Advice on strange behavior

[jlm]

Last night I was working with my dog. We spent about 20 minutes with the bumpers with the normal routine. For fun, I usually throw the frisbee for him for a few minutes following our normal workout. He is a yellow lab about 1.5 years of age and is in great shape. I noticed that he was getting more winded than usual and he drooled a little more than usual. I had him sit down to take a break. When he began walking again, he acted as though he was dizzy or dunk and kind of wobbled around. I made him lay down and he kind of just fell to the ground. There was obviously something wrong with him. I got him some water which he drank and more than usual. About half an hour later, he was back to his normal self. My first thought was heat exhoustion but it was too cool outside. My second thought was dehydration. What are your thoughts on this one? Any help would be great!

[Eric Wettschreck]

I'm no vet, but your doggie may still have some of his winter coat. This will heat him up a lot faster. My 2 dogs have been shedding like mad. I notice my GSP tiring sooner than he did last fall, and drinking more water than usual.

If it were me I'd slow things down a bit and make sure he has plenty of water. If it's due to him still having leftovers of a winter coat it will shed off soon.

[marine_man]

I'm pretty sure my 1 year old chocolate lab still has some of his winter coat left also... he's been shedding, but it's evident that he's warming up quicker than normal during training sessions, which I've cut the time back on until he's lost all his winter coat...

marine_man

[fishnhooks]

My lab gets tired alot sooner right now as well, I figure it to be his winter coat and although he looks to be in great shape, he is probably a little out of shape from the winter. For right now I just have to shorten training times and make him stop during playing to take breaks, even if he don't want to.

"hooks"

[LABS4ME]

JLM, don't know the lines of your dog, but several of the latest and greatest trial dogs are throwing a condition called "exercise induced collapse". Watch out for this! I'm not saying this is what your dog has, but keep an eye out for it. It is a metabolic disorder (at least that's what they feel they have it narrowed down to), manifests itself around 1-2 years of age. The dog can usually withstand 10-20 minutes of training and begins to show signs. The beginning symptoms are as you described, up to full blown collapse with unconsciousness and if I remember siezures, death can and does happen. Generally these dogs can not be used for trials and rarely anything more strenuous than VERY casual hunting.

He may also have shown a little heat stress as stated or been a little hypo-glycemic. Try to get him wet before and during training to see if that would help.

I'd continue training as usual and monitor him. If he again shows signs of this, get him to a vet. Quiz him on the E.I.C. to see if they feel it could be that. If it turns out to be this, go back to your breeder and discuss this with them and use your guarantee as you probably will not be able to make a hunting dog out of him.

Let's hope it was just a simple case of over heating and not E.I.C., potential buyers of Labs need to find out if the lines they are looking at are clear of this disorder as it is something even worse than bad hips! We also need to get ahead of it by making it well known to lab owners and potential breeders.

Good Luck!

Ken

[jlm]

Labs, I was hoping that you would respond. As always, I learned something new from you. This is the first time this has ever happened. I have never seen even a slight sign of this ever in this dog. Is this something that gradually comes on or something that all the sudden shows up? I think the hypoglycemic theory also may hold some merit, he will forget to eat sometimes and will go all day without food despite it being available to him. I did notice that prior to starting our routine, his dish was still full. I did not want him to eat prior to our training to minimize stomach complications. He seemd to recover fast with water and a little food. However, I will do as you suggested with monitoring him. Thank you very much for the good advice and the response to this! I really appreciate it as always!

[LABS4ME]

JLM, I only know what I learned from Dr. Smith on this disease... As far as I'm privvy to, it just comes on. She was telling me about a client who had a derby dog, that just got it's QAA and was about to start running some opens when the dog collapsed... this was with the trainer in Texas. It continued to do so every time it was trained more than 10 minutes. Fran explained that the dog could easily die, but he wanted to get it's title so it could be bred... I hope he took her advise for the sake of the dog and future puppy buyers and retired it and didn't breed it.

I personally know of one dog who had re-occurring hypo-glycemia, we just took extra efforts to make sure he ate a couple hours before he trained or hunted and we never had a problem. The only times we did were during hot days when he had little to eat... sounds like your situation. Make sure they eat and drink a couple hours before training or they completely eat their meal if you schedule feed. In fact if you have a picky eater, schedule feeding will usually solve that situation. Schedule feed them once or twice a day. Don't leave the food available for more than 15 minutes. Every dog I've owned has been schedule fed it's whole life, and they never and I mean never leave a kibble in their bowl. I feed them every night at 6-7 and they are good to go all the next day.

Good Luck!

Ken

[jlm]

Yes, I agree with the scheduled feeding and I follow a schedule very well. However, somedays this dog will still have food in the bowl when I go to feed in the evening. I do feed the recommended amount as well. He is just a different dog all together. They say a dog is a reflection of its owner....jeez I sure hope not! Anyway, thanks again for the great advice! I will keep posting if I have any other problems!

[jblabsnduck]

I have had that happen to one of my dogs and I was told he was dehydrated(SP). I got him some water and he drank it like there was not tommoroww and he was fine a half hour later but I did take him to the local vet.(we where out of town hunting)

You need to watch it if your dog still has his winter coat.

When it happened to me was in the late fall when he was getting his winter coat.

If i do any training right now it is only for about 5-10 minutes until they lose that winter coat.

[Bushwacker]

Labs4Me,

I have a question about EIC for you. Sorry for the long post. I have a very healthy and athletic 16 month female lab. She has had two episodes of a stange dizziness where her back legs seem to go out from under her. She hunts very hard and she can run all day. The episodes come after she has been corrected with an e-collar. It could be early in a hunt or after a full day of hunting. It took me these two time to see the correlation between the corrections and the dizziness. The first time was early in the season(her first wild pheasant hunt) and she took off after a hen and did not respond to the whistle so I corrected her on a level 20 out of 100 on her Dogtra 1200NCP. Two minutes later she was acting like she was going to collapse. I gave her water and we headed back to the vehicle. She was good to go and trying to hunt on the walk back. Absolutely no signs of trouble. The other time was the same type of deal, except it was mid 40's and after about three hours of hunting, driving, resting and hunting, she took off on a scent and got way too far out of range and she would not come back on the whistle, she had a rooster cornered down about 150 yards away that I didn't know until I had to walk all the way over there. I tried using the collar twice before walking over to her. Same thing again, after the flush and retrieve she lost control of her back end. I gave her water, a couple treats and she was good to go again. It is a very scary deal though when it happens she just keeps trying to go but is just too dizzy. She is collar conditioned never has had any problem while training, and she has hunted 30-40 times last fall with just these two cases of problems. From what you know is this signs of EIC or just fatigue or dehydration?

Thanks.

[LABS4ME]

BW... I really don't know much about EIC other than what has been explained to me... fortunatley I've never witnessed it. It is my understanding that the dog literally will "collapse", I don't think it is limited to one half of the body. I've been told the dog will go down even with limited training time, some after only 5-6 retrieves.

You sound like you have something else going on... I find it interesting to see the correlation between the collar and her episodes... I'm not a vet, but it sounds like something nueorlogical, (like overstimulation at that moment causes a response in the nervous system) between the electrical stimulation and loss of control. I'd talk to a vet a get their take on it. If you need to make an appointment with someone whom I regard as the best all around sporting dog vet, call Fran Smith at Smith Veternery Clinic in Burnsville (it's worth the drive). She is the one who told me about EIC (when it was 1st becoming evident, before other vets had heard of it) and is herself one of the most respected breeders of Labs in the country. If I ever have a perplexing problem with my dogs, this is where I take them, her knowledge will astound you!

Let us know if you find anything out!

Good Luck!

Ken