PS3 Nat 2 help

[upnorth]

The line can carry two entirely separate signals as long as they are different frequency. The digital is not riding the same signal frequency as the analog. It is not the type of lines that define the signal, the line just carries the signal, it doesn't care what it is carrying. It is the transceiver and receiver that controls what is going on.

You look at an enterprise wiring closet and most often they are using the same cabling for data, analog phone and digital phone, the wire doesn't care what it carries it just carries it.

[spearchucker]

It is not the type of lines that define the signal, the line just carries the signal, it doesn't care what it is carrying.

....

You look at an enterprise wiring closet and most often they are using the same cabling for data, analog phone and digital phone, the wire doesn't care what it carries it just carries it.

[spearchucker]

Here are a couple links for you to read.

Read Me

Read Me too

The digital in DSL has more to do with the type of information that it is carrying than the type of signals it uses. DSL is without a doubt mo-ing and dem-ing an analog signal. It is all RF whether it goes over a wire or through the air like TV and radio.

There is no way that a straight digital signal is going to make it through along with the voice data without modulation and demodulation.

[upnorth]

This says it all. If it was still using analog, it would ASL not DSL. Well ASL is pretty much what dial up was.

Quote:

Digital Subscriber Line is a technology that assumes digital data does not require change into analog form and back. Digital data is transmitted to your computer directly as digital data and this allows the phone company to use a much wider bandwidth for transmitting it to you. Meanwhile, if you choose, the signal can be separated so that some of the bandwidth is used to transmit an analog signal so that you can use your telephone and computer on the same line and at the same time

[spearchucker]

Decided to leave this little part out? Talk to an electrical engineer and ask them if I am right. You can't rewrite the laws of physics. Or maybe you will come up with some link that says you can?

Quote:

Contrary to its name, while a DSL circuit provides digital service, it is actually not a digital signal. The underlying technology of transport across DSL facilities uses high-frequency sinusoidal carrier wave modulation, which is an analog signal transmission. A DSL circuit terminates at each end in a modem which modulates patterns of bits into certain high-frequency impulses for transmission to the opposing modem. Signals received from the far-end modem are demodulated to yield a corresponding bit pattern that the modem retransmits, in digital form, to its interfaced equipment, such as a computer, router, switch, etc. Unlike traditional dial-up modems, which modulate bits into signals in the 300–3400 Hz baseband (voice service), DSL modems modulate frequencies from 4000 Hz to as high as 4 MHz. This frequency band separation enables DSL service and plain old telephone service (POTS) to coexist on the same copper pair facility. Generally, higher bit rate transmissions require a wider frequency band, though the ratio of bit rate to bandwidth are not linear due to significant innovations in digital signal processing and digital modulation methods.

[LwnmwnMan2]

No offense, but you guys are slightly off track from the original topic.

[upnorth]

No offense, but you guys are slightly off track from the original topic.

I agree!!

[delcecchi]

Decided to leave this little part out? Talk to an electrical engineer and ask them if I am right. You can't rewrite the laws of physics. Or maybe you will come up with some link that says you can?

Well, I am an electrical engineer and I know a little about high speed signaling. I didn't see anything in that explanation that violated the laws of physics. What part were you talking about? And which law? Shannon?

[upnorth]

I am going with Lawnmower, this thread has got way off topic and I admit I am part of that. We need to either drop this or start another thread.

[spearchucker]

I am going with Lawnmower, this thread has got way off topic and I admit I am part of that. We need to either drop this or start another thread.

Taking the easy way out instead admitting I am right!

I don't think there is anything wrong with it getting off track since lawn pretty much has his problem solved for now. Sorry if it ticked others off.

[spearchucker]

Well, I am an electrical engineer and I know a little about high speed signaling. I didn't see anything in that explanation that violated the laws of physics. What part were you talking about? And which law? Shannon?

It may not violate laws of physics, but it just doesn't work the way upnorth claims.

Del, will you agree that even though DSL is named Digital Subscriber Line, it still carries the digital information using analog transmission means? In other words the digital data is modulated onto an analog carrier frequency and sent down the line (voice at a lower freq) and then it is demodulated from the carrier freq to recover the data.

Upnorth is claiming that it is a pure digital signal that is modulated but doesn't have to be de-modulated. Not possible and doesn't work that way. I not trying to argue, just to argue, nut Upnorth has the basic concept of how DSL work, but doesn't understand the underlying technology.

[delcecchi]

Sure, the analog voltage on the twisted pair is modulated to carry the digital data. It's been a while since I looked but I believe they divide the available bandwidth into 4kHz chunks with a carrier that is modulated in each chunk. Each baud, or cycle of the carrier can transmit several bits by using multilevel modulation sort of like an old 56k modem did in the voice band. The number of bits in each channel is determined by stuff like noise and attenuation. There are many channels, some are up and some down going. All this is adjusted on the fly.

I presume the data is encoded using modern techniques such turbo or Viterbi.

Like modern disk drives it is amazing to me how much they can do with a crummy twisted pair a couple miles long that was designed for sending voice.

Given all the equalization and signal processing I'm not sure I would call it digital anymore, even if most of the work is done digitally. It is mind boggling to me.

[spearchucker]

Del, thanks for the validation. I think the more channels that are available, the higher speed DSL you have. I think each channel is capable of 1.5Mb/s, so that is where that value always comes from with DSL. More channels = more speed. They use some pretty advanced multi-level modulation schemes.

[LwnmwnMan2]

It's not solved, I just haven't been home.

Spent the last 78 hours either in the plow truck or tractor moving snow.

Hopefully I can sleep in a bed for 5-6 hours before the phone starts ringing again.

[pureinsanity]

It's not solved, I just haven't been home.

Spent the last 78 hours either in the plow truck or tractor moving snow.

Hopefully I can sleep in a bed for 5-6 hours before the phone starts ringing again.

I went and helped a friend out. I was out Friday night at 11 and didn't get done till 7am Sunday morning. Only got a short power hour of a nap.

Should be a nice paycheck! I made more in one full day than I make in a weeks worth of work.

[LwnmwnMan2]

I'm not sure if I want to visit this topic again, for fear the discussion about whatever it was other than the original topic will heat up again, but here goes...

Right now the PS3 works as good as it ever has, running wireless through the Siemens router.

My biggest 2 complaints are (a) my internet is noticably slower now, rather than when I was running the Speedstream 5200 and my Belkin N+ router, and ( I can no longer access the internet in my pole building, even with my range extenders.

If I turn the Siemens into a bridged, and I move my desktop upstairs, do I then hardwire into the Belkin router? And if I bridge the Siemens then I plug everything into my router, correct?

And just have 1 wire running from the Siemens to my router?

[upnorth]

I take it the Siemens is the one supplied by frontier?

It is hard to picture what is really what here.

In the network world(enterprise networking and somewhat different than home) I work in a bridge is very much like a switch. So if that is the case you just be passing data from the DSL modem to the next device so it should work. The way I envision it the belkin would do the routing and the Seimens would just pass the data and if nothing else changed your extender should work.

[LwnmwnMan2]

The Siemens is a DSL modem / router combo supplied by Frontier. The router is "b/g".

If I bridge it, basically turning it into a switch, then run it to my Belkin router which in an "N", then I should get faster speeds for my wireless parts of the network, correct?

Right now it SEEMS slower than my dialup used to be.

[upnorth]

In theory yes, N is much faster(upto 300 mb rather than 54 mb) than b/g I also believe it has a longer range too.. That is your internal network. I have never worked on a Siemens router and have no idea if if can truly be ran in bridge mode.

But you have to remember that the speed of your internet download can easily be affected by how many people are online.

[pureinsanity]

Lawnie, As soon as you get another carrier available get rid of frontier!

As for your network, you should just lay some cat5. Make a mini network for your home. Than you can stream media super fast!

[LwnmwnMan2]

This morning I couldn't sleep, so I got up and worked on this for about 5 minutes.

P.I. - I started your steps from page 2, but as soon as I did the hard reset, the screen came up to reconfigure the modem, and in the bottom right there was a spot to manually reconfigure.

I clicked that, and when it came to "wireless" I just clicked disable. I unplugged the computer from the modem and had no wireless signal.

I then plugged the router in, gained signal, and walked to the corners of the house where I was having issues before and I seem to have signal, with the speed I had when I was running my Speedstream 5200 with the router.

Now for the sun to come up so I can work on getting my access points to work and get the signal out to the pole barn.

[pureinsanity]

Glad things are working somewhat! Keep us up to date so we can assist you further

[LwnmwnMan2]

Everything is working out to the pole barn.

Now to try the PS3, but since that sits 3" from the router, that won't be an issue.

The last thing I'm doing is buying a new desktop, just the tower. I'm going to put it in the entertainment center and hook directly to the TV through HDMI. We're going to hardwire from the wire to the desktop.

We have an HD video camera so we're going to start doing some video editing as well as other stuff since everything will be hooked together.

I can still use Logmein.com on the laptop if I need to access the work data on the desktop while the kids are playing or watching TV.

[pureinsanity]

Nice sounds like things are working out! I am curious what nat type you will have when you DMZ your router

[spearchucker]

I can still use Logmein.com on the laptop if I need to access the work data on the desktop while the kids are playing or watching TV.

Glad you have things up and running.

FYI Logmein.com may be overkill for filesharing on a LAN, and is intrusive to the other user of the desktop. Setup Windows file sharing and you can access your data over your LAN just like it was on your laptop and the desktop user will never know. This also will let you backup files between the laptop and desktop.