what does it take to flood some crops?

[shnelson]

I always hear that flooded crops are all the rage, I have yet to experience it but may have an opportunity if I chose to pursue it. That all depends on how much blood, sweat and tears are involved and I was hoping you guys may be able to provide me with some basic answers or resources to check out.

I may have access to a couple hundred acres of land that my family has leased, it would basically come down to an agreement from the farmer that is leasing the land for his crops but I don't think that will be too much of an issue. I wouldn't be looking to flood very much of this at all, just a big enough hole to entice some ducks to stop by.

What crops are best for flooding, and can you flood any field that has a low spot? There is an area on the parcel that even drops into a small pond (which sits pretty dry thanks to our lack of rain the previous years) that might be a good starting point.

How tough is it to flood & is it usually just a sandpoint well? Driven by generator? What's the average annual cost to flood a small section?

If anyone has any answers it would be greatly appreciated. What I'm looking for most is to better grasp the whole concept of a flooded crop field, and what kind of efforts one should expect to partake in for success.

[WaveWacker]

This is not an easy or inexpensive feat. #1 as you stated, you need a natural depression in a field, which sounds like you'd be able to find on 200 or so acres. Then even if you had a reliable water source, in MN (and other places) 99% of the time if a farmer is capable of planting in these depressions, there is tile in the ground under it to drain it. That's how they were able to plant it in the first place. If you leave it and just add water, it probalby will drain out in no time. You'd have to install some sort of stop log in-line water control device so that you would be able to add water and have it stay around. Then pull the logs and allow it to drain out so that crops could be planted the next year.

Now a reliable water source. If you're lucky there would be a ditch close by in which you could pump water out of. If not, your looking at a well. I'm not going to promote the use of well or aquifer water for filling a duck pond. You could get lucky and have an Oct. that we had last year and have nature fill it. That all depends on the size of the watershed feeding the basin.

It's possible, but no where close to an easy task.

[kobear]

It can be as easy as setting a bowling ball on the tile inlet if it's non-perf tile.

And if it rains.

An okay plan, given reasonable soil types and a fall like last year. Once the farmer has harvested strategically plug tile intakes either physically or else install risers that will allow the water to enter once it reaches a certain pool height.

Those small basins will fill right up given rainfall, they are drained wetlands you know.

After season pull the plug.

Endless adaptations are available. Millet is great flooded.

[tracker x-2]

ko bear has it. I have had best luck with standing corn, but im sure you know to always check with the farmer before plugging his tile. --->

[LandDr]

Nelson...great post and great to get people thinking about these options. I work with people all the time on waterfowl options and we need more demonstration sites so people can see how it works. If you want, provide me with the Township, Range and Section number and I will send you an aerial photo with a soils overlay that will really help with planning and designing. I will also map out some areas for you to consider.

[Quackaddict9]

If you can't get the owner to flood the field you are leasing nor does not work out. You can drive around find some rice fields, they are hard to beat...once it starts to flood it gets deadly and you will be in for a fun hunt. Other than that finding water sheets in fields close to staging roosts can be good.

[DUCKAHOLIC]

i heard if you take wild rice and spread it on a slough it will sink and grow the following year? is that true? if so how to do i aquire wild rice?

[TylerS]

Might want to check regulations about baiting. I know in some states (N.D. for example) hunting an unharvested field, even if flooded, is illegal. Heck, hunting regrowth in a stubble field technically is baiting. F'd up, I know...but I'd hate to see someone get burned just because they saw it on TV.

[LandDr]

Wild rice...yes, simply take small amounts of seed in your hand and throw up in the air over the area you want to seed. It requires 12 to 36 inches of water depth so don't throw the rice out too deep. "Spring" rice is already stored and "cold stratified" and ready to plant in the spring. "Fall" rice has just been harvested and has not been cold stratified...therefore it needs to go thru the winter to cold stratify to be able to germinate in the spring. Wild Rice, Sago and Celery are all native aquatic plants that can be planted and hunted over and "not" considered baiting. You can find rice at HabitatNOW.com

Hunting flooded crops, whether flooded manually or artificially "is not" baiting as per the USFW service who oversee and regulate migratory species. I got tired of hearing COs say that if someone artificially floods a field that it is baiting...however, landowners all over the west coast, east coast and southern USA flood crops "legally". I felt the COs in the midwest have been voicing their "opinion" rather than fact. So I personally contacted the USFW service in Virginia. They sent me their "official" position on baiting which they stated that there is no difference between hunting over artificially flooded fields and naturally flooded fields. They also coverd the fact the crop can not be mowed, chopped, knocked down, etc., but just normal farming practices such as standing crops, harvested crops, tilled fields after harvest, etc. There is a copy of the email and their comments at the web site above as well.

When I submitted this information to a CO in Stearns Co, he all of a sudden seemed to not respond to me any more. This information needs to get out there and the opinion needs to be replaced with fact. There is more and more interest on this subject and I think it is a matter of time that we get more demonstrations sites out there and more fact.

TylerS...have you ever seen that in "print" or in their regulations that ND considers it illegal to hunt in flooded standing crop fields?

My word of advice is to never take someone's (CO or DNR, etc) verbal comment but to insist on getting it in writting or a copy of the regulation. You would be amazed how often it can not be backed up. But if it is, then we can work from there.

[InTheNorthwoods]

What does it take to flood crops?

Bad luck.

[Bryce]

TylerS...have you ever seen that in "print" or in their regulations that ND considers it illegal to hunt in flooded standing crop fields?

I was thinking the same thing as you landdr. Tyler may be thinking of the trespass law that states unharvested fields do not need to be posted.

[LandDr]

Bryce...that is correct. Most states have that trespass law that crop fields do not need to be posted. That was a big discussion a few years ago whether CRP was "crop" or not and if it needed to be posted. I believe it was determined CRP is crop and does not need to be posted since it is an agricultural program and maintains a crop history. But that is a different topic.

[Bryce]

Sorry for the confusion Landdr. I agree with you that flooded crop is huntable unless Tyler can come up with something in print. I reworded my post to clear up my thoughts.

[LandDr]

States can be "more" restrictive in their regulations. For example, the Feds can set the recommended harvest but states can be more restrictive or even the case with spinning wing decoys.

ND could have something like that which would be more restrictive...but I would definately want to see it in print. Most of what I have seen over the years is state people "talking" and not actually knowing the regulation or interpreting it incorrectly.

I asked the CO that I was dealing with to bring it up at future meetings to get everyone on the same page (with what the Feds wrote to me to clarrify that artificially flooding crop fields, standing or harvested, is not baiting), but I did not receive any response back from him after I provided him with that information. I more or less was dismissed.

If anyone is hunting over flooded crops, I would print out that info on that web site to have it with you (put it with your license) and have the Federal USFW phone number in Virginia handy to call them if needed. Then you will be prepared to defend yourself and require the CO to achknowledge it. I know that is a lot to do...but this is pioneering stuff in the midwest and we need to do what we need to do.

[MN Greenheads]

You can definately hunt flooded crops. I have done such at a club along the Illinois river. It takes money and management but it's silly easy to shoot a limit day after day once the birds find it.Personally it isn't much of a challenge. They use short corn down there specifically designed for the purpose of flooding for hunting. They use huge pumps and the cost is very high to run them not to mention the cost of the land and planting short corn. You can hunt flooded crops as long as you don't manipulate them i.e. knock them down.

landdr probably knows how to pull off the details of doing something like this.

To do it right probably takes what anything does lots of $$$, planning, work, failure and adjustment to failure but all I can say is when I hunted flooded crops It was like shooting at a game preserve where they release birds and you shoot until you can't afford any more.

[LandDr]

Greenheads...amazing how much of this type of management goes on to the east and west and south of us, but "they" have got the majority of the people in the Midwest believing that it is baiting so we don't manage for waterfowl like that. I think the next 5 years will see huge changes in this.

There has been comments on how expensive flooded crops would be. In some cases that is correct...when extensive earth work is needed and water pumps, it can get expensive. But I personally believe we have excellent landscapes, especially in MN, to flood crops very cheaply.

For example, if you can work with a farmer to plug the tile after harvest in a small depressional area that would not impact or back water up on any neighbors, that can be done VERY cheaply. All it might take is putting a solid PVC pipe down the tile intake and push it down to the level of the water that you want to maintain in the depression. This will allow the underground tile to still function and allow flow thru from upgradiant, but hold any surface waters for some duration. Then you need to decide if you want to rely on Mother Nature to provide the water or get it done yourself. I prefer to do it myself so it is always there. We are blessed with a lot of shallow water sources in MN, so a shallow sandpoint with a trash pump can provide all the water you need to flood your depression. It can be as easy as that!

But...if you have a large flat field at your use (1 to 2 % slope), berms can be designed to catch the water and create the sheet water in the fall. During the growing season, there is a control structure to allow water to flow out of the field to grow the crops. This control structure is then blocked off in the fall and water added for the flooding. If there is a surface ditch nearby, sometime a diversion can be installed to funnel the water into the field you want to flood. This is also not really expensive as a moldboard plow can make the berms (they don't need to be huge berms) and the control structure can be a piece of metal.

We are really serious about getting demonstration sites out there and helping people with options. I am looking at providing a FREE in-house review of your property to help you with some ideas and options. This not only good for hunting, but it will also provide more food sources thru the flyway to help increase body weights on migrating birds.

Good stuff!

[TylerS]

Well, looks like Nodak's rules on baiting are the same as the federalies:

•No one shall take migratory game birds by the aid of baiting, or on or over any baited area, where a person knows or reasonably should know that the area is or has been baited. You may hunt migratory game birds, including waterfowl, on, over or from standing crops or flooded standing crops; flooded, harvested cropland; lands where grain has been scattered solely as a result of a normal agricultural planting, harvest or post-harvest manipulation; or from a blind or place of concealment camouflaged with vegetation from agricultural crops, provided that use of such vegetation does not expose, deposit or scatter grain or other feed.

My question for you is: If a crop is planted specifically for the purpose of flooding it later in the year for hunting, wouldn't that be considered baiting since the user "knows or reasonably should know that the area is or has been baited?" Because it's not like the corn is specifically being grown for harvest...it's being used to attract ducks.

I dunno, sounds like a pretty grey area. I could see COs going either way on the subject...

[LandDr]

TylerS...good research and info.

If the crop is planted using normal farming practices, then it is considered a "crop" and not "bait". This goes for food plots planted for deer and pheasants as well...plant them just as you would plant a crop and then the food plots are considered "crop" and not "bait". That is the perfect example.

The corn you are refering to can still be harvested if you drew the water back down. We have often harvested our food plots in the spring if there is still corn or other grains still remaining that would be worth harvesting. We harvested one of the corn plots last spring and sold the corn for $1600!! Very nice.

COs are not handing out tickets for guys hunting over deer corn plots or other food plots...it is the same as planting a food plot for ducks...just don't knock it down, chop it, scatter it, etc. as that would be manipulation.

I think it is pretty black and white with plenty of examples to site.

Thanks for the post and research.

[TylerS]

The only reason I show concern is because I've heard plenty of horror stories where guys have been pinched in Nodak for hunting flooded corn fields. And believe it or not, arguing the legalities of a practice with a CO in the field probably won't get you on their good side, regardless if they have "written proof of the law."

Here's some of the main points from the Federal laws on baiting waterfowl, Sorry it is a bit long, but this site won't let me post a direct link to the FWS site:

What is Legal?

You can hunt waterfowl on or over or from:

•Standing crops or flooded standing crops, including aquatic plants.

•Standing, flooded, or manipulated natural vegetation.

•Flooded harvested croplands.

•Lands or areas where grains have been scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting, harvesting, or post-harvest manipulation.

•Lands or areas where top-sown seeds have been scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting, or a planting for agricultural soil erosion control or post-mining land reclamation.

•A blind or other place of concealment camouflaged with natural vegetation.

•A blind or other place of concealment camouflaged with vegetation from agricultural crops, provided your use of such vegetation does not expose, deposit, distribute or scatter grain or other feed.

•Standing or flooded standing crops where grain is inadvertently scattered solely as the result of hunters entering or leaving the area, placing decoys, or retrieving downed birds. Hunters are cautioned that while conducting these activities, any intentional scattering of grain will create a baited area.

What is Illegal?

Some examples of areas where you cannot hunt waterfowl include:

•Areas where grain or seed has been top-sown and the Cooperative Extension Service does not recommend the practice of top sowing (see section on wildlife food plots).

•Crops that have been harvested outside of the recommended harvest dates established by the Cooperative Extension Service (including any subsequent post-harvest manipulations).

•Unharvested crops that have been trampled by livestock or subjected to other types of manipulations that distribute, scatter, or expose grain.

•Areas where grain is present and stored, such as grain elevators and grain bins.

•Areas where grain is present for the purpose of feeding livestock.

•Freshly planted wildlife food plots that contain exposed grain.

•Croplands where a crop has been harvested and the removed grain is redistributed or “added back” onto the area where grown.

These examples do not represent an all-inclusive list of waterfowl baiting violations.

The Hunter's Responsibility

As a waterfowl hunter, you are responsible for determining whether your proposed hunting area is baited. Before hunting, you should:

•Familiarize yourself with Federal and State waterfowl hunting regulations.

•Ask the landowner, your host or guide, and your hunting partners if the area has been baited and inspect the area for the presence of bait.

•Suspect the presence of bait if you see waterfowl feeding in a particular area in unusually large concentrations or displaying a lack of caution.

•Look for grain or other feed in the water, along the shore, and on the field. Pay particular attention to the presence of spilled grain on harvested fields and seeds planted by means of top sowing.

•Confirm that scattered seeds or grains on agricultural lands are present solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting, normal agricultural harvesting, normal agricultural post-harvest manipulation, or normal soil stabilization practice by consulting the Cooperative Extension Service.

•Abandon the hunting site if you find grain or feed in an area and are uncertain about why it is there.

Other Responsibilities

If you prepare lands for hunting, participate in such preparations, or direct such preparations, it is important for you to know and understand what practices constitute baiting. You should know what activities constitute baiting and when lands or other areas would be considered baited before such areas are hunted. If you bait or direct that an area be baited and allow waterfowl hunting to proceed, you risk being charged with an offense that carries significant penalties.

[TylerS]

And I agree with you, Landrr, on the hunter probably being in the right if they hunt a flooded corn field. All I'm saying, is that I'd rather err on the side of caution. If a CO is going to bust you in the field for hunting a flooded corn field, there's not much you can do about it at that point. And the process of going through the court system to nullify the citation, fines, confiscated guns, etc., would be more time and money than most people care to put in. Especially since there are many non-resident hunters who come here solely to hunt waterfowl.

Again, if this were a perfectly "black and white" subject as you suggest, there wouldn't be an need for conversation. I could link to a certain popular "NODAK" outdoors site where this discussion went in depth, but as you all know, this site won't allow me to do that.

So if you want to flood a corn field, be my guest. I'm just saying it might not be as cut and dried as some people think...

Either way good luck! And I hope whatever everyone decides to do brings them much success in the future!!!

[shnelson]

Thanks guys, great discussion(s) so far! Sorry I haven't been able to reply, been pretty busy lately.

I promise I will jump back into this thread soon. Landdr, I should find out this weekend what rights I will have to utilize the property I originally listed, tried pulling the info up on GIS but it doesn't appear isanti county has their online system available currently.

[LandDr]

Here's just a quick summary of some of the items I feel are the most effective for waterfowl...

1. Open water

2. Upland

Open Water...

1. Shallower than 36 inches...Sago and/or wild rice.

a. Mucky bottom - Wild Rice but Sago is worth a try also.

b. Medium to mucky bottom – Sago.

2. Deeper than 36 inches...Celery and/or freshwater shrimp.

* Keep in mind that you can have both of these depths in a water body and you can plan accordingly to each area.

* Wild Rice does not require flowing water...that is a myth.

Upland...

1. Depressional with drainage (Tile or ditch)

a. Tile - install riser, control structure or plug in the fall after harvest. Best to leave some standing crop, second best is leave area untilled, last is tilled as that leaves the least food on the surface.

b. Ditch - berm with control structure and plug in the fall after harvest. Best to leave some standing crop, second best is leave area untilled, last is tilled as that leaves the least food on the surface.

* Water can be artificially pumped into the area to assure flooding to create "sheet water". A shallow pump is often easy to set up for this.

2. Depresional without drainage

a. Water can be artificially pumped into the area to assure flooding to create "sheet water". A shallow pump is often easy to set up for this. Best to leave some standing crop, second best is leave area untilled, last is tilled as that leaves the least food on the surface.

3. Low slope field (1 to 2 percent prefered)

a. Create a berm along the down slope side of the field or area to be flooded. This can be done with heavy equipment (dozer) or a moldboard plow. In the lowest outlet elevation, leave an outlet for draining the entire area to allow planting of late spring or early summer crops. Install an over-flow control structure that allows blocking the flow of water and holding it back to create sheet water in the desire area and at the desired elevation. Perform tillage and planting in late spring or early summer of cereal grains and/or corn. (I design landing areas and hunter concealment areas). Plant crops and maintain until maturity. Approximately 2 weeks prior to the duck opener, manage control structure to hold back sheet water. You can depend on Mother Nature to provide the flooding but it is always better to work with a diversion to funnel water into your area or install a shallow water pump.

By far the most effective means of attracting waterfowl is with the flooded crops. But not every property has the ideal spot to create this...many do however and you just need the eye to pick that spot out and design it. Working with open water is always the most difficult and results are not gauranteed due to the many variables. However, if you can get wild rice, sago, celery or shrimp to take, then you will have a lot of ducks visiting your water!

I hope this provides some additional information and help.

[shnelson]

Landdr,

I finally got a hold of the property information, and things are looking in my favor for developing some hunting habitat as they are looking for ways to cover the taxes on the land (I cover the taxes if I can hunt it, or possibly lease the area).

I shot an email to info at habitatnow dot com, hoping that's your contact information? You can get a hold of me through shawn at fowlnation dot com if not.