bells and birds

[Farmboy1]

Your right as rain Uplander, said better then I could. I let my dog tell me what to do, he knows where they are, and I have learned to trust him. I guess I don't hunt large expanses of cover, and this is what works best for me in the type of cover I normally hunt.

I just hate to see birds busting wild Roll on!

[gonefishin11]

Birds bust wild sometimes whether a dog is ranging ahead or not. I hunt a lab so she has to stay closer than the pointers. She will get birdy 20 yards from me and soon after a bird will bust 200 yards away. She will follow the trail right to where the bird got up. It happens and its part of hunting. You chalk one up to a smart bird and find a new one that is hopefully a little less wary.

[gspman]

Farmboy1,

I think your outlook on how a pointer should hunt is a little different than the others and there's nothing wrong with that. If it suits you that's great. However, most folks would agree that the advantage of a pointer is the ability to hunt out of gun range.

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There may be a difference to guys hunting grouse, or game farm chickens, but wild birds are not that easy.

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We all know wild birds and I mean all wild birds, not just pheasants, aren't that easy and we are all talking about wild birds. Pheasants, grouse, partridge, sharptails, etc. If you think grouse are easy then you should hunt them some time. Game farm birds don't count.

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but he is there to hunt for me, not do his own thing

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The range of a dog has nothing to do with whether it's hunting for you or not. A 150 yd dog can hunt for you just as well as a 40 yd dog. A 30 yd dog can be a self hunter just as a half mile dog can be a self hunter. It sounds like you want a shooting opportunity whether the dog points or not and that's fine with me. The point is the dog must handle and go with you even when it's far away.

There are some of us that would prefer our dogs work more independently (that doesn't mean untrained and in fact oftentimes means more trained) and get out there and find birds we wouldn't normally find. I would guess that most of the time most of our dogs are inside 100 yds. It's not like they're out 250 yds all the time. But if there's a lone spot way out there why not just let the dog check it out.

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Do you just wander around aimlessly looking for your dog?

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No, the dog handles for me. It keeps an eye on me and works in the direction I am working while checking out all likely spots, including one's that are far away.

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I always thought guys who let their dogs run 250 yds away just said they wanted their dog to do that because it was not trained well enough to hunt with in range, but maybe they do it on purpose

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To have a dog handle it's birds correctly when out on a limb usually requires a bit of training. I could keep my dog in range if I wanted but I don't think for me that I'd be making the best use of her talents and abilities. I just let her go. Sometimes I do reign her in but we usually do the best when she does it her way. She knows way more about it than I do.

After all that I will say that yes, there will be birds that run out from under points and some that flush wild. They are wild birds and they do what they want to whether there's a dog there or not. This can mean a missed shooting opportunity. For some that's not an option. I'm willing to accept the occasional missed opportunity because somewhere along the line she will give me a memory. She'll stick one good and it'll be something to write about.

[Jager]

My two GSP's agree with you gspman!

[setterguy]

I've had this conversation a million times, but this is the best way I can describe it. I know this situation would never happen but it kind of displays the difference.

You have 3 200 yard by 200 yard fields each with 10 birds in them.

A large running dog will lets say hunt each field in 10 minites finding 7 out of 10 birds.

Total of 21 out of 30 birds in 30 minutes.

A close working dog will most likely find all 10 birds but take at least twice as long to do it.

Total 30 out of 30 in 60 minutes.

Obvioiusly this situation doesn't usually occur in the wild, but the point is you may miss more birds with a large running dog, but you can cover much more ground more quickly that could in turn turn into more birds per outing, and some pretty fancy dog work. To each their own, and what ever works for you, works for you.

I've hunted with guys that freak out when they see where my dog is during the hunt, but after a while they figure out what is going on and really seem to enjoy the experience. There is nothing better than hearing a bell stop in the distance, working through cover to get there to see your dog locked up tight, all the while holding for you as you approach, slowly turning her head, making eye contact with you as to say "psst, right there". Taking a few steps and hearing the bird take off, marking the bird on the bead, shooting and then hearing the thump of wings beating on the ground. Nothing better.

Shoot straight.

[Wild Willie]

Here is what I subscribe to as a "Rule of Thumb" with my Britt in the field: IF I CAN'T SEE HIM, OR HE CAN'T SEE ME, THEN HE IS TOO FAR. I will allow him to range well out of shotgun range if the terrain allows, weather conditions are good, and the birds are holding. If not I will set a comfortable range for the both of us with the pager on his collar. This is our fifth year together and I can fully enjoy and utilize all my Britts natural pointing breed capabilities. He hunts, I watch, I follow his lead, we work with each other on pace and succeed as a team in the field.

Not allowing my dog to use his god given abilities to range and hold birds when conditions are favorable, would be like owning a Corvette and never getting out of 1st gear.

[raymondk]

I only hunt public land with a brit which is a pointer in large open areas I leave him roam up to 100 yards we can cover large areas very fast my dog hunts at a very fast pace . I used to get mad at my dog for ranging to far not any more I think that my dog getts on them so fast that they hold my dog only flushed 2 birds this season so far that were out of range. also when i hunt the last hour of the day I want to cover big areas fast before they get to there roosting areas i don't use a bell in open areas but when I hunt cattails a bell is a must . I hunt a very heavly hunted area in which I see people they always tell me that there is no birds around in one piece i have shot 16 birds 7 times with my limit of 2 I will take my fast moving long range dog over any slow moving flusher anyday .