How could you?( a dogs story)

[SCUMFROG]

WOW.

You guys need to look at your own avitars. Most of you have a picture of YOUR DOG. And yet it's "just a dog" How many of you have kids and a wife? Why not use a picture of them?

And for you cw642, a dog loves you and thinks of you as a member of it's pack. Yea I said "IT'S PACK" As for a dog wanting to please it's self first is not true. They want to please you and they do this by running though the swamps after you kill a bird. Why do you run out there and get it yourself?

I have 3 dogs none of them are hunting dogs. They are part of my life. Ever day I'm met at the door by them, there are happy to see me. No matter what kind of mood I'm in they don't care, they still love me and want to make me happy. They are inside dogs and very much part of my family. They are my best friends and I know they would give they're lives for me in an instant. How many friends do you have that would do that? I'd say none.

[DeanoB]

Yea I have read "How Could You?" before, I read it again tho. Call me what ya will but another one of the unaddressed problems this country has. It always makes me angry when you see dogs tied up, or living in the hot sun with little shade no cold water or be in the freezing cold with no blanket, and an ice cube to lick when the owner is gone 9-10 hours aday, how does this dog actually want to get all wet at daybreak for his jerk owner? I guess i will never know. I have 2 inside dogs, Boston Terrier and Pug, they chase rabbits, birds and squirels, they are part of our family, my kids would be devasted if anything happened to them, Someday we will be sad when they die, but death is part of life right? I mean we used to just take em out and shoot em when they got old right?

Semi related note:

First I pray for healing for the loss to this boys family.

Pitbull attack yesterday CHAINED PITBULL TEARS 7 YEAR OLD BOYS THROAT OUT poor 7 year old boy killed by his grandfathers pitpull before the dad could shoot it dead in the basement of a house in Minneapolis yesterday. Real good idea to keep them tied up on short leashes.

[cw642]

Frog, the pack idea is correct. The pleasing itself issue is easy to explain, even to a pet owner. When a pup is first born he doesn't understand that you are different than him. Therefore the theory of the pack is true. Thru proper socialization and positive physical contact they learn that we can cause them pleasure. This behavior is instilled in them at a young age before a owner ever sees the pup. It is the main job of the breeder after whelping the pups. An unsocialized pup will not show any "love" because it was not given the attention in the first 4-6 weeks. Most people don't realize this factor and therefore the theory of pleasing you comes into play. It is all about action and reaction. That is how a dog learns. Even in basic yard training every action has a reaction. You say sit push his rear down, and give him a pat on the head. After some time you say sit, he puts his rear down, you pat him on the head. At the same time if you say sit, he stays standing, you give the leash a tug, this gives him displeasure and he sits. Action, reaction.

To relate that to a bird dog everything that a dog does is for itself. It is breed into it's gene's to seek game. That is natural instinct, but that is where it ends. A dog if not trained would after finding game sit down and have itself a meal. That hunt for food is also its instinct, and that is where training and breeding come into play. Without those the dog would be no different than the wolf or coyote, hunt find eat. Man has trained it to do as we wish, and to think that it wants to give you a hunk of food it just reteived is obserd. Sure it would have swam out to get the food and bring it to shore but it was trained to drop it in your hand rather than eat it. A young pointer will point for a short time, but then will attempt to catch the bird. That is what he wants. Training teaches them to continue pointing untill we release them. They don't want to, but man has taught them to do as we wish.

CW

[LABS4ME]

Quote:

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Man has done no more than correct the dog's instinctive style of hunting, molding it to the convenience of collaberation.

Jose Ortega y Gasset,

Meditatations on Hunting

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This little quote I think fairly nails the reason they hunt for us on the head. They want to hunt because it's bred into their blood, we molded them into doing it for us.

CW has fairly well nailed it on the head. While dogs look at us as a member of their family, it is not a true 'love' emotion they are illiceting. I am fairly confident they are not capable of such emotions. That does not mean that there is not a bond (even a strong one) or that they are not fiercly loyal, but in the end they are happy to see you because you are the provider. You feed them, you let them out to run, they get 'em a milk bone and you scratch their belly... all things they want! They are excited to see you because they are going to get what "they" want. I agree that 90% of what makes up a dog is done so through positive / negative influences. Things that are positve make them 'happy', things that are negative make them not so happy.

The laying down their lfe for you is simply the act of defending members of the pack. It is a reaction to defend, not solely for you. but for them also. When they sense danger and fear and go into fight mode, it isn't a thought out decision to jump in front of a bullet for you but to stand up and take on the danger in an effort to save themselves and other members of the 'pack'.

If they could truley have a love emotion, wild dog species would never cast out members of their own litters to fend for themselves once they are brought to adulthood. They would continue to nurture them and help them through any tough times in order to succeed. Nature has developed them this way on purpose. Many times you will be killed by your parents if you try to come back into the pack... especially as a male.

Which brings me to a quote I learned from a well respected field trialer in 1990... I'll change the explitives to clean it up.

Quote:

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They're dogs..... they eat

dump

and breed their mothers!

Ray Vreeland

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I guess in the end, I can say this of everyone on this forum... We all love our dogs! Everyone to a different level. Some will elevate them to being an equal member to any other in their family, some love them solely as an efficient tool used for hunting on a par equal to a cowboy and his horse. I too love my dogs, I dread the day each and everyone leaves my side. I've cried worse than a baby several times I've had to say goodbye. I love the 'hunt' with a well trained dog, I love the spirit each one holds in them and the way they exude that spirit when they go about their work. But in the end, to me they are still 'just' a dog. An animal, but one I have forged a bond with to enjoy time spent together, doing something we are both passionate about.

Quote:

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Just because man no longer understands his place in the universe, don't let him assume all of God's creatures have become qually confused and trivial.

Bill Tarrant,

Hey Pup, Fetch it up!

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Quote:

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We never really own a dog as much as he owns us.

Gene Hill,

Brown Dog, Tears and Laughter

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Good Luck!

Ken

[Dahitman44]

Labs --

VERY well done.

Hit