2 Dogs - Too Aggresive

[Urban]

I have two plott hounds. One 3 1/2, the other about 9 months. Lately when they get playing it often results in a fight with both dogs biting each other face, ear area. 5 mn later they will be laying on each other sleeping, or back to playing again.

It seems they won't stop fighting unless I grab them and give them a good dominant shouting/laying over on their side type thing.

Should I be concerned? I know dogs are dogs... but they are actually trying to hurt each other (blood is common) when they get in fight mode.

Could it just be the puppy coming of age? She is already bigger than the older one.

Neither has ever shown aggression towards people, but they are much more aggressive/dominant than most dogs we have them socialize with.

Basically what are the general rules you use to get your dogs more submissive with other dogs? Mine bite other dogs way too hard, but people they don't. I could go on...

Anyone know much about the breed? Online info is limited. They've been great outside of this intense mode they get into.

OH and YES I EXERCISE THEM MORE THAN ANY OTHER DOG I HAVE KNOWN. Minimum of 1hr a day.. often times up to 3hrs. Hunting, Biking, hiking, running, snowshoe, xc ski ect...

[Urban]

Update: Can anyone relate here, or comment?

Today both were playing in a friends backyard with 3 other golden retrievers. They ended up wrestling with each other (just my two) and as I was inside getting food they exploded into a fight. The youngest had a completely locked jaw grip on our older dogs neck. I actually pried them apart with my foot kicking... in the meantime... The older dog big at our youngest and gave her some very deep gouges on her forehead, sliced her ear, and cut her cheek and nose. I think we will have to take her in for a couple of stitches.

Long story but the way the younger one reacts to any aggression, or warning from our older dog is completely unacceptable. She won't stop fighting unlike our older, she doesn't release her grip. Its like she is trying to seriously injure the other dog.

After 4 months of a perfect dog, and 3 recent bad ones... we are going to return her to the shelter we got her from.

[Urban]

[Ryan_V]

boy, after that, I would reconsider taking her back to a shelter, someone else is going to end up with the same problem, and it may hurt their children. I would lean twards putting the dog down. The behavior is there, you really don't want to push it off on someone else. It's sad, but think about it.

[Ralph Wiggum]

The older dog big at our youngest and gave her some very deep gouges on her forehead, sliced her ear, and cut her cheek and nose. I think we will have to take her in for a couple of stitches.

As tough as it would be, if it were mine, that dog would be in the ground...NOW.

[Urban]

Isn't it a natural reaction for a dog being locked on by the throat to bite at the other dog to get it off? I don't blame our older dog for nipping at ears/face when it's throat was locked on.

I've never seen a dog fight like our younger, even though she didn't do the damage in the end, if no one was around who knows if she would have let go at all? That seems worse than the bite and release at ears and face.

This is a very tough situation as the young one has really become part of the family. Keep in mind we've had the older one for just over 3 years and had minimal aggressive behavior, only when another very alpha dog challenges her, or a puppy once got in her food bowl while she was eating. In both of these instances, there was nothing more than a .5cm slice in the other dogs ear.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Just so we're clear, did it bite the other dog or your kid? I was under the impression when you said it bit at your youngest that you meant kid. I have no tolerance whatsoever for dog-to-human aggression. If it happens once, it will happen again.

If you really want to keep these dogs, I think you need to get help from a dog agression specialist. Getting advice online isn't going to cut it.

[Walleye Widower]

I would suggest getting rid of one of the dogs too, unless you are ready to do some serious work with them, it will be a long process that will require a lot of your time.

Are you willing to keep the two separated, as in one in a crate\kennel while the other is out and vice versa? They should not be allowed out at the same time for a very, very long time.

And ya, I agree with Ralph, you won’t get the kind of help you need on the internet. There is only one forum I know of where you can get some advice to at least help you identify the some of the problems you have and maybe a few suggestions, there is a lot of people on it with problems like you are describing. I am sure there is dog behaviorists in the Cities.

Don’t put the dog down please. This is an owner problem not a dog problem. Sorry for being so blunt…

[Urban]

Sorry I should use names. Kenya the older dog, big Kashi, the younger dog multiple times, while Kashi had the deathlock on her neck.

Just went to the vet to clean things up, no stitches needed. The vet seems to have the "don't give up on your dog" attitude.

I don't want to get into the fiasco of pro dog training, relapse, fights, more $$$ for training.

[Urban]

There is only one forum I know of where you can get some advice to at least help you identify the some of the problems you have and maybe a few suggestions, there is a lot of people on it with problems like you are describing.

What is the forum?

[Walleye Widower]

[Note From Admin, Please Read Forum Policy Before Posting Again, Thank You]

[Ralph Wiggum]

Sorry I should use names. Kenya the older dog, big Kashi, the younger dog multiple times, while Kashi had the deathlock on her neck.

Thanks for clearing it up! That's a much different situation than I originally thought.

[JayinMN]

To answer your original question, you cannot train a dog to be submissive around other dogs, its part of their temperament.

As already stated with out a trainer/behaviorist observing whats going on its hard to diagnose the situation online. This may be a dominance problem or it may not. Dominance does not equal agression, something else is triggering this behavior.

You said that the dogs are rescues, chances of them really being a plott hound are slim in Minnesota. Realistically, especially the darker dog, is probably some type of pit/bulldog/mastiff mix that the shelter misidentified or purposely marked down as a different breed to increase its chance at adoption. When these dogs engage in a fight they do not give up readily and they try to kill their opponent even if they were best friends ten minutes ago. They have been bred for centuries for guarding and fighting, the willingness to submit to an opponent has been bred out of them and once engaged they will not stop even if the other dog submits. Get them out of fight mode and they will usually be friends again till something else sets them off. Playing with other dogs often results in fights because when the other dog yelps, growls or gets knocked off its feet it can trigger them to start fighting. The young dog is only 9 months old, these fights are going to get a lot worse and if you plan on keeping her I would research how to use a break stick.

As already stated its going to take a lot of commitment to keep these two dogs together. You will need to keep them separated for a while until you establish leadership and verbal control over both. You should research how to maintain pack structure in your home, 2 dogs is a pack. Once that is done, you could start working with them together in the same area. You may get to the point that they can be off leash in the same place under your control again while supervised. I would stop them from engaging in any rough housing from now on. There is not going to be a quick fix to the problem, your really going to be looking at a life style change. I can't stress this enough, do not leave them alone together, or you will end up with a huge vet bill or worse yet a dead dog.

[Urban]

We actually had a DNA test done on the lighter colored one, Kenya... She came out at mostly Italian Greyhound, Huskie, Lab,... Because Plott didn't have a DNA base we weren't sure if that is what a Plott really was? We adopted her from Colorado when we were living there.

The second was from North Central Wisconsin, the humane society said Plotts are fairly common amongst bear hunters up there, though they were very disgusted with the treatment they see, and methods of hunting in their experience.

We are looking at returning Kashi (the darker one), they are a NO KILL shelter.

[Urban]

Well... Kashi the youngest was a great companion for 4 months. We took her to the Humane Society as we just thought it best for us.

[PoorWordUsage] cute and easy to love. I feel like I just lost a major family member.