Choosing a new pup

[Fishaholic2011]

I'm looking at purchasing a new pup soon, leaning towards a British lab. I waterfowl hunt 60-70 days a year including early and late goose season and spend about 200 days a year on the water fishing, all of that time will be spent with my new dog. We all know how important it is to pick the right dog being your going to spend the next 10-12 years with them and its not like your going to return them if the dog is not what you hoped for. I have only purchased one pup in my life and I now realize how lucky I was that I happen to get an outstanding dog. This time I want to do whatever possible to get the best dog available. Any advice on how to do so would be appreciated, also not sure exactly what to look for in bloodlines.

[TylerS]

First, I'd tell this to the breeder and ask for his or her opinion. If it's a reputable breeder with a lot of experience, they should have a pretty good idea of a puppy that will suit you.

But just remember, no matter what, it's a crapshoot.

If you're a hunter, the one thing people will tell you is to look for boldness. Look at the first puppies that come up and investigate you, and dismiss pups that cower or hide. Is this 100 percent bullet proof? Not at all, but some people swear by it.

I'll give you an example of going against the grain. When we went to pick out our GWP, there were four males left from a 12-pup litter. Remy stuck out like a sore thumb because he was the only liver and ticked pup left, while the remaining three were solid liver. My wife and I kind of watched the four mess around for a bit, and then the breeder said, "Ok, stand back, we're going to open the gate and let them run around the yard."

This is what made the decision for me: those three liver pups shot off like rockets as soon as the door opened, but not Remy. He sat down at the edge, looked up at us, and seemed to be assessing us just as much as we were scrutinizing him.

Eventually Remy did follow his brothers out into the yard, but we were sold. I figured any dog that didn't bolt at the first sign of freedom, was a keeper.

Fast forward to today, and Remy is, without a doubt, one of the best decisions we've ever made. But we did our homework with the breeder, and I also spent a TON of time working him over the summer.

I think, if you go to a breeder that has a solid background, and you have the patience and fortitude to put in the time with your pup, you can't make a run decision when picking them out.

[mainbutter]

one thing I have to say is:

how do you get away with spending practically an entire year fishing and hunting?

If I spent that much time away from my home, I'd not only be broke and my girl would leave me, but the trash would never get taken out!

Just like TylerS said, and I feel it needs reiteration, getting an initial meet and greet with potential pups is huge. You CAN learn a lot about a dog and some of the traits it will express throughout its life from a small amount of time before making any decisions.

There are plenty of great bloodlines out there. There are also plenty of rescue mutts that make great hunting dogs as well. Finding a good bloodline and breeder isn't hard, but putting in the extra effort to screen a few groups of potential pups in person will give you a huge advantage over someone who just picks a pup from a picture on the internet and a recommendation or two.

No two pups are the same. No pup will be exactly like its parents. Some traits and personality CAN vary wildly despite all our efforts to create specific qualities in dog breeds. You really just need to screen numbers to find 'the one'.. the more you check out in person, the better your chances of picking out a pup that will be what you have in mind.

[B-man715]

one thing I have to say is:

how do you get away with spending practically an entire year fishing and hunting?

That's what I was thinking. Quit looking for a dog and start looking for a job. J/K I really envy your ability to spend so much time outdoors You suck!

[Todd Caswell]

Decide the breed, find a litter you like, decide what sex, put all puppy's in a pen of the sex you have decided on, close your eyes and reach in and grab one. That simple, it's a dump shoot.

[corncob]

I have become convinced that when picking a pup from a litter you need to watch the pups interacting with themselves and people.......Don't pick the biggest ,or the most aggressive, or a shy one....Pick a pup that is "middle of the litter" as far as personality , size ,actions, etc.....Many pick the biggest or the wild one or the poor shy one....The big pup will simply likely be bigger, the aggresive one may well be an aggresive one when mature, and the shy one has a good chance of being a shy adult......Middle of the pack every time!

[870Express]

If I was able to waterfowl that often I'd look at a Chessie. Other than that, what Todd said above. A little research here will tell you a lot about British labs. Sift through the junk. The lab in general is a commonly bred dog. Each good breeder will be breeding for the traits and standards they think are most important. Find those out and you'll be fine. Then training starts and it gets interesting.

[Todd Caswell]

I have become convinced that when picking a pup from a litter you need to watch the pups interacting with themselves and people.......Don't pick the biggest ,or the most aggressive, or a shy one....Pick a pup that is "middle of the litter" as far as personality , size ,actions, etc.....Many pick the biggest or the wild one or the poor shy one....The big pup will simply likely be bigger, the aggresive one may well be an aggresive one when mature, and the shy one has a good chance of being a shy adult......Middle of the pack every time!

All great advise and I don't dissagree a bit but they do change personnality alot, almost impossible to tell at 8 weeks old. Some of the best and most talented FT dogs have been the left overs that no one wanted, wiche reminds me to post another suggestion, don't be affraid to take the " the left over " My best dog to date was a left over, a $1500 dollar pup I got for 500. My 2 worst I have had pick of the litter. Either I'm a bad picker or have bad luck... OR it doesn't matter..

[Kyhl]

I like to pick them when they are sleeping, then pick the one that is sleeping on top of the pile. He/she is generally the most confindent, all the rest belong to him/her.

Problem is, this one will try to train you.

[DaSwede]

I'm looking at purchasing a new pup soon, leaning towards a British lab. I waterfowl hunt 60-70 days a year including early and late goose season and spend about 200 days a year on the water fishing, all of that time will be spent with my new dog. We all know how important it is to pick the right dog being your going to spend the next 10-12 years with them and its not like your going to return them if the dog is not what you hoped for. I have only purchased one pup in my life and I now realize how lucky I was that I happen to get an outstanding dog. This time I want to do whatever possible to get the best dog available. Any advice on how to do so would be appreciated, also not sure exactly what to look for in bloodlines.

I'll be doing the same thing the end of May/early June. Here's an article that I found helpful. I'll PM it to you.

[Note from Admin: please read forum rules before posting again. Thank You]

Also, if you are going with a Brit Lab (I am too), you might want to look up and purchase Bill HIllmann's Training a Retriever Puppy DVD. It's expensive, but may be the best investment you make. I got my copy last week, and it looks like a great training video.

[gspman]

The key is to find the best litter you can that meets your requirements. Then just pick one you like.

[DaSwede]

From Bill Hillman on choosing a puppy:

One of the most talked about topics when retriever people get together - how to pick a puppy. In fact, it is one of the most common questions that people ask me. As with many topics, there are many opinions. Some people say that, and this is especially true of the old timers, the best way to pick a puppy is to just walk up to the liter, reach in and grab a puppy and take it home. The idea being that picking a puppy is virtually impossible, and so your chances of getting a good puppy by just grabbing one is as good as anybody else’s method, e.i. it is all luck any way.

Then are those that are very scientific in their evaluation, they have a whole list of tests that they believe will give them insight into which is the best puppy. These are things like stress tests, holding the puppy upside down and seeing which one squirms the most or least, putting the puppy on smooth surfaces, uneven surfaces, different surfaces etc. putting the puppy in mazes, isolating the puppy from its liter mates so on and so forth.

Then there are those that strictly look for the most aggressive puppy. They want the boldest most outgoing most energetic of the liter, thinking that somehow that this puppy will have more to offer than the others.

Then there are people, especially people that are not particularly performance oriented, that pick the sweetest puppy, the one that comes to them, the one that is the most loveable, the one that wants to be held the most, thinking that in the end this is the puppy that will become part of the family and have the best temperament for their kids etc.

Also, there are those that are looking for the most independent puppy. The one that is off by themselves, that seems to enjoy being alone who seems to be his own little person and is basically uninterested in the other puppies. The thought being that this is the character that will be able to handle new situations, to be comfortable with new places, etc. Even thought it may seem obvious to some that this type of puppy may indeed be the hardest to train.

I suppose that there is some value in all of these ideas, but when I carefully thought about the way that I pick puppies it seemed to me that I was quite different from the thoughts that I have just mentioned. First of all, the single most important factor to me is to find out which of the puppies will look me in the eye. In other words, which puppy do I have eye contact with. This to me is a characteristic that is difficult to describe, but I know without it, I will have my hands full in the training process. That one characteristic somehow seems to balance the temperament and intelligence and the probability of a dog that is the easiest to train. Secondly, I want to consider the structure of the puppy. I want to look at each puppy and see if they are any distinguishing characteristics in their movements and they way they are put together physically. Probably the most important is the balance and the fact that I want their front legs under them, not pushed out to the side like a bulldog. I want to pick a puppy that seems balanced and coordinated in his movement. Certainly you don’t want to end up with a puppy that is somehow physically deficient. Thirdly, in many liters you are trying to in some way duplicate the characteristics of ether the mother or the father, so if you have a really strong attraction, as an example the father, don’t pick a puppy that looks just like the mother. This seems a little odd, but over the last many years I have seen this pattern, e.i. the way a puppy looks many times gives it many of the same characteristics of the parent that it looks like. Lastly, and something that is hard to explain and maybe can only come with a lot of experience, is to use your instinct. There is no way to describe this, but many times I have been lead to pick a certain puppy, strictly by instinct. It is almost a force that guides your hand towards a certain puppy. A feeling that the one you are reaching for will be the dog you have been looking for.

A couple years ago a well known professional commented to me that based on the number of successful puppies that I have started, I must have a huge percentage of washouts. The truth is I have almost none because I firmly believe that every puppy has ability, especially in the case of well bred puppies. The idea of training is to devote yourself to a project that will bring out the best in each puppy. This is complicated and involves the word that I just used, devotion to the training process. That means discovering a weakness and trying to make it a strength, seeing something that you don’t like and turning it in to something that you do like, keeping a strong and positive attitude, having patience, developing skills, and then practicing until you have developed a dog that you have always been looking for.

Color

Size

Health clearances

Breeding

Happy puppy training!

[LABS4ME]

As a breeder, over the years I have morphed the puppy selection process to one that I for the most part guide the 'picking' process. I don't go so far as some breeders do and hand you a puppy the day of purchase, but I listen to what your intentions are for the dog (pet, trial, test, hunting etc.), what size you are looking for, sex, and then begin to follow the development of the litter and isolate puppies based on traits that I see and 'place' them with their owners. With that siad, I do let the new owners vistit them and have a say in which pup they are leaning towards, but ultimately very few people would have any idea what it is they are looking at and greatly accept my reasoning and why I am gearing them towards a specific pup.

It has worked well on the last half dozen or so litters I've had and it gives confidence to those buying the last pup or two that they are not necassarily getting the 'left overs', that their criteria is in the mix just as much as the first person to lay down a deposit.

I agree with Todd though that in the end it is a dump shoot. I have seen the last pup in the litter become the shining star and I have seen pick of the litter pups totally become busts. The best you can do is pick the breeding you are comfortable with and move forward with the pup and a good training program. Talk to your breeder, see if they have any insight as to certain attributes of each pup and use those as a guide as to which you will select from.

Good Luck!

Ken

[duckbuster]

THANK YOU Swede for sharing that portion of the Hillman transcript. I found the "eye contact" part to be very interesting. I have learned over the years that eye contact does get over looked and it is a very important ingredient to the training you are about to start.

I agree with Todd and LABS in that finding the litter is first and for most on the list. Once you find the litter that brings to the table the attributes you are looking for from the parents then it is a matter of you finding the young pup that meets your criteria.

I get to do this later in the year and have started my search for possible litters that might take place around the country where I like both the female and the male

Have fun with it and GOOD LUCK!!!!

[Fishaholic2011]

Today is one of the hardest days of my life, I had to put down my best friend today, she was 12.5 yrs old. Last November the vet told us she had cancer and only 4-8 weeks to live, I guess we were fortunate to be able to spoil her rotten for 5 months. She went downhill fast the last couple days, we new it was time.

Sorry if anyone took the amount I hunt or fish differently than what I was trying to get across. I'm sure some people spend more time with their dog than I do, but I was just trying to paint a picture of how much of my life is spent with my dog.

To answer your question, here are the main reasons I get to fish and hunt so much;

1) My wife accepts how much I love to hunt and fish

2) Being self employed I'm able to leave my mornings open during hunting season

3) I live on a lake so any free time is enough time to hop in the boat (not sure how hard this will be without my dog)

4) I don't have any kids

I have decided to get a British Lab and I did get on a waiting list. I would like a female but gender is not real important to me. The females in this upcoming litter should be 55-60 lbs. Should I be concerned about a 55 lb dog hauling a big Canadian Goose across corn stubble or a chisel plowed field? My lab that just passed was 70lbs with somewhat short legs, I had to teach her to grab the goose in a certain spot so she was n't tripping on or dragging the goose back. Once she learned this it was no problem, but I question a dog 20 lbs less being able to make it work. The breeder is telling me the dog will have no problem retrieving geese but I'm a little concerned.Your thoughts please.

[LABS4ME]

Sorry for the loss... I have personally had labs in the mid-40s pund range have no problem with geese. You'll be fine.

Good Luck with the new pup and keep us posted when you get her and how she advances...

Ken