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Gopher Mens Hoops


Scott M

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i would have to say that there is something special that is going on here for the men. There is alot of people wondering if there for real, being they have not really played a powerhouse yet. I believe that the U is letting Tubby roll with what he thinks is correct. The guy is a monster, and i hope that U understands what kinda guy he is, and lets him get even more players in

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da chise...you are right on about Nolan. He is the best man on man defender i've seen in a long time and he is definately a spark plug for this team. This is a big week for the gophers if they expect to be in the dance. The way I see it Wisconsin, Indiana, Michigan State and Ohio State are in for sure. Then its between the gophs and a tough Purdue team for the fifth spot. But Ohio State really hasn't won against anybody but Florida and Michigan State is on the slide offensively after losing to a pathetic Iowa team. I really think we can take two out of the next three and i'll be at the barn for every one of them!

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Can't believe noone has posted anything about the game coming up tonight! I'm excited, should be a good game, would be great to get a win.

The Barn should be a rockin. This game will give us an idea of what we can expect the rest of the season.

I don't know what to predict as far as the score, but I will predict it will be close with a sold out arena and just as loud and racous as it used to be. Wish I was going to be there to witness the rebirth of the famous Barn.

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8 PM on ESPN. Perfect! Get chores done, warm up a bit, consume some vittles and settle in for some entertainment. I'm cautiously optimistic but still have some reservations about the level of talent Tubby has to work with. Tubby's a great coach and has done extremely well with what he's got to work with but he's not a magician just yet anyway. If they win tonight he could be in the running for magician however. Will be interesting to see how they play against a well coached, quality team. Hopefully they'll play to the level of the competition, stay close so the Barn can influence the outcome and eke out a win. Think da chise said he'll be there so will be fun to read his reaction to all the action. Enjoy!

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Pretty good game overall tonight.

Somebody needs to show Tollackson how to shoot free throws. That was ridiculous!

We had every opportunity to win that game.

Tubby has them going in the right direction though. The offense needs some work. Seems to be a lot of dribbling around near half court and then a pick and roll. It just looked disjointed to me.

It was fun to watch them play again and actually see them be competitive. It's been a while. Tubby will turn us in to a top twenty team within 2 years. Consistently, that is.

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 Originally Posted By: koonie
Pretty good game overall tonight.

Somebody needs to show Tollackson how to shoot free throws. That was ridiculous!

.

i dont think ridiculous covers how bad it looks. The man is a awesome player, but the free throws are so bad, hes not even close.

They played a great game tonight. To many turnovers, and at most of the time in the second half, they didnt look like they were playing together, they looked like they were just running with there head chopped off.

But i can say this, tubby has his team playing with some hart. There back on the map for hoops, and i think there going to be good for a few years

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Caught the game tonight. Dotch, I’m sure my old man was doing the same….finished chores and then turned on ESPN. Glad a few of you like the reports from the game, it’s a fun team to follow and agree or disagree it’s good to have hoops relevants in MN on some level.

Tonight’s game is what you want for Minnesota basketball…newspapers and radio personalities buzzing about the game, fans selling out and packing into Williams Arena, and expectations of a heck of a contest (which it was). Unfortunately, those last 3 minutes was the Minnesota basketball I’ve seen in that building that was the (pock)mark of Monson teams. Lack of screens, standing and waiting for someone else to do the dirty work, and fear to take the big shots. How can you have 3 seniors on the floor with 2 freshman, and you’re counting on Nolen or Hoffarber to take the big shot? This could be a real Achilles heal for this team in close games…who is the go to player? Another Monson characteristic from tonight? Another frickin’ moral victory.

The Gophers

* Force 26 turnovers, including 7 by Gordon

* keep Gordon on the bench for most of the 1st half with 3 quick fouls

* keep D.J. White on the bench for important stretches of the second half, particularly down the stretch on defensive possessions where he can’t own the paint like he did on both ends of the court in the first half

and yet….the Gophers lose by 5 despite pulling ahead by 2 with less than 2 minutes left. How does this happen?

The obvious answer? Spencer Tollackson goes 0-7 from the line. Absolutely brutal. He missed every way except airballs. Wipe away Tollackson’s 0-7 and the Gophers go 11-14. Not bad. And truthfully, 0-7 doesn’t tell the whole truth. Tollackson left a lot of free points on the table as he missed at least 3 front ends of 1-and-1’s. Spence finished 6 of 10 from the field, which doesn’t sound too bad, but he never threw a single pump fake at White. Personally if he would have shown anything in the post, I think a head fake would have had White sky high trying for the highlight reel blocks and into foul trouble sooner. It’s hard to score when you are sitting on the bench…could have altered the game some but that’s completely speculative since it didn’t happen that way. Spence had the chance to make some noise in the post and work an inside-out game and it never happened. It hasn’t happened yet this year. He hasn’t had a game where he takes over and he may never. I think this team could be that much better if they worked on their halfcourt sets and ran a bit more of the offense out of the post, either Tollackson or Coleman. But regrettably, this team has played half their games and forged an identity as a jump shooting team. I don’t expect things to change much.

The hidden answers? See the first paragraph above. Somebody has to want to win this game. Somebody has to want to take the big shot. When Indiana overplays guys the whole game and we never see one backdoor pass and very little dribble penetration, the Gophers can not win. They settled for too many jumpshots and outside shots, particularly in the second half. I don’t know if the seniors are too used to losing and leaving with their tails between their legs, but one of them should have wanted that last shot.

So just how did Indiana beat us despite those facts above?

Poor defense in transition. I can’t say the Gophers press was bad….I mean, heck, they forced 26 turnovers. But at the same time, they let guys dribble out of the press, split the middle with passes, and get easy points in transition. I can’t prove it and I’m sure someone has the stats somewhere, but I would guess half of Indiana’s field goals were inside of 5 feet….that’s a lot of layups and easy shots on Offensive rebounds and on fast break advantages after breaking the press

Poor rebounding. Gophers got outrebounded by almost 20. There was no way, given the differences in personnel, that the Gophers were going to outrebound the Hoosiers. But they can’t lose that battle by almost 20. Guards have to help by pinching down on big men, or just bodying up anyone they see. Rebounding isn’t size or jumping ability, it’s one of those “size of the fight in the dog” things…you just have to want it bad enough. Gophers didn’t get it done on the glass.

That other freshman. Jordan Crawford really killed tonight. 4-6 on 3’s, finishes as the second game-high scorer with 16. Kid played really well. Super efficient and pulled in a couple key offensive rebounds.

C’mon Tubby! This was the first night I was dissatisfied with Tubby’s performance. When you play a team ranked in the top ten you have to treat it like a playoff game. He’s gotta use a shorter bench. Period. That’s what you do in playoff situations, you go with your big guns. Travis Busch? What is he doing in the game? Starting Shamala? Somewhere earlier in this thread I pointed out that Jamal is not having a good year, and that poor year continues. He can’t defend and he’s been usurped by Hoffarber. In the best interest of the team, let him play himself back into the game, don’t start him and expect the world. My last beef with Tubby is a matter of opinion. I felt that the Gophers got killed running their zone. IU has great guards and they can all shoot. They really are a pick your poision team. White can get to work in the middle, and the guards can shoot, penetrate and score, or penetrate and dish. Tubby went zone for extended periods, and in the first half the Gophs paid for it. Indiana actually had a little 5 minute cold spell against that same zone in the second half where they came back to earth and Minny came back, but overall I would have still pulled the zone. The rotations were too slow or there was a commitment to doubling Gordon or White and for that reason the Hoosiers got tons of great looks. The Gophers are also horrible rebounding out of the zone, and gave up 10 offensive rebounds on the night. Some will disagree with me, but I would have liked less zone. I’m not saying go exclusively man to man, but less zone would have been better IMO. I kind of wish I could have asked Tubby or Nolen what was drawn up in those last couple timeouts. I can’t believe he wanted a bunch of drop-off weaves on the top of the key, or dribbling on the outside, or a top of the key pick and roll while everyone else stands. They should have drawn something up better or if they did so, they should have executed better. They got horrible shots in the last couple minutes. They flat out did not play to win in the end, they played to not lose. That’s a basketball cliché, but they were totally playing too timid. Be aggressive and play to win. They played timid and IU scored the final 7 points.

**********************

The Gophers should have raced out to an early lead to build some confidence but they let the Hoosiers hang. They forced like 10 turnovers in the first 12 minutes and had Gordon on the bench with 2 fouls at that time, but they just kept more or less trading baskets.

With 5 minutes left in the first half, Indiana sort of took control. They went into the break with a 8 point lead and the sellout crowd was pretty quiet. I figured one of two things would happen. a) Indiana would come out guns blazing and stick the knife in or B) The gophers would cut the deficit and scratch one out…that’s what their identity is, win by scrappiness and that would be their recipe in the second half. To my surprise, the latter role played out, but they couldn’t finish the job.

Tonight’s game said a lot about both teams. I’m pretty disappointed by the loss, but I think they will win on Sunday against Michigan State. The Gophers think they should have beaten MSU away and Indiana tonight and I think they are going to want it bad come Sunday. I loved hearing the building that loud. It was great. I haven’t heard it loud in like 6 years (Rickert years), and I haven’t heard it that pop your ears loud in like 10 years (The Haskins years). If the Gophers learn and get better from this, the pain of this moral victory will heal.

For the Hoosiers, they will probably take the next game vs. MN in Bloomington and I like them to win the league. They have some very skilled players. I expect them to go far in the tournament as well. They can beat you lots of different ways and I don’t expect anyone to outrebound them. They play a very physical style. Sweet 16 has to be an expectation; Elite 8 will be a reach considering what other teams are on the college basketball landscape. They also showed some weaknesses tonight, particularly in taking care of the ball and throwing cross court passes in half and full court scenarios. They are beatable by an up-tempo pressing team that has the horses the Gophers don’t. That will be their undoing come tournament time. Lots of young guys with some things to learn.

For those that want to indulge in the moral victory, you can look at what the Gophers did well. Damien Johnson filled out his stat sheet very well, including getting the p.t. nod in crunch time. Coleman puts up a steady 15/7. The mean streak was missing again, but he did score some crucial baskets. Nolen continued with strong on the ball pressure, spending a lot of time between Gordon and Crawford. He needs to get to the rim more. When he does, good things happen. He led the team in assists with 5, mostly off drives. He had a very nice take to the hole. On his one field goal (!), two dribbles took him from an NBA 3 point line to a layup. Heck of a drive past like 3 guys. He just needs to create more. The gophers continue to have maybe 3 guys athletic enough to create their own shots, McKenzie, Coleman, and Nolen. Of those three, none of them are aggressive enough to do it on a consistent basis. Lastly, and congruently with a true moral victory, the gophers never gave up and played a top ten team very tough at home. Honestly they should have won this game. Talentwise they are years away from what IU has, yet they were there till the bitter end.

Stop for a second and think about what would have happened if Tubby and Kelvin Sampson trade places. I gotta think Tubby wins by 30. With the recruits Tubby is bringing in, this is the future for this team. White and Gordon will be NBA picks this summer. Gordon looked horrible tonight, but he really has a nice stroke and a heck of a first step. White has been a handful for a while. He owned the paint tonight….There was an alley o.o.p thrown to him from beyond the 3 point arc out of transition that I thought was going about 10 rows back into the seats, and he goes up and one hands a tremendous dunk. He probably could have plucked a quarter off the top of the backboard, a la Don Cheadle as Earl 'The Goat' Manigault in “Rebound.” White has the size and athleticism to be amazing. He really isn’t putting up the numbers he probably should.

Tough loss. Good teams finish games, good teams win at home, good teams want to play for all the marbles. I hope we come to find this game as an aberration, and that the gophers truly are a “good team”

Go Gophs

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Good post.

From watching the game I came away with a few conclusions that differ from yours. For one, I don't think Indiana is going anywhere. They may have the talent, but if they can't handle a gopher press against less than stellar talent, someone like you say "with the horses" will take it to em. I don't think they are that good honestly. Of course, they are likely alot different team with Gordon in there the whole game, I haven't watched any of their other games, but even Gordon looked like he doesn't handle pressure well.

Secondly, I think we should have won that game by anywhere from 6-15 points. Our shooting was terrible and that was our undoing. 3-17 from behind the arc and a little over 50% from the line will kill you every time. I just don't see how they can shoot that bad AT HOME. Rebounding also killed us. We all knew that was going to be a big key to the game and gophs didn't perform.

I do agree with you about Abu-Shamala. At best he is a guy that should be getting 10 minutes a game. Just to spell the other guys when they are tired. He is just too slow to be a Big Ten guard. He plays as hard as anyone, but he is a spot up shooter, nothing more and if his shot isn't dropping, which it hasn't lately, he is useless. Where was Hoffarber? He is one of our best scorers and he didn't play enough last night IMO.

Also, where was McKenzie? Man he missed quite a few open looks, not just the one at the end, but he was money from the 3-arc last year. He was big-time scorer and last night we were just aching for someone to put the ball in the hole. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more shots. Of course, maybe that will come once his hand heals.

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Wow! Hard to follow posts like those last 2. I think ESPN needs to hire da chise. If you want the opinion of a barn-balling rassler yet die hard Gopher basketball fan, I defer to what I said earlier about the talent level. It'll be a few years before Tubby gets the Monson flushed out of the system and we'll win games like these consistently. I thought a couple times down the floor when McKenzie put up those 3 ball bricks, they were too quick, the Hoosiers got the easy rebound and it really took the wind out of the Gopher's sails at a critical time. 3 of 17 from 3 pt. land for the game stinks especially when getting the ball down low & trying to get the Hoosiers with foul trouble fouled out was possible. Made me groan anyway. I won't miss Mckenzie next year that's for sure. I had the added misfortune of having to watch the game last night with some company (a friend of the wife's) from Indiana, who also happens to be a Hoosier fan. She was pretty quiet when she saw the Gophers hanging with her beloved IU team. She got a little yappier when it looked like the Hoosiers would win. After awhile though when those 2 get together all their incessant jabbering becomes "white noise" so I can tune it out and focus on the game and my Leinie's Honeyweiss.

It's great that we don't all see the game the same way and can have an opinion. Indiana managed to win primarily because of the poor Gopher free throw situation IMO. They played almost well enough to win but it still winds up in the L column. Good effort but no one will look at it come tournament time if they're on the bubble and say, "Well, they almost beat Indiana." Indiana is a good team. Not great but definitely the team to beat in the Big Ten. Michigan St. and The Ohio State University are beatable and the Gophers will likely win one of the next 2. Just not sure which one.

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I'll make mine short and sweet because the previous post covered it all. Overall, I thought the men played really good. I guess it just not expected to beat a number ten team but I'm glad they stuck with them and weren't blown out. Only caught about 3/4 of the game but I'm looking foward to what Tubby can offer this team in a couple years.

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It certainly is a talented recruiting class. Here are a few rankings from the early recruiting period:

Minnesota class of 2008-09 rankings:

Hoop Scoop #7

Hoopmaster #11

ESPN #19

Rivals #20

Scout Hoops doesn't have MN in the top 25. Maybe they don't score JUCOs as high or something.

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Brutal game this afternoon in the Barn. A game where I just left disgusted. I flat out left mad…How can this team not know how to handle its business at Williams? This is your homecourt and you can’t take care of business? If they are serious about getting to the Big Dance, they had to win one of these 2 home games against the best of the big ten. They aren’t a team dead in the water by any means, but a win in one of these games certainly strengthens the resume. Quality wins are really important. I knew this would be the worst stretch of games on their schedule, finishing on Saturday by going to face an upstart Ohio State team that will probably battle Minnesota and maybe another team or two for the Big Tens last bid to the Big Dance.

The game never got off to a good start. Guys are crying about fouls, getting pushed around on offense and defense. Honestly, you can’t blame the refs, they set the tone and you follow their lead. If they let you play, play. Frontcourt beasts like Matt Trannon and Paul Davis are gone. MSU still have a couple big guys, but they are there to set picks and rebound, and you should know that going in. Attack the rim hard! Instead Spencer and the other forwards are trying to dipsy-doodle around and throw up little shots instead of powering it in, and playing tough on both ends of the floor.

I heard all this talk about how the Gophers are in such great shape, while maybe they are slimmer and quicker than last year, but they aren’t in MSU shape. State ran them ragged in transition. I watched guys that didn’t even turn around on defense when they hit halfcourt. That’s just fundamental. Layup drills for MSU. That’s always been what State does, quick inbounds and start the fast break. It was disgusting. Guys are jogging up and down the court with only a couple guys sprinting. Gettting beat to both ends. How are things going to get better conditioning-wise when the team can’t practice as often with classes starting up this week?

And the same problems with not knowing what to do on offense. Standing, high screens, whittling the shot clock down and then taking a long jump shot. Tubby’s gotta do something with this offense. It has to have a purpose and a foundation, particularly in the end of games.

Defense was garbage. More troubles with transition defense. Maybe some of it was conditioning and not getting back, but a lot of it is not picking guys up or stopping the ball in transition. You gotta be able to come down, stop the ball, pick up your man, and defend your basket. If you can’t stop the ball, or leave trailers on the perimeter wide open, or can’t even sprint down you are going to get killed the same way all year long.

They let Neitzel destroy them in the second half. Don’t they practice against a pretty good shooter? Don’t they run Hoffarber off screens in practice to simulate stuff like that? Almost every look Neitzel got in the second half was wide open. Of course he’ll bury those shots. He finished with 19 points on 5-8 three point shooting. Those guards have to play on top of those screens and in the passing lane. If he fades off the screen you can recover, if he curls, you’ve got help…He’s not a backdoor threat at 6’0”. He got all these wide open looks on down screens, back screens, and cross screens. They even ran double picks with their bigs for him. They have a long way to go on defending screens, particularly with the premier shooters in the league.

Most of it is poor defense, but I should acknowledge what a talent Neitzel is at setting screens up. He fakes, he cuts, he is always moving. He’s a great player to study on and off the ball. He leads the country in assist to turnover ratio as MSU’s PG for a reason, and he’s deadly in the 2 guard role or just roaming the perimeter.

McKenzie has a nice game, but only after the game wasn’t in doubt and he got free reign to shoot some threes. Finishes with 20, basically he kept the final score respectable when state took the 10 point lead with a little under 5 minutes to go.

Damien Johnson has a decent game, getting the start and putting up 10 points and 6 boards.

Al Nolen doesn’t play with a deep thigh bruise. I hear it was a game time decision, he dressed and everything. They really missed him. Westbrook plays, and you’d think he had a nice game with a dozen points, but he left Neitzel open all game, turned the ball over 5 times, and had a dribbling convention at the top of the game during Minnesota’s half court sets. I would have liked to see Nolen out there for defensive purposes on Neitzel.

Coleman had a flat game after being so consistent of late. He goes 4-13 for 9 points, and three rebounds. Spencer has 7 points, 6 rebounds, 1-3 from the FT line. Meanwhile MSU’s bigs Naymick and Suton, who together average about 12/13 points and 12/13 boards, go for 19 points and 17 boards combined. How easy the pickings are against this MN frontcourt. Can Ralph Sampson III forego the remainder of his high school senior season and be flown in tomorrow? Minnesota doesn’t get punished on the boards, but they do lose another battle of the glass.

For me there isn’t much to be excited about. Raymar Morgan went off for 31 in East Lansing a couple weeks ago, tonight he scores 9 and is 5-12 abysmal from the FT line. Does that count? Honestly, no one impressed me. Michigan State basically held the lead the whole game, played consistent, and “the barn” crowd never really got into it. Neither did the players. I thought the Gophers played a better all around game against Indiana than they did against Michigan State today. I thought they would have wanted it more, and knowing that State is a physical team, they would have manned up and played tough and pulled it out. But that didn’t happen. You wonder why guys like Dahlmann go to MSU, it’s because they come in to Williams and win every year, and then do the same thing everywhere else. Make no mistake, Michigan State is the model in the Big Ten, has been for right around 10 years now. Competitive each year, 10 consecutive trips to the Big Dance and 4 Final 4’s in that decade span.

Guess we’ll see if this team is gonna roll over and die at Columbus on Saturday, or win and get back to .500 in the conference and get ready to beat up on some Big Ten cellar dwellers and prepare for Bucky. Too early to give up on the team, but I need to see some huge changes in the next game before I can fathom them even being on the bubble come March. They HAVE to win 10 games in the conference to even be in the conversation, to even be on the bubble. That means they can’t lose more than 3 more, and they still have 3 games with ranked opponents, lots of road games, and two games with an Ohio State squad that will be right there at the end of the season. I hope there are some pubs in Ely with the Big Ten Network on Saturday!

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I concur da chise. Thought they definitely played better against Indiana than Michigan State. Having watched enough Gopher hoops over the years, guess I should know better than to get my hopes up. At least Mychal Thompson didn't try to sell me his tickets the year before they had the chance to be something special that season. For some reason though a nagging little man in the back of my mind desperately keeps wanting them to win. The inconsistency that consistently plagued Monson is still with us like the odor in Seinfeld's car. The level of athleticism really shows against a team like MSU too and while the Gophers were definitely more well conditioned than some of their lesser opponents, it was telling yesterday. Tallackson goes about 4 minutes and his shots start falling off and getting blocked. Not getting back on D and not contesting shots will get your arse beat every time. Remains to be seen if the Dahlmann's of the world will continue in numbers to leave the state to play elsewhere but my bet is the chances of them staying with Tubby in place are dramatically improved. It's hard to be patient after what we've been through though isn't it? No doubt, missing Nolen was a blow and no one really picked up the slack. McKenzie somewhat redeemed himself by knocking down the 3's in the second half after putting up one gawd awful attempt in the 1st half. Think Tubby sat him down right after that. Still won't miss him next year. The game wasn't as close as the score indicated. Actually, I'm still wondering who the loud, blood curdling screamer is in the student section. My god, has she got a set of lungs! Heard her at the NDSU game and could even hear her on TV yesterday. In the first half she timed her screams earlier so that Raymar missed from the free throw line but in the second half, sounded like she waited too long. She'll need to work on that. We won't have that luxury on the road against the Buckeyes but just have a hunch this might be their chance to pull off an upset. Hopefully Nolen's bruise will be better. If not, could be another L.

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Yep, you guys pretty much summed it up. Seems like the team had a little hangover effect from the game with Indiana. I just listened as I don't have the BT network, but it sounded like Mich St. was in control most of the game.

One thing that I think will help this team next year is to have a few bigs that can play come in. Spencer and DC have to be the softest combo in the league. Both of them need to step up and "win" in these types of games, and usually neither of them do. They are the seniors that should be the leaders, but are not. Seems both of them have a very fickle game that can be taken advantage of by most good teams.

Time will tell, but to me it seems like this team is one step below a legitimate NCAA tourney team. They really have not beaten anyone worth a darn this year. A team that wanted to or will make the dance this year, would have won both of those last 2 games, they were there for the taking. Who knows, maybe they will hang tough and go on a winning streak, but they needed at least one of these 2 games.

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Agree with you both guys. Seems like the Gophers are like one player away still.

You are missing a freshman points guard, and like Jim Souhan pointed out in the Strib, it's like you are missing Jordan or something. Gotta be able to win without a freshman PG.

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I missed the game Saturday night but it sounds like they got stomped in the final 13 minutes.

Now they have to watch out for Ohio State and Purdue. Purdue had some talented kids 2 years ago that are now coming into their own.

The schedule gets a little easier, although you can't take anyone for granted in this league.

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You didn't miss much and stomped pretty well sums it up after spotting Ohio State 11 pts. right out of the chute and coming back to within 3 in the second half. Another almost moral victory against one of the top 4 teams in the Big Ten although Tubby's T was fun to watch. His antics brought back memories of Clem in his heyday. Let's hope the Gophs can get back on track, pick up a win against a Michigan team they should beat and build on that. Talk of an NCAA berth seems to have been dropped from the vocabulary concerning this team and at this point, justifiably so. They still play tough D, cause a lot of havoc with turnovers, just need to capitalize on it.

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