Guests - If You want access to member only forums on HSO. You will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up on HotSpotOutdoors.

It's easy - LOOK UPPER right menu.

  • Announcements

    • Rick

      Members Only Fluid Forum View   08/08/2017

      Fluid forum view allows members only to get right to the meat of this community; the topics. You can toggle between your preferred forum view just below to the left on the main forum entrance. You will see three icons. Try them out and see what you prefer.   Fluid view allows you, if you are a signed up member, to see the newest topic posts in either all forums (select none or all) or in just your favorite forums (select the ones you want to see when you come to Fishing Minnesota). It keeps and in real time with respect to Topic posts and lets YOU SELECT YOUR FAVORITE FORUMS. It can make things fun and easy. This is especially true for less experienced visitors raised on social media. If you, as a members want more specific topics, you can even select a single forum to view. Let us take a look at fluid view in action. We will then break it down and explain how it works in more detail.   The video shows the topic list and the forum filter box. As you can see, it is easy to change the topic list by changing the selected forums. This view replaces the traditional list of categories and forums.   Of course, members only can change the view to better suit your way of browsing.   You will notice a “grid” option. We have moved the grid forum theme setting into the main forum settings. This makes it an option for members only to choose. This screenshot also shows the removal of the forum breadcrumb in fluid view mode. Fluid view remembers your last forum selection so you don’t lose your place when you go back to the listing. The benefit of this feature is easy to see. It removes a potential barrier of entry for members only. It puts the spotlight on topics themselves, and not the hierarchical forum structure. You as a member will enjoy viewing many forums at once and switching between them without leaving the page. We hope that fluid view, the new functionality is an asset that you enjoy .
Sign in to follow this  
hanso612

seed choice for interseeding

Recommended Posts

I'm planning a spring burn and plan to add some forbs to my existing 7 grass mix to be drilled or broadcast into the duff after the burn.

If you had to pick one plant to seed to hold pheasants in the fall or to significantly up the chick survival what would it be?

My crp is 7 years old and already has stand height reduction do to crowding so I was thinking of adding more nitrogen fixers like purple praire clover or even alphalpha-but what do others think? Hans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are asking a tough question there. To me I hear you saying two things....

1. You want to provide for a strong brood habitat for hold.

2. You want to provide cover for survival.

I see these as two projects, that is at least how I read it.

So for #1, I would not put in alphalpha, it will be cut and prevent or disrupt nests. The clover is ok I guess, but I would actually say to put in Timothy grass, great nesting material and sow it with some oats. This will give you a good nesting area and hopefully build a strong brood class on your property. My favorite mix for a grass peice is a tall switchgrass with big blue stem bunches. Pure prairie beauty.

For #2, I would opt not for grasses, but to plants or shrubs for cover to protect young and adult chicks from predators both on ground and avian. Mix up some choke cherry, arbovitae, and eastern red cedar. Good cover with canopy runways to escape and also providing some thick stem cover to hide in. If you are ok with taller cover, throw in some red dogwood.

Good luck Hans and keep us updated on the progress and your decisions. You know you have some great habitat specialists not far from you to talk with too. Make your property all you want it to be, but make sure you know what will work with the size and soil type as well as limitations you may have with programs. Good luck and I hope you build a beauty!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

go with native prairie plants. they are drought resistant and grow during the summer, unlike the introduced tame grasses. purple prairie clover does great from seed, as long as you get good soil contact. i hate planting shrubs, especially cedars (yuck). black eyed susans, yellow or gray cone flower, bergamot, goldenrod, and yarrow are also good forbe choices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Native prairie forb seed is very expensive and the likelyhood of failure is very high. That's why during the original planting 7 years ago the NRCS only cost shares on a couple of forbs. I would have liked a mix just the opposite as the one they recomended- with 7 forbs and only a handfull of grasses.

Some of the forb seed can go for up to a thousand dollars a pound. That's a huge risk for a guy on a budget interseeding into an existing native prarie.

I went with Purple Prarie Clover and Maximillian sunflower the first year. The second fall the sunflower was eight feet tall with many stems -and held birds like crazy- but now it is knee high and single stemmed. My Prairie clover was a failure do to lack of soil microbes or not enough inoculant, but the little that made it was grazed heavy by deer. I don't mow and thought alphalpha might be a cheap way to add a nitogen fixer.

I have the chance to handpick local seed and I am wondering what species would give me the most return and least risk if I interseeded it into the prarie after the burn.??

Light disking brings up the weeds and has helped on our other plot, but I already have some rarer species that I would like to protect in our 7 year old restoration.

I keep my shrub areas and grass areas seperate to help keep the work down when making fire breaks for a contolled burn. I have added over 5 thousand seedlings to the farm in the last ten years and it is a constant battle with mice, rabbits, and deer. If the plants make it past the browseing a buck always rips them up just as they get big enough to rub.

But I still keep at it. It's a hard question and the bottom line is I want to have birds on the property in October. Most good brood cover is covered by the first storm so I think the answer lies in tall stiff plants that don't lodge.

Thanks for any help, Hans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hans, don't you think the burn is enough to re-establish a diverse productive area? You got to have plenty of seed in the ground already and the burn should release it.

Brood and survival cover are 2 animals....you need both. Determine which one is the critical one for your area and stick with that.

If money is tight I would just burn and forget the interseed.

I plan to do a spring burn on about 45 acres also.

A seminar I went said you want to interseed after heavy disking of old CRP. That is different scenario than a burn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off lets point out what the main benifit of having a forb component to a grass planting is. Forbs attract insects which is high percentage of a young chicks diet. This is your main benefit. The grass alone will hold birds all depending on the surrounding land practices (neighboring crop field, woods, more grass, etc.).

Assuming the 7 grass mix is native species...NO ALFALFA!!

1 - it will probably get out competed after the burn by the grasses. You will be absolutely amazed by the regrowth you get on the grasses after the burn.

2 - Alfalfa is short lived

3 - it doesn't belong in a native prairie

No timothy or anything like that. A person manages to get rid of non-native cool season's in native prairie.

I have seen interseeding of native forbs work. There is a possibility of having some of the new seedlings getting smothered out by the grass that once again will come back unbelievable.

Species that are relatively cheap (or should I say cheaper) and are going to be your best growers.

Purple Prairie Clover (hanso612, not sure why yours didn't come up. PPC grows in a multitude of conditions and is one of the first forb species that you see in a new seeding).

Black Eyed Susan, Wild Bergamot, Grey headed coneflower, Oxeye, Maximillian Sunflower.

I wouldn't worry about a drill. First off the seeds of different species are typically different sizes so it makes calibration very difficult, if not impossilbe. I would recommend a broadcast and harrow. Don't worry, you won't hurt the grasses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, thanks for the reply, sorry I took so long to get back to this forum.

I've had some luck interseeding when I use seeds that don't require any type of treatment(like scarfifying, or cold or wet cycles to break dormancy, or any special microbes) and I put them on bare soil. I usually find a gopher mound and spread the dirt then hand broadcast the seed.

It's a very slow process and doesn't have a fast or noticable impact-but over time I have added to the diversity of my prarie.

As my prairie gets older the cool season grasses are taking over. I am looking for any advice on slowing their spread-without harming the interseeded forbes. Some burns seem to help the grasses leading to an eventual monoculture of solid grass. Is light disking my best option or is there some chemical that can help?

Plateau made a herbiside called Ecopac that has been taken off the market because it was the perfect product to put on peanut farms- but wasn't rateed for human consumption but was being used anyway(My take-but would love to hear the real story?) But anyway, a product that knocked down the cool season grasses like this that would released the warm season natives and some forbs would be the ticket. Recomendations anyone ?

Anybody have any luck using roundup on the grasess like brome and not have them return without any further disking. What about spot mowing? Is it even approved in CRP

Things I would like to try:Any thoughts?

1)Planting a row of sunflowers around the corn and bean fields to be left as food and cover.Would it survive roundup oversray? Is there roundup ready sunflower? What about another species like millet? Would it be hard on the renter in any way?

2)Mowing an area of my CRP to a hight more benificial to chicks. Is it allowed in CRP? If not I have acres of untillable that could be mowed. Do you think the booste in chick survival would make up for the lack of heavy fall cover?

3)Pinning down large sheets of black plastic over cover I don't want. Could it be done or will wind rip it appart?

4) I want to get more cattails in my ditches. Could I use haybails to stop the flow and seed with cattail heads uphill of haybail or would I be better off transplanting live cattail or using mud from the bottom of the pond? Chem treat first?

5) I would like more shrubs around field edges as well but see huge risk with over spray. Anybody plant next to crop fields?

From the length of the post it is clear I have birds on the brain-but would really like to hear about other projects others have tried-failures too! Hans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roundup will kill everything that is actively growing. If you spray it on brome, you would need to burn off the excess residue, then no-till drill some warm season grasses into the sod. This will take a lot longer for the warm season grasses to grow, but can be effective.

If you want the warm season grasses to outcompete the cool seasons, you should try to burn as late in the spring as possible (late May). This should suppress the cool season grasses that are starting to green up and give more of an advantage to the warm season grasses. The black ash will attract more heat to the ground and give the warm season grasses a jump start. Not to mention that they will take advantage of the ash as a natural fertilizer. Don't be afraid to burn in consecutive years to achieve your goals. Maybe try a rotation where you burn 1/2 of your property at a time, so you don't lose all of your cover at once.

Pinning down sheets seems like a lot of work that would likely be blown away.

I wouldn't disk anything unless you want an explosion of weeds.

If you're going to mow crp, you better go ask your county farm service center for some guidelines.

It sounds like your describing drainage ditches. If these are draining wetland basins, why not restore the basin by plugging the ditch? The USFWS has a program called Partners for Fish & Wildlife that will do all of the restoration work for you for FREE. Do an internet search for minnesota partners for fish and wildlife.

Personally, I'm not a fan of shrubs on grassland landscapes. But, if you decide to go that route, at least look for native prairie species that can handle a burn and the cold winters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

B.Amish, Thanks for the info. We have 160 acres with a creek down the middle that runs into a drainage ditch. This stream is buffered but has no cattails because the water is always moving and the bank is steep and deep.

I am actually talking about my road ditch. I often hunt the ditch when I'm hunting alone.

I notice the birds hold in the ditch when there are cattails or other heavy cover. So that is why I would like to get more switch grass and Indian grass in my brome ditch and more cattails in the wet areas all over the farm. Any thoughts on how best to get the cattails started.

I also have a low spot on an adjacent farm that is all smartweed, but I would like to seee it in cattails as well. Any thoughts?Hans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there are cattails growing on parts of your property, but won't in certain areas, there's probably a reason. It might be that some areas are a little too dry to support cattails. A taller wetland plant that grows in "drier" areas than cattails would be river bullrush. If you can ID it, the seeds are ready to be picked right about now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it's wet enough and there are cattails nearby, the cattails will eventually grow. I wouldn't worry about seeding/transplanting. Be careful in blocking/impounding water. If it's your own private road then probably ok. If impounding within a right or way of township/county road then probably not goint to be ok without approval.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear you on risk of a wash out on the road ditches. These are the ditches I'm talking about the outside corner dirt section roads in Murray co. on a 160 acre quarter section and another across the dirt road from a wma with tons of cattails. Could a haybail cause a washout?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  



  • Posts

    • Ya he comes home the 29th getting excited for pheasant going to take a trip out to sodak this year Ended up showing a guy from work who is a first time bow hunter a couple of my spots in Sherburne. Was going to walk kunkel after for grouse but it ended up getting too late so just went home. Was hoping for some good weather this weekend but doesn't look too good. Friday is a high of 90! no thanks Maybe I will get a morning sit in for deer hunting if the rain cooperates
    • anybody know what it is?
    • I've been finding a few hens, but nothing like last year (which was great for me).  Here's one that was just shy of ten pounds sitting next to my daughter.
    • You may as well paddle a green kiddie pool around.  Might find one for 50 cents if you look a little. Um, yeah, I've actually seen it done. 
    • Good move!  I'm sure they are thankful! I might've made an offer if I'd seen this before but they'll probably be better used in the organization that received them. Sorry the hear your hunting days are over.
    • There is no way Koivu doesn't get more term and $$ in free agency, not a lot more but he gets more. Marleau is trending down and got more money, Hansel got 750 less and is not in the same league as Koivu. I was hoping for something like 4.5 or 5 but what he got at 2 years is very reasonable. He is a lifelong wild, our captain and a great player, we have no immediate replacement, he makes our team better for the next 3 years be it 1/2/3 center. This isn't something to get upset about, scandella trade sure, aging parise sure but that had to be done, not getting a young center sure but that can sometimes be out of our control because it takes two teams to trade. I get it people are bitter about last year but what fan base isn't bitter about this or that? 
    • I ran 10 gauge wire from my shore or generator feeder to my converter.  Way over kill for a 2000 watt generator but if you ever take it camping or run it off a 3k in the summer it's nice to be wired for the extra wattage.  10 feet of 10 gauge really isn't that much money on the whole project... nice thing about running your inverter directly from the battery and splitting a couple outlets is they are always ready to go.  Just hit the switch on the inverter and you don't have to mess with unplugging and plugging in strings of 110 outlets.  Behind my tv the bottom outlet runs of the Genny and the top runs of the inverter.  Nice thing is if I ever wanted to run the whole 110 system off the inverter I can just run a 6 inch cord with a male plug on each end out the top outlet and into the bottom and power the whole house.
    • This looks like it will work to me. I had thought of doing something similar when I was thinking of going with the inverter, seperate 12v fuse block and onboard charger. Would have wired a "hot" outlet direct from generator. Then ran a piece of romex with a male plug wired onto it and tied the 110v into that. then I could have either plugged that into the "hot" outlet along with the onboard charger, when the generator was running. Or I could have plugged it into the inverter when needing to run off battery power.
    • never been there, have to go!!!   off 10 right???   or where?? thanks!!
    • Thanks everyone for the replies. I am planning to go with the ac/dc distribution panel with built in converter and charger. Then adding an automatic transfer switch, and an inverter. I m going to bring  the exterior generator outlet directly into a gfci outlet box. Then wiring the transfer switch as follows... To the NO(normally open) terminals I will wire either a piece of 14ga romex with a male plug wired on the other end, or just get a cord of the correct size with the plug on it, which will plug into the "hot" gfci outlet being fed by the generator. I will do the same at the NC(normally closed) terminals, which can be plugged into the inverter. Then from the transfer switch output I will wire a piece of romex with a female plug, or correct size cord with same. From the main terminals on the 110v side of the distribution panel I will wire of piece of romex or cord with a male plug on it. That can then be plugged into the female plug coming out of the transfer switch. I figure wiring it that way gives me the option of bypassing the transfer switch and plugging the distribution panel directly into the "hot" gfci outlet from the generator if the transfer switch should fail. The transfer switch should feed the output from the NO terminals as long as they have power to them. If they lose power, i.e. turning the generator off, then the NO terminal close and it switches the NC terminals open and feeds the output from those, which would be the inverter in this case.   I had been told by one of the places that sells fish house materials that I couldn't wire an inverter in with one of their WFCO panels. I knew there was a way so I thank you guys for making me think about it a little more. I think this set up will give me exactly what I'm looking for. I plan on running a Honda 2000W generator, and then two 31 series AGM batteries wired in paralell. Will run the generator during the day when convenient, but also want the ability to "run and gun" more when conditions allow without needing to set up the generator every time just to power a couple small AC items.   Anyone have any experience with the automatic transfer switches? Go Power brand seems to have good reviews. Same with distribution panels. 2 I see the most are the WFCO and the Progressive Dynamics. YettiStyle, what is it that you prefer about the Progressive Dynamics panel? Better quality? Easier connections? etc...   Thanks again to everyone!
  • Our Sponsors