cougars...

[Ron Burgundy]

OK! I'm not hunting cougars. I won't even see one. If I see one, and he or she makes a move, I make a move. I'm not going to shoot just because I see one. I just wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure the animals intentions. Good Lord! I'm not gonna go out there scared. You just never know what you might(however remote the possibility)see in the woods.

[thistlekicker]

Why don't you ask Sean Penn about cougars and how dangerous they are?

[KOTTKE]

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I'm not gonna go out there scared. You just never know what you

might

(however remote the possibility)see in the woods.

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This guy scares the hell out of me. He sounds like one of the guys I see walking the trails up north with his family in the summer time w/ a .357 strapped to his side "just in case!!!!" I'm sure he also ran out and was one of the first with a license to carry. People need to relax and understand these critters are out there for the same reason we are, to fill our stomachs only there not armed. I have also had bears poping there teeth, have also accidently come between a sow and her cubs, I have hunted near wolves for years and have survived so far. People just need to use caution and common sense, and if you just can't overcome your overwhelming fear of being someone elses meal stay out of the woods.

[Ron Burgundy]

Wow! NO I don't have a permit to carry. I never said the woods are crawling with cougars. I never said that an attack was likely. I would only be concerned about my wellbeing if anything like that ever happened. Or, should I be worried about the poor animal trying to kill me? Again, I know it will never happen. It's kind of like what would you do if you won the Powerball. You know it's not going to happen. Just a hypothetical question. Nothing to judge character or sanity from. How about this? If I was attacked by a cougar, I would be more worried about staying alive, than whether or not the big cat went hungry. Not that it is going to happen. Just in that 1 in 73 gazillion chance that it happened.

[Freckles]

I live in central Minnesota where it seems there has been a lot of couger sitings. Three years ago I was Elk hunting on a private ranch in Steamboat Spring Col. I had to walk about one mile(In the dark ) to my stand in the morning. On the trip to my stand I had to go around a mud puddle on the old dirt trail. I finaly got to my stand. Shortly I could hear nioses behind me. This went on until I left and headed back to camp around 11:00a.m. As I reached the spot where I had went around the mud puddle I noticed that there were couger tracks over mine that I had made this morning. They were also going the same direction as when I came in. At the point I started to speed up . Its unreal how sore you neck gets when your running and trying to look behind you. Whe I got to camp I told the guys what had happened and my nephwew said that a couger will accually stalk a person. The next three days I chose a differant area to hunt.

Freckles

[Blaze]

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People need to relax and understand these critters are out there for the same reason we are, to fill our stomachs only there not armed.

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True, however, I'm not gonna pet the stupid kitty as he's trying to rip my throat out of my neck "because he needs to eat" or because he's a "rare" animal (including cougars, wolves, or Sasquatches for that matter).

All that RB said is that he values HIS welfare more than than of an animal, just as I do. I agree 100% that if a cougar made any agressive moves toward me, I'd empty my gun on him. If you didn't like the way RB stated it, grow up and get over it instead of degrading a man for stating that he'd defend himself.

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This guy scares the hell out of me....if you just can't overcome your overwhelming fear of being someone elses meal stay out of the woods.

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Likewise, Kottke, if you can't overcome your overwhelming fear of hunting discussions on fm, stay off the internet.

[Rotwieler]

i hunt outside duluth and a cougar has been spotted three times over the years by my neighbor the first time was when it ate his dog, while it was chained to its dog house. anyways from what ive seen on nature channels and read in books. cougars have trouble differentiating between normal prey and humans. in almost every instance where a person has been attacked in the U.S. it has been joggers or bikers. they seen something running away and it triggers them to think it is prey. also with most big cats they attack from behind, loggers in india wear masks backward to keep tigers from attacking. in most cases if a moutain lion jumps you they can be fought off. just remember if you are attacked they kill by going for the neck either sufficating or severing they spinal cord.

you should be fine though because humans are a last resort for food most attacks are accidental and once you start fighting back they run off. theres plenty of deer for them.

theres my tidbits about cougars

[Ely Lake Expert]

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People need to relax and understand these critters are out there for the same reason we are, to fill our stomachs only there not armed.

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True, however, I'm not gonna pet the stupid kitty as he's trying to rip my throat out of my neck "because he needs to eat" or because he's a "rare" animal (including cougars, wolves, or Sasquatches for that matter).

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Sasquatches LMAO

This topic is quite funny, personally I don't really have any major fear of any of these animals. Especially cougars since I have never seen one. Though I do gotta say one time while deer hunting, sitting up in the stand in a clearcut with a swamp on both sides of me I had kind of a freaky experience. About 30 minutes before dark (full moon night), I started hearing alot of howling from the swamps on both sides of me. Then right at dusk when I could barely see, 4 large timberwolves walked out of the swap on one side of me and their had to be many more in the swamps. Anyway, I felt that they were still at a comfortable enough distance from me that I got down. Never before was I so happy to have my fourwheeler right at the bottom of the ladder. Anyway I instantly jumped on it and hightailed it out to the road. (My gun found its way back into the case once I got to the road.)

Also on the subject of animal fears, anyone ever have any interesting moose encounters? I have had one walk up to me while I was in the deer stand, litterally barely out of arms reach away. I have also driven up on a couple of them while riding my wheeler. I have a buddy who goes into the boundry waters alot and he has had a cow charge him while portaging and has had a bull charge/swim at him while canoeing down a river.

[tealitup]

I have had a bull moose charge me and hit the tree head on which I was using for cover.

Had one under my stand sleeping for an hour and when he stood I touched his antlers with my foot.

[Reynolds]

I believe last year there was a tidbit on the news about a cougar spotted in the woods near the edge of a hiking trail in the Twin Cities. There also was an article in the Star Tribune not long after in the Outdoors section about cougars being spotted in St. Paul along the banks of the river. I believe that the DNR also confirmed they had found cougar tracks in that area.

[big drift]

As far as as encounters with animals resulting in attacks I can think of a few right of the top of my head.

The sow bear in the BWCA in 87.

The researcher down by Mille Lacs a few years ago

The martial arts guy in central Minnesota last week (his second in Minnesota)

I know there is a confirmed wolf killing of a human in Ontario this year.

Oh yeah the lady that was attacked walking her dog by Duluth.

I did email the DNR asking for numbers so we will see what they have recorded and I will post it up.

It is not unheard of hear. My family farms down in Morristown area and I remember a couple of instances with Coyotes that were pretty hairy. they were mostly dealing with Rabies or Mange if I recall correctly.

[McGurk]

Please do post those, and then the number of people walking, jogging, and otherwise just being outside NOT getting attacked. Also post the number of people (hunting or not) mistakenly shot by hunters in the same time period. I can think of 2 right off the top of my head from just last year. It is not unheard of, but I'd have to say that the chances of getting mauled and killed by a cougar in the woods have to be far less than hitting a deer with your vehicle on the way home from camp and getting killed. Worry about what you want, though. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I will agree that rabies and coyotes are not to be taken lightly, either.

[BobT]

How about the odds of just getting home without getting into a fatal car accident much less narrowing the odds to just those involving a deer? Typically 42,000 annually. 1 in every 1750 persons.

Or the potential for becoming a victim of murder? 15,000 annually. 1 in every 20,000 persons.

Wonder how many out of the hunters, hikers, campers, bikers, etc. are killed by cougars, bears, and wolves annually.

Bob

[Ufatz]

Big Drift: Can you provide documentation regarding a wolf killing a human in Canada? Please cite a source. What were the circumstances? Who reported this wolf kill.

If you, or your source, can be checked out and verified it would be the first documented killing of a human, by a wild, free roaming wolf, in North America.

Please follow up so we don't just have another nonsensical,hysterical wild animal kill story floating around out there....confusing the already confused and dumbing down the already dumb.

Thanks.

[snapcrackpop]

The article was in Outdoor Life this year.

It is documented.

[big drift]

Well it hit the CBC and the RCMP on 10 November 2005 incident occured in Saskatchewan the guy (Kenton Joel Carnegie 22) was from ontario. Also another man with witnesses named Fred Desjarlais was attacked in the same area and survived in January of 2005 within 200yds. of the Mining Camp he was at. Both these attacks were near Wollaston Lake.

Also the First Nations tribal Enforcement and OPP have at least two missing persons that were located and possibly killed by wolves based on bite patterns and hair fibers but since no eye witnesses it was just listed as animal attack even though bite pattern analysis and tissue located under the nails were DNA tested and shown to be from wolves.

Furthermore video and eyewitness documented attacks occured at the Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario. But that is a whole different chapter starting in the 80's.

The history of wolf attacks further dates back to Europe with multiple attacks documented in countries primarily like Norway Sweden and Finland but also Spain see the National Geopgraphic documents. John James Audobon reported in 1830 of two black men attacked in Kentucky near the Ohio border one injured one killed. He is fairly reliable I am told. G.B.(George Bird) Grinell reported in the book "The trail and campfire" printed 1897 a documented attack that occured in NW Colorado in the summer of 1881. That was a standing incident until the original report was lost and the pro wolf folks decided it did not happen since it was not on paper. Another was the 1942 attack on the Canadian Pacific Railway that was documented by Investigator Crichton of the RCMP a Conservation officer. Heck look at the December 2000 January 2001 Sports Afield Magazine on page 21 for a photo of a 6 year old boy attacked by and rescued from a wolf by loggers. In many of these instances and others i have found most of the wolves were healthy and acting in what is described as Sport Killing where the pack attacks a prey target for fun and practice and to decide the condition of the prey. You can see the same behavior in the National Parks out west during the winter by looking at the Elk and Deer herds and see their haunches, noses and lips tore out I have seen this personally growing up in Western Montana near Glacier National Park.

The issue is encroaching people and animals that have depleted their natural food source by lack of hunting. I know several federal Game Wardens from Alaska and Military Police Patrolmen that have had aggressive ebncounters with wolves and those are case documented atthe Military Police Regimantal Headquarters.

So between all these folks I would say yeah attacks have occured and with increasing frequency. I just wish the USFWS would start to acknowledge some others that have been claimed but due to relocation efforts the incidents have been brushed over.

As far as checking me out for reliability I am a Criminal Investigator for a Law Firm where I work cases in Tribal, State, and Federal Courts, I am a former Military Police Officer graduated Ft.McClellan AL in 1987, I have formerly worked felony level juvenile corrections, I am a former Federal Police Officer I have attended the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia New Mexico. Some of the moderators here know me personally and professionally.

Sorry if this brusque but the tone it came off is one I felt needed to be responded to. I cannot stand innuendo, my apologies if it is out place.

big drift

[love to hunt]

Interesting read and very well done.

I agree 100%.

I see wolves every year at both work and while hunting. Though all have turned and not been a bother I still use caution and have respect.

[McGurk]

Thanks for the response, big drift, and I admire and respect the work that you do. Thank You. I still feel there are many things more likely to happen to anyone of us on a day to day occurance. If I was to worry about Cougar/Wolf attacks with their relatively low chance of happpening in addition to all of the other things that are more likely to happen, I'd be in the fetal postion in the basement sucking my thumb crying. And then I could die from carbon monoxide poisoning, so I don't even have my safe haven down there.

Should we be aware that it could happen? Yes. It just seems like this molehill is being perceived as a mountain in this particular discussion, with no mention of another post about hunter safety and driving habits, recently anyway. There are areas in our great state that may have an issue, but most of the people hunting there are already aware of the "danger". Just trying to throw a rational swing on this.

There were cougar sightings and tracks in the Minnesota River valley a couple of years ago in the Metro area, with no issues. And imagine all of the unknowing, untrained people walking along the miles and miles of maintained trails with their little woof-woof on a leash. Appetizer and Main Course, right there. Yet, no attacks.

[big drift]

I agree that is the my position also do not let the possibility of an incident affect your hunting just be cautious of the area you are in and the signs your presented with.

One story I would like ot share is when I was about 8 years old and we were horse riding just out side Bob Marshall Wilderness area in Montana. This is the late 70's a good friend of ours was riding trail behind my brother and I as we going along a trail below a ridgeline he called up to us and said just keep riding as he was pulling a rifle out of his scabbard. At the crest we waited for him and he said now look over there and we could see a large lion laying just above the trail we had rode over. This older guy used to be a federal trapper for the Feds and when asked by my dad why he did not shoot Tom replied well it weren't hunting us now was it. We were within 20 yards of it and never heard or saw it. Tom had only seen it due to the tail tip that peeked out from the trees.

By the by anyone hear anything of the grouse hunters dog up by I falls that was taken just recently?

bd

[Ufatz]

Okay Big Drift. You did just as I asked. You see, forty years in Alaska and responsible positions in various agencies has made me a little suspicious of second and third and fourth hand reports of bear and wolve attack and confrontations.There have been questions about some of the incidents you cite, but that is ALWAYS possible. What I try to counteract is the tendency toward hysteria in these forums over wolf and cat attack potential. Hell, I've been more threatened a couple of times by moose that ever by a bear and I've been within three feet of a BIG bear! HA!

I will try to find something regarding the latest incident you refer to. I have been and remain somewhat skeptical about some of the others, as do some pretty serious wildlife and wolf biologists.

Thank you for doing a good job of defending your statements and position. It is what we need MORE of around here.

[Ron Burgundy]

It's like in Dumb and Dumber. When Jim Careys character asks the hot chick if she'd ever date a guy like him. She says something like there's a one in a milliion chance, and he says..."So You're saying there's a chance!" That's all.

[Ely Lake Expert]

lol,

very funny ron. That movie is a classic

[Kodiak]

omg another huge cat thread, seems like we have one every year.