Generator Safety.

[rocstar]

Looking at setting up an aluminum frame fish house with 110-volt system and the question of generator safety comes to mind. When using a generator, it is advisable to install a ground rod. But what does a person do on the ice and is it a concern? With a metal structure, should a person ground the electrical wiring system to the shack and or the electrical boxes? Looking for comments and some expert advise.

[waskawood]

I can't comment on grounding the frame and siding as I do not understand the National Electric Safety Code. The only thing I can say is that I would always use a ground fault interrupter.

Waska

[cold one sd]

Quote:

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Looking at setting up an aluminum frame fish house with 110-volt system and the question of generator safety comes to mind. When using a generator, it is advisable to install a ground rod. But what does a person do on the ice and is it a concern? With a metal structure, should a person ground the electrical wiring system to the shack and or the electrical boxes? Looking for comments and some expert advise.

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I don't think you will find a ground for a ground rod on the ice. I don't know what the codes are so I won't comment about grounding to the shack frame and skin.

[rocstar]

I always thought for a GFI to work properly, you needed to have a good ground.

[freezdried]

They will work just fine with out a ground because it monitor the line current and the neutral current and if they don't add up to the same value then it assumes that any extra current is going to a ground (like through you to a cold water pipe) Hope this helps

FD

[cold one sd]

I was working in an area about 10'x15' that was flooded during an emergency and it was about 4' deep. There was 440 volts going to the equipment cabin that I was working on and the breaker didn't blow. I asked the electrician on the scene why the water didn't cause the breaker to blow and he said that there wasn't enough mineralization in the water to get a good short. That is why I said you wouldn't get a good ground on the ice. If you were in shallow enough water to pound a ground rod into the bottom and attach to it, you should have a good enough ground. Only my .02.

[JCR]

When using a generator on the ice, or in a ice house, you do not need a ground. In fact it is an advantage that there is no ground. It is actually safer than when you are on land, because on land you are typically standing on ground and you can get shocked by touching a power source that has a neutral ground. A ground fault interupter is not necessary as there can be no ground current as nothing is grounded neither the neutral, line or ground.

[wayne123]

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[H20fowlr]

My quick comments after 10+ years working in the Power generatorion field.

1.The NEC (National Electric Code) does not cover mobile equipment. It would cover if you were to use it as a Rental unit to power a dwelling or building that is permanent structure.

2. There are codes to follow for RV, Marine and other mobile applications. I don't know which if any would cover a fishhouse. Ask one of the RV dealers how they ground the rv trailers.This I think would be the closest to the same application.

3. The Generator does not need to be grounded to operate. They operate in all different environments with a floating nuetral. However follow the code for the application you are using it in.

4.The GFCI on the portables is for three wire plugs that do have a ground circuit.

Just my $.02

[waterwolff]

The NEC does not require the frame of portable generators to be grounded and the frame can serve as the system ground provided you cord and plug the device into the outlet attached to the generator which is bonded to the frame of the generator. The NEC also states any 15-20 amp outlet located outdoors be GFCI protected. As far as wiring the structure I would employ the same wiring practices I would use in a home bond all current carrying parts, watch wire counts in boxes, hole set back's through framing members use strike plates, proper over current protection, bond all luminaries, receptacles, switches, the house is going to move so make sure as to not cause any pinch points that may damage the conductor. Hope this helps.

Mike

[JCR]

I aggree with Waterwolf, as far as wiring the ice house, because you, or somebody, may power the house someday on land from the power Co. Don't worry about a ground rod when using a generator on the ice, as I said you are safer there than on land using Power Co power.