downrigger purchase

[Hoffer]

Hi all-

Another downrigger question.

I have finally decided to pull the trigger and buy a downrigger.

I have seen the cannon "lake troll" and cannon "uni-troll".

The first one is about 130.00 and the 2nd one is about 270.00

What is the main difference for the extra money and would you guys recommend spending the extra money on the more expensive one?

Last, do any of you mount yours on a "gimbal" mount - and is this hard to put in the boat? I have a 1650 fishhawk with a smaller gunnel - and am hoping to simply put in the gimbal mount holder so I can take the downrigger off and on easily.

Any other advice that you might have as well is greatly appreciated!!

Thanks-

Mark

[Hoffer]

OK...darn maybe a setback here.

I took off the "sidewall" that attaches to the edge of the boat on the inside so I could get at the gunnel and see what it looked like.

Although the top of the gunnel is 3 inches wide...the inside part is NOT that wide.

The sides of the gunnel comme down and that takes up space on the under side where the backer would go.

So, this ready made backer i was going to purchase that would work with the 3.5 inch track will be too wide to fit in on the bottom.

so....if I used some washers that would fit in the space...would I still get enough support for the whole thing that the downrigger wouldnt rip off the gunnels?

[Surface Tension]

If you used fender washers and they at least covered part of the support then that should be OK.

Or cut the block to fit.

I think your over evaluating things.

Its not like were asking you to do a space walk to fix a broken solar panel with a monkey wrench.

If you lived closer I'd mount them for you.

[Hoffer]

Hey Surface...Your right!!

But keep in mind my talent for fixing things is about a 1 out of 10!

However, I have a neighbor who is a russian engineer and pretty handy. I am just asking all the questions cause i have to buy this stuff over the internet - and want to be sure I am going to get the right stuff - cause returns are a pain through the mail!!

i think I am pretty set and am ordering stuff this weekend. Only thing is they are all out of the riser bracket - but are making more this week and i should have it in by the time I leave. So, for now i can order the track and get that installed - thats the main issue anyway.

Thanks!

Hoffer

[Surface Tension]

A Russian Engineer you say. Well Well. You won't be alone when the Russians lock onto the Space Shuttle.. If your tether breaks on the space walk you have a back up Russian with a jet-pack.

Now I really wish you lived closed because I'd like to come with. I could met you for a pickup but just my luck my rocket would be headed toward Uranus and then I'd never get back hoooooommme.!

Then again I might find Intellect Beings there, more so then I. Launch at 0100(Closing Hour)

[Northlander]

I will take some pics of mine later and have Frank post them. Its very simple and I didnt use any backing just long stainless bolts and washers. Its the cleanest and easiest way to do it on your boat. Plus super easy on and off. Plus when you dont have a rigger on the track you can mount a rod holder or whatever in the track or just slide the spacer back in it.

[Hoffer]

Northlander-

Thanks!!

I am for sure going with the track system. I emailed the customer service people at the HSOforum I posted earlier for their track brand. If I dont go with a backer - they recommended that I go with a 12 inch length of track because it has 6 bolt holes rather than 4 with the 6 inch. However, i dont know if I want to add that much to the back - I am thinking the 6 inch would be fine. How long of a track do you have and how many bolts? what brand? i saw cannon actually has a track sysetm they sell - but then I couldnt find any of their riser/mounts that went along with their track system. This other place makes their own tracks and their own risers and they are also rotating. They are a bit more in price than others I have seen but they look really high quality. Im going to put this on the back gunnel and am going to buy a mount that is either 4 or 6 inches...would you go with 4 or 6? Again, like Surface tension said - this isnt rocket science - but I have to order this off the HSOforum - and I want to get it all right the first time around so i dont have to do returns. I am heading out to Cabellas in an hour or so to buy the rigger unit. I was looking at the cannons and then the scottys. I was going to go with the canon easit troll - but then I found this walker brand - and it got great reviews. Thanks again-Hoffer

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0013620016341a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Products&QueryText=downriggers&sort=all&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23

[Hoffer]

By the way...as mentioned - heading to cabellas. If you guys can get this in time - or even post something later - could you list the bare minimums of other stuff I am going to need to get started with the downrigging?

It sounds like there are many different types of releases and brands. Do you have a favorite - keeping in mind I may be trolling lures with big lips that already generally get down to 25 feet on their own.

Does it really matter what type of weight? Should it be one shape or another - or do they all generally work the same?

I generally fast troll with 10 pound diamater, 40 pound test Stren brand superline that is round. Would this work as well for my downrigging with a mono leader of say 6 feet? Do you just use a swivel to tie the mono leader to the main line?

Any other equipement to just give me a general start or dos and donts would be appreciated!!

[Northlander]

Do get good stuff to start rather than buying cheap and having to replace later. Go as good as you can afford. Downrigger set up is expensive to do right. You can get buy on the cheap but it usually looks cheap and isnt as functional as if done right.

I would start with this.

2-12" Traxstech tracks $37 X 2

2 sets of end caps for them $30

2 Traxstech swivel bases/or canon about $93 x 2

20# mono for your riger rods

pinch style releases are cheaper but roamer or blacks are also good

whatever # balls your rigger can handle 12# if they will hold them

Spoons

Swivels/snaps

Good reels and rods Rigger rods can be found for as little as $15 reels like a Diawa Acudepth line counter are good for starters. Diawa Sealines are what I think is the best bang for the buck at about $80

Side cutters should always be in the boat when running riggers in case you snag a ball up and have to cut the cable quick. You dont want this to happen it can be real bad!

Go to Marine Generals HSOforum and look at all their track systems, backers etc.

To answer your ? I ran the 12" traxtechs with step pad inserts when riggers are off and 3" lift and swivel base on that.

[Hoffer]

Northlander-

awesome!

great!

I am just going with 1 downrigger set up to get started.

I am surprised you recommend mono? I was thinking one of the superlines would be recommended?

I wil probably just be getting a "medium" priced manuel downrigger - the ones that take just up to 8 pound balls.

I will look for those releases you mentioned.

Will report back later - thanks again for the advice!!!!!

[Hoffer]

Northlander-

By the way...just went to the marine general HSOforum. The track system they have and mounting brackets that you recommnded that they have their is the SAME brand as the one I was looking for - but I was going directly through that companys HSOforum. They told me they were out of stock for a week on the mounts - but I am going to call marine general directly - and maybe they have some in supply? They look like a great system!!

Just heading to Cabellas - will report back!

[Hoffer]

Well, just got back from Cabellas.

I had my hands on the cannon easi troll - but the salesperson talked me into going a step up to the cannon "uni troll 5"

It has a stronger boom and more line. It was 40 dollars more - but the kicker was that it came with a free 8 pound ball - and they were selling for anout 22 bucks. So, for less than 20 dollars difference I got a little better rigger.

I just went with the standard cannon release. It was black in color and was around 20 bucks. They had some other ones there that were less that looked as good or better - but I went with cannon since I figured they must make a decent product.

I think these are going to be fun! The saleperson was also showing me a release that you can connect further up the wire and you can actually run 2 rods off of one rigger if you have another rod holder. So that may be a great option down the line too.

The only thing is right now - I have spent enough for awhile - and am hoping I can do downrigging with my normal 7 foot rods and reels I use? Do you guys think these will suffice for a few trips until I break down and buy a true longer downrigginr rod and a reel with a line counter?

Cabellas also had a 20.00 off coupon if you spend more than 120.00 so overall it was a pretty good deal.

I ordered my tracks and riser mounting bracket with the swivel - so once I get those on I should be in business

[Steve Foss]

am hoping I can do downrigging with my normal 7 foot rods and reels I use? Do you guys think these will suffice for a few trips until I break down and buy a true longer downrigginr rod and a reel with a line counter?

Yes, if they aren't too stiff they'll be just fine for now.

BTW, you can get fine 8-9 foot downrigger rods for cheap. I just picked up a pair of Daiwa downrigger rods at Northwest Outlet in Superior a week or two ago on sale for $15 each.

Some guys who REALLY want to know to the exact foot how much line is out behind their downrigger releases go with line counter reels, but they aren't necessary for trout/salmon downrigging. It really doesn't matter if your lure is 29 feet or 30 feet behind the ball.

[Hoffer]

Steve, yeah my 7 footers are just mediums with alot of bend. hopefully they will work for now. but I may look for a few 8 or 9 footers at that price thats hard to beat! Did you buy 2 piece ones at that length??

also, for the walleyes - how much line out behind the ball is the norm??

In the past I have taken a sharpie out and dotted my mono every 10 feet so i could try that to at least get close.

Last question...for walleyes I have some real favorite deep divers that I use. What I really am trying to do with this downrigger stuff (aside from being able to go real deep for trout) is to get my deep divers down an extra 10 to 15 feet to just get into that 35 to 40 foot strike zone where all the bait fish are in this particular lake.

But never having used downriggers before - its hard for me to believe that these deep divers with the larger lips wont be tripping my release all the time??

I would think there is going to be a lot of torque??

Any advice on that part guys?

[Steve Foss]

Walleyes? You fish walleyes? Sheesh!!!

Back to the important stuff. Downrigger rods almost always are two-piece rods. A deep-diving crank with a big lip will of course exert more pressure, and you'll have to put the line farther back into the pinch release to compensate for that.

I'll let the walleye slobs answer the walleye questions. I don't bother with those stupid fish.

[Northlander]

If your going to fish eyes with riggers make sure you run a longer lead back off the ball. Walleyes arent as stupid as lakers and salmon and are ball shy.

Seriously though you can run anything on a rigger as long as you have the correct line and release. I dont use deep divers on my riggers because I can get smaller baits deep with riggers. No need for deep divers unless you want that certain profile or action. Also dont forget about spoons for walleyes. Much under used method in most areas.

Heck running big flashers and dodgers put alot of tork into a release and they hold fine using them. As long as you set the release or put the line far enough back in a release your fine. Problem is finding just how far is far enough and how far is too far. Not enough you get false releases and too far and you dont get any and maybe just see it in the rods.

The rods Steve talks of are Diawa wilderness rods and they are a ok rod for starting out and are pretty durable. They can be found for $15-$20. They are pretty beefy though and not much feel to them so fighting fish on them isnt the best experience compared to less beefy handled rods. I use them for dypsie rods because they are cheap, durable and I dont need feel in a dypsie rod.

Cabelas has their downrigger rods on sale as well as trolling and leadcore rods plus free shipping. Decent rods at a very good price right now.

As far as line counters get them. You would be amazed at how many times I could get fish 40' back but not anything less. For lakers most times I run 25' to 50' off the ball. Deeper I go the closer to the ball I run. For eyes I like to get back further but have still caught them back 45'.

[Hoffer]

Northlander-

Thanks for the added tips!

Sounds like this will be alot of trial and error and practice- but it should be fun!

I would love to be able to use my deeper divers due to their profile that I really like. I also did some research and was surprised to find that as you mentioned many people are using spoons with great luck for eyes!

The added bonus I guess is that in the area I will be fishing this Fall - the larger norts should be down deep and should take a spoon too - so I am for sure going to try that method as well.

Cant wait to get all this set up and try it in a few weeks!

[Hoffer]

PS

But Steve I see you guide for Pike too!

I am really hoping that the Pike will also be around in this area i will be trolling this Fall. This area hols bigger eyes and Pike down deep. Its a area of 60 foot water in an otherwise on the average shallow lake. The rest of the main lake is on average only 20 feet - but there is an area that gets deep real fast from shore and holds all kinds of schools of cisco. Both the eyes and the larger Norts hang out down deep here! I know for a fact cause the last 2 years I have caught two 10 pound eyes and many nice Pike - and my group has been coming up to this area for over 40 years and never caught an eye much over 5 pounds...but they never tried down deep. My prior method has been fast trolling deep diving plugs and using rod holders - but I am still limited to about 25 feet max - and I am banking on that extra 15 feet or so putting me on bigger fish and more often!

[Northlander]

I sent Frank pics to post and hopefully that will give you a better idea of how you should lay out your track system. If you e-mail me I can send them directly back to you with more if you like. My e-mail is below.

[Hoffer]

Hey Northlander-

You have mail!

[Steve Foss]

Long post coming!

Yep, Daiwa Wilderness rods for $15. I also have a pair of Daiwa Heartland downrigger rods (about $30 on sale if my memory is correct), and both are just fine. There's no rod I'd call a downrigger rod that gives you the sense of tug-of-war you get from a good graphite rod with stiff butt and a fast action tip. Running superbraid on those long whippy downrigger rods helps you feel a bit more in touch with the fish.

I've also got a GLoomis 9-foot downrigger rod that retails for $250, and it's no more fun to fight a fish on that than on the el cheapos. And you never know when a guest in your boat is going to blow up a rod.

For me, the Heartland and Wilderness rods aren't strong/stiff enough for running Dipsies. I've got a couple heavy action 8- and 9-foot rods with line counter reels that I use for Dipsies. Just a personal preference. And you'll find lots of difference of opinion among downrigging/Dipsy folks, because personal preference runs pretty strong. Though my Dipsy rods are heavy action (one is a Berkley E-Cat No. 3 and one a Lamiglass), they are slow taper, so they still load up really nice under all the pressure a Dipsy exerts.

Like Northlander, I also tend to run longer lines off my downriggers for lakers. The only time I run closer than 30 or so feet to the ball is when I've got a spread of attractors on unused downriggers (cowbells and dodgers with no lures attached). Then I'll run my lure 15 feet or so behind the ball so it's right in there with the attractors. Otherwise, the shallower my balls are, the farther behind the ball the lure runs.

It's not unusual for me to run laker lures 75-100 feet behind the balls.

If you decide to go with a line counter reel, Okuma makes some good ones that are not expensive. You can find them on sale for $40 pretty often, sometimes even cheaper on clearance. I've got Okuma and Ambassadeur line counters for my Dipsies. I only use Dipsies as a last resort because even when they are tripped and you're fighting the fish, you've got all the dead weight of that Dipsy between you and the fish. I prefer Jet Divers for trolling aids when I'm in a boat with someone who does not have downriggers. (Google Jet Diver and take a look).

BTW, for inland lakers, there's absolutely no need to go with a reel bigger than an Ambassadeur 5500 series. I like the 6500 series because of the clicker and how it prevents overruns when dropping the downrigger ball with the reel in freespool, but you can set the antireverse tension on the 5500 (or any good baitcaster that doesn't have a clicker) so it won't overrun. In my opinion, if you've got a reel or two with the line capacity of a 5500, the reel is the last thing on your list of tackle additions you'll want to buy as you get into inland downrigging. And if you're rigging for inland 'eyes and pike, which you'll usually pursue at shallower depths than lakers, line capacity is even less an issue. I'm not saying don't buy a new reel or 5, I'm just saying I think you have more important priorities if budget is an issue.

For inland lakers, the aggressive action of a big-lipped deep diving crank doesn't deliver good results day in and day out. Over time, I've found that the original floating/diving Raps, Husky jerk-baits and Countdown Raps do better. Also day in and day out, on Burntside, where I do almost all my open water laker fishing, spoons outperform cranks by far. I never bother with a minnowbait unless I've got at least three rods out.

BTW, I only guide pike through the ice. I do find some big pike on Burntside in May and June when I've got enough rods in the boat to put out a deep diving crank on a long line. Once in awhile it yields a big laker, and if I'm in 50 FOW or less (which I pretty often am that time of year), you never know when Mr. Bigpike will come calling on a crank.