Pointing labs

[IainG]

I own two pointing labs and I am invovled with the trainig of a couple more. They are wonderful friends and great to hunt with - whether that is waterfowl or upland.

Bigdog, sorry to hear of your experience. It is definitely NOT what I have experienced. As a recent qualified judge and frequent participant in APLA (American Pointing Lab Association) hunt tests I am also familiar with all the other kennels mentioned here.

With my PL's and the others I am training, we exposed the dogs to birds at an early stage and specifically enhancing / encouraging the pointing behaviour. A high drive dog that initially points will soon learn to lunge for birds if given the opportunity. Especially if the dog gets to capture pen raised birds. All of the dogs I am training will hold point until released as a result of this work.

For the record both of my dogs are from Alma Bottom. Both hold APLA titles with one running at the Master level and the other should be running there next spring. Both also have AKC passes. They also are part of our family with three "human brothers" ranging from 6 - 14. There have been no agressive incidents. I also take them to my medical clinic on a constant basis where they are very popular with my patients.

[Bushwacker]

Welcome to Fishing Minnesota IanG. Your expertise on dog training could be real valuable to a lot of people on this site. Enjoy!

[superfish2]

IainG,

Is there any APLA events around here. I would like to see these dogs in action, and also learn a little more. I went to the MN ALPA club HSOforum and everything they have listed is already done.

[JTnT]

Bigdog, I too have a black dog from ABK. Very high drive dog. Maybe the quickest on the outbound leg of a mark I've seen. Covers upland ground like a close working pointer - typical range from 50 to 400 yards depending on the cover and bird density. Hunts like yours, with head up drawing air in through his nose for extended periods. He's a wonderful sweet dog as well. Behaves with my three grandchildren aged a few months to 6 years. Just loves people. He was pointing wings when I first met him at 12 weeks age but it did take some wild bird exposure for him to decide to point those things. Perhaps that was due to the company he kept while growing the first year and a half, but it may be indicative of the effect Iain mentioned.

You spent a LOT of time testing the pup which indicates you wanted a pointing dog. Was there some reason you never worked with your dog's pointing on birds after getting him? From your discription of your selection process and his current hunting, he had great promise. You have apparently hunted him extensively. Have you killed a bunch of birds over his flushes? If not, even at his age, it might be possible to turn him around. If so, this could be more difficult now. I have personally done this with another PL I have (not the one from ABK) and could give you some pointers by email if you contact me.

JTnT

[IainG]

Superfish2

There are effectively two seasons for APLA tests: Spring & Fall (usually April & Sept). We had the first test in the area ever in September. It was well attended and very well organized.

I would expect that we will see a test each spring and fall between MN and western WI. If I am not judging, I will be running dogs.

Bushwacker, thanks for the welcome.

BigDog. Echoing the last post, your dog is probably recoverable if you want to put in the time. It certainly sounds like you have a high drive dog. That is a big plus. (You can't add drive to a dog!) Some work with a pigeons and a check cord would probably set him straight pretty quick.

[superfish2]

Did the ALPA test in MN cover every level? From getting the CP all the way up to the grand master? Then are PL eligible to run in hunt tests, akc tests, and that verstile hunting dog test. Sorry for all the questions. I am really not that intrested in field trails, but just wondering how this thing works.

[IainG]

Superfish2

Yes, there were dogs running at every level at the MN APLA test. There were lots of CP dogs (typical), a hand full of Advanced Dogs (also typical) and a few Masters Dogs (not typical). Dogs with one Masters pass that get subsquent passes get their Grand Master - i.e. it is the same test, but multiple passes. At the test locations which have been running for some time, you will see lots of Masters dogs. I am sure we will get there in MN / WI in the near future.

The recognition of the PL? Lots of organizations do not yet recognize while others do. My personal opinion is that it is just a matter of time before recognition increases. (So long as the Pointing Lab community is proactive and contiguous.) When we are running AKC, we are running as a retriever. Neither flushing nor pointing.

Another point. Many kennels are extensively involved in the "Doggy Games" for PL's. That doesn't necessarily mean they produce better hunters. Two of the oldest breeders of PL's have had minimal involvement until recently. As an example, I am an anomoly with respect to the kennel my dogs came from. And for the record, I hunt first. I was just very curious on how my training and my dog measured up, so at the last second I went to an APLA event. Unforunately we did pretty well and got hooked. Now it looks like I may be running 4 or 5 dogs next year. What an expensive mistake!!!

I do think that the Doggy games are a fantastic way to meet people of similar interests and learn from others.

[bigdog]

Been out in North Dakot since last week - appreciate the offers for pointing "pointers". That dog is almost 6 years old now and I don't have any plans on working on his pointing abilities or lack there of. He has developed into one of the best upland dogs I have owned and I adapted to his hunting style. He has had many, many birds shot over him. We have already hunted 24 days this fall.

One thing I do find strange. With all of my previous labs, they have developed some degree of pointing as they grew older and experienced more birds - one would even hold point until released. With this AB dog coming from pointing stock, I would have expected this to occur even sooner without having to reinforce through training.

[JTnT]

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One thing I do find strange. With all of my previous labs, they have developed some degree of pointing as they grew older and experienced more birds - one would even hold point until released. With this AB dog coming from pointing stock, I would have expected this to occur even sooner without having to reinforce through training.

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You have a dog with very high "prey drive." When you chose to take it hunting and shoot birds which it flushed for it, you trained it to flush birds. You reinforced a standard canine hunting behavior which competes with pointing - that's why the point disappeared in favor of the flush. From the dog's perspective, this is now the way to get that bird in its mouth. No wonder it doesn't point - doesn't have to to satisfy its basic drive. You could have spent a little time rewarding pointing it would have turned out differently.

But, you and the dog are a productive team - who could want anything more?

Keep enjoying your AB dog.

JTnT

[IainG]

BigDog. Hope you had a productive trip to ND!

Echoing JTnT's sentiments: With a high drive dog, you NEVER shoot wild flushes over it. The dog wants success in the hunt and feathers in its mouth. They want that more than anything else. If pointing produces that they will point. If flushing produces that, then why waste the time with a point? Get to those feathers quicker and have more fun in the pursuit.

Anyone who goes hunting with me knows the rules when we hunt. If the dog doesn't do everything perfectly (point, steady to wing & shot), we DON'T shoot the bird or let the dog get the retrieve. Amazing how well my dogs will perform - and how much harder they try after they see one "fly away" with no shot. They adapt to my hunting style - not I to theirs.

Sounds like you have a very talented dog. Enjoy!