Do bigger minnows catch bigger crappies?

[BLACKJACK]

I've always used small to medium crappie minnows for crappies but last night I was running out, so the minnows that I was using kept getting bigger, and thats when I started catching some bigger crappies! I've experimented in the past with bigger minnows even small shiners, hoping to catch bigger fish, but it seemed like they wouldn't bite. What do you guys think?

[Guest]

It's always a good idea to try a bigger jig, or a bigger minnow on your set-up to see if the bigger fish will strike it.

It's totally a matter of aggression here. Sometimes, even if bigger fish aren't present, a bigger jig will trigger the small to medium fish that seemed apprehensive to bite before. Other times, like you stated, it discourages the smaller ones, and triggers the bigger ones to strike. And at some points, neither size range will do a thing when faced a larger morsule.

I guess that's why we have such a variety of tackle in our arsenals for different conditions and situations.

It's never an exact science. It's always trial and error. It is fishing.

Good fishing,

PCG

[Guest]

PCG,

Well put, if you find a school fish it. Like you said, we are just giving advice on finding those true slabs.

I also have had experience with the first few fish that come through the hole to be the biggest. I suppose that is because the larger fish have dominance over the smaller ones and attack the bait first. Another explaination could be that after you catch a few fish all the smaller ones show up and drive the larger ones away. All the commotion stirrs up those smaller scavengers. And like you said, the larger fish typically swim in schools and when these smaller schools roam in the larger ones vacate the area.

You mentioned something about the large crappies be schooled higher in the water column. I have typically found that the more aggressive crappies school higher. Sometimes if I let the jig fall through the suspended fish I seem to find a larger one near the bottom. But I always fish the highest fish first so I don't disturb the school. By aiming for the higher suspended crappies you have a better chance of preserving the school and keeping them form scattering.

Good Fishin, Matt.

[Guest]

Well said and very true

[This message has been edited by Pro Crappie Guide (edited 12-11-2002).]

[Guest]

It all depends on the mood of the fish. Some days crappies will only take maggots and other days only minnows. There are a lot of variations that come into play when fishing for crappies and trying to establish certain presentations. For one, I wouldn't necessarily say that larger minnows will catch larger crappies. It is possible of course that if you drop a larger minnow down that you might come up with a 15 incher but its also possible that that same crappie might have bit on a small crappie minnow or even maggots.

Crappies go through a series of feeding patterns during the ice fishing season. During first ice crappies tend to be more aggressive and in turn, if you find an active pod of fish they will devour most baits that you put infront of them. This window of opportunity isn't always true and in some cases will only last a couple weeks. This is one of the reasons why you catch an abundance of crappies during first ice, among other factors. But since we are talking about feeding patterns I'll stick with the task at hand.

Since we are currently in or just catching the tail end of the first ice period that can explain part of the larger crappies taking the larger baits. Fish are feeding competively and the larger fish get first dibs. Also, smaller crappies might but reluctant to bite larger baits because they are filled up by larvae and plankton. Larger crappies will often times chase baitfish through narrows and back waters/bays during first ice and are looking for more of a "piece of meat" then are the smaller crappies. And since you provided and prime example of what they are looking for the actually "take the bait." Once the season progresses these largers crappies will settle for less and become intent on striking smaller presentations like maggots and scuds. That is not say that these larger crappies wont still stumble upon a nice shiner once in a while.

You also stated that you caught these larger crappies as the day went on. You will find that most crappies feed primarily at night due to an advantage in vision, so it's not uncommon to catch larger more intelligent, as you will, crappies that feed later in the day more towards twilight periods. Its also a possiblilty that larger crappies were hanging near by and came over once a larger offering was presented. Since the smaller crappies neglected the offering the larger crappies came in for the kill. If you had a king size snickers in front of you and a snack size which one would you take. I know that this can be the case for all sizes of crappies but since the larger crappies are more dominent and are competing for food they win the battle. A larger presentation with more attraction characteristics also will draw in fish from a distance. Just as you use search lures for perch on the flats you can use larger minnows for crappies off edges. There could have been a school of 13 inchers sitting outside the group of smaller crappies all along and they were waiting until they saw something of interest. Or it could have just been their time to feed.

All these factors come into play. Where these times where larger minnows didn't catch fish early or in the middle of the season? Are these offerings naturally present in the lake? Daytime, nighttime? Fishing pressure? A lot of things need to be examined will you fish. Crappies are especially fixated on sense of appeal. Maybe on thst day the crappies wanted something more then a maggot or small minnow, I don't know, but stick with what catches fish and if something isn't working switch presentations. One of things that I never understand when I go ice fishing is why do some people leave the same presentation in the water the whole day, and then they complain why they don't catch fish. If you're sitting out there staring at hole for an hour and nothing happens I think its about time to either move or switch your offering.

I agree with PCG. It's always a good option to try a larger presentation if you can't get fish to bite. Often times a larger presentation will trigger those negative fish into biting. A lot of ice fishermen think that they need to go smaller when fishing is slow. That may be the case but don't neglect going larger. A lot of times its making that step up that gets you somewhere.

I hope this makes sense. If you have any other questions or something feel free to drop me an e-amil.

([email protected])

Good Fishin, Matt.

[Guest]

One other point. Crappies typically school by size. However, that can mean many things. Alot of times in the winter it means they are schooled by size in layers. Meaning different sized fish as you explore the depths of the water column.

Sometimes the big ones will be on top, suspended highest among the school, and other times they will be the bottom feeders.

Your FL-8 is a great tool to detirmine the size of the fish. I can usually tell, on ice or open water, what the average size of fish in a school of Crappies is by the signal and way the fish appeared to be schooled on the graph. This can make for quicker contact with larger fish, however I also find that the first one or two fish out of the hole are typically the bigger ones.

Bottom line, cut the dump, fish a school and catch some fish. Matt and I are just trying to cut through the average 9" Crappie and help with more productivity for catching the Slab sized Crappies on a more consistent basis...

PCG

[BLACKJACK]

Thanks PCG and MJ, I can see you're both passionate about your crappie fishing! I also love to fish crappies. My fishing buddy is away to school this week, and he likes to fish walleyes, so this week in his absence I've been going after crappies. Speaking of walleyes/crappies, do you ever run into many spots where you can catch both walleyes and crappies?

It seems like the shallower lakes that I fish don't have the 'columns of fish' that you describe, but I have seen that on deeper lakes. Thats where the Vex really shines, allowing you to 'see' and target the fish at 20 feet when you're in 35 feet of water. At what depth of lake do you normally see that column affect?

Another question: I've been hustling home from work and getting out fishing by 4. Right away I'm marking fish near the bottom, but I can't get them to bite and I don't know what they are. After awhile they disapear, but then a crappie bite starts about 5:30. I've tried a wax worm, a plain hook with a small minnow, jigging, I can't get a bite to see what they are. This lake has sunfish in it, the older guys are sitting there and they report getting a mix of sunfish and a few crappies in the afternoon. What rig would you use to catch one of these first fish?

Another comment. We all have been been conditioned in recent years - glow jig, glow jig, glow jig, but after reading some of the posts here on the forum, I rigged up one of my rods with a plain Gamagatsu hook with a sinker and ice buster bobber. The other night I caught twice as many crappies on the plain hook and minnow as the glow jig!

[Deitz Dittrich]

Just to re-say what MJ5 said... I think if you want to pull the bigger fish out of a school... It VERY important to keep pulling fish off the top of the school... I think once you hook a larger fish from the bottom of a school of fish you put that entire school on more of an alert, if conditions are tough you may be shooting yourself in the foot.

As for the big bait big fish debate- My opinion is this... If conditions are right, meaning barametric pressure either stable or dropping I will often try a larger minnow to see if that will bring in a bigger fish. But often times its just a matter of finding the right color and presentation to catch the larger fish..

Just my opinon folks!

Dude!

[Guest]

Do crappies like worms in the winter? Just thought I'd ask because I found a few dozen crawlers in my fridge left over from the summer! They were hiding from me in the back of the fridge, and still alive. Just don't tell my wife

[Guest]

Crawlers typically won't last long in the cold water. I would stick with maggots and minnows.

Good Fishin, Matt.

[Guest]

...And hey watch out for those "guardian" fish!!!

------------------
... Just stirrin the pot...

[Guest]

BLACKJACK,

I have run into a lot of spots where I'll be jigging for crappies near the bottom and I'll catch a walleye. Crappies and walleyes will sometimes relate to the same structure. This typically happens when crappies hug the bottom and your jigging close to the bottom and those bottom hugging walleyes take the bait.

As far as the column effect is concerned, I would say in depths of 15 feet and deeper. I have seen crappies suspend pretty high in 10 feet of water (8 feet off bottom to right below the ice) but as far as suspended schools I would say deeper then 15 feet.

Now referring to the question about those fish on the bottom that show up right away. I would be willing to bet that they are small perch. Perch are a day fish and that would explain why they dissapear as night approaches. Find a very small horizontal jig and pack it with maggots and let it sit on the bottom, those perch will bite. If they don't, bounce it off the bottom a few times and that normally gets them to strike. I would focus on the later bite for crappies though.

Glow jigs! Yeah, I know what you mean. Often times a plain hook will out produce jigs or teardrops. A plain hook and minnow gives a more natural approach as the minnow falls which will drive negative crappies into striking on those tough fihsing days. When ever I deadstick for crappies all I use is a plain hook, a splitshot about 8 inches up, and a crappie minnow all below a noodle rod.

Good Fishin, Matt.

[Guest]

Gaurdian fish...Someday one will appear on the Vex and you'll say OH YEAH!!!!

It's funny the issue of Walleyes/Crappies and related structures should be brought up.

I had believed mainly in the summertime, when Crappies are suspended off the breaklines and weed edges, that Walleyes were typically right next to, or schooled underneath the suspending Crappies.

This was proved true last summer, with the aid of an underwater camera, as I found Crappies suspended 3-8 feet off the bottom, with a thick blanket of Walleyes right underneath. If the Walleyes weren't right with the Crappies, typically they would be at the same depth, but further up or down the breakline, and typically closer to a rock to mud transition area.

When you are fishing a lake where the Crappies typically "pick up" at twighlight hours, typically a clear water or shallow lake, the fish you see during the day on the bottom are typically as stated Perch, or the occasional Walleye. Suspended varietys of inactive fish are typically baitfish and often times small Sunfish.

When you think about fishing, everyone stresses a "natural" presentation. What is MORE unatural then a green or red teardrop glowing in the dark? These strikes are often caused by curiosity and defense. They have there time and place, but it doesn't always mean you have to use them to get fish when visibility is low. Fish have a natural zone of awareness.

Here's something that works dynamite for Crappies, and has produced numbers of slabs on URL. It's a timing thing, as you must set the hook as soon as the signals come together on the Vex. Take a slip knot and a plain hook, and pull the slip knot tight on the hook in curve of the shank. Don't trim the string away. Drop it down...This is lethal, but experiment with different colors of slip knot strings.

The hook with a sinker crimped to the hook is dynamite as well, but better used when tipped with nothing at all.

Another thing is, when catching Crappies I have something I refer to as the "throw back syndrom" which has been discussed here before. Yes, I am one of them guys that will run to another hole to throw a fish back, if I want that hole to stay hot for a longer period of time. Those that have tried it have admitted to more consistent fishing out of one hole, while those that doubt it remain to bounce from hole to hole every 3 or 4 fish. Fish do have forms of communication and defense.

Another thing to keep in mind...If the fish disapear from your hole chances are they havn't gone far...Mostly just outside of your cone angle. Once you locate the fish, you may need to just drill holes within a 30 foot radius of your honey hole to stay on top of them.

Just a few things that have worked for me above and beyond all others.

PCG

[Deitz Dittrich]

Great thread guys.. some fun reading!

I often think you can find walleyes and crappie at the same time, I think it goes back to they often feed on the same prey.

I have noticed that often you will not find great populations in one lake(of both good size crappie and walleye and numbers in both) because they then destroy the baitfish they use as prey. Unless you are talking about such a large body of water in which its a large enough area to support that kind of baitfish and game fish system.

My example would be URL, URL was a tremendus walleye lake.. .it had crappie in it but not the numbers... there were large crappies in there but seldome caught. Now the lake has a great population of crappies, yet the walleye population is very poor.

Lakes that are great walleye lakes dont seem to produce numbers of large Crappie and lakes that are Great Crappie lakes dont seem to produce large numbers of large walleye.

Just my opinion.

In the almighty words of Mike Meyers... I'm getting a little verclempt.. discuss!

[Guest]

Here's a slight concern I have on over population...

In August on one of my favorite lakes of about 1,000 acres I was able to run with my Vex between the depths of 12 feet and 25 feet of water with a constant solid school of fish suspended solid from 2 feet off the bottom to 10 feet below the surface.

It didn't matter where I went, as long as I was in 10 feet or more of water. Pretty much one big solid school. These fish were all Crappies, eagerly feeding with a casting jig presentation as I drifted from one end of the lake to the other. Size ranges were from 4" in length up to 12" in length, but what has me concerned is the popualtion mass, as most fish caught were 8-9".

I can't fathom to count how many fish would be assessed in a population assesment.

Just before the sun would hit the top of the trees we would sit over 22-25 of water, casting a jig, catching 3/4# Crappies just 1-2 feet under the surface...There was anywhere from 8-12 boats in a radius of about 200 yards, each one catching Crappies over the deep water 1-2 feet down.

That is alot of fudging Crappies. I am worried that stunting may occur with the younger year classes, as too many fish per acre would mean shortage of prey.

If they don't stunt, this will be one hell of a fishery in about 3-4 years as the 8-9" fish will be pound or better.

PCG

[Guest]

PCG,

I'm going to have to try that slip knot trick. I've used the split shot on the hook before and it worked.

I never really though about the throw back syndrom before. I've caught over 50 crappies out of one hole before but there has been many times where I would only catch 3-4 and then I'd have to switch holes. I'll try that next time I go out.

I also agree when you said that when the fish dissapear that they haven't gone far. Numerous times will fishing crappies and the fish move all it takes is a 10 or 15 yard move and your back on fish. Good point.

Exudedude, how have you been? I found that to be true as well about the crappie and walleye populations. LOW is an exception though, there are high nimbers of both large walleyes and crappies. A lot of the lakes in the Metro though only support high numbers of either large crappies or large walleyes. I don't know, maybe we are just looking in the wrong place.

Good Fishin, Matt.

[Guest]

My input on the walleye/crappie size in lakes is that I fish a 400 acre lake in wcmn and it produces both. Usually when fishing for walleyes people troll bigger presentation making crappies not strike.
When fishing with lindy rigs, letting them run they spit the hook (thinking its another finiky walleye.
It is amazing what you can learn trolling an underwater camera.
Under oath I can say there are a few lakes that will produce both in my area.

[juddfish]

This is an excellent thread everything said here will help you catch fish! I was out crappie fishing last night on a lake that I had thought only had stunted crappies in it. There is a few larger fish though I did find out and you would catch them right away after you drilled the hole and they would be about 6' down in 35' of water. Largest 1 measured 13.5" The fish were very finicky so I downsized first and that didnt work so then I went with a larger hook and that payed off. Everyday on the water is different somedays they like big minnows some days they like small minnows some they only take dead minnows! Thats what makes fishing so much fun! The challenge!!! The concern I have is when the DNR lowers the crappie limit from 15 down to 10 how many lakes are going to become overabundant with crappies and therefore become stunted? This new regulation will most definately help out more lakes that it will hurt. Do you think that the DNR should annually net crappies out of these lakes that have stunted crappies and place in other lakes with good habitat and will be able to allow the fish to grow to become trophies?

~juddfish

[Guest]

Juddfish, very interesting insight. I've fished a few lakes in the past where the average crappie was no bigger then 7-8 inches and stayed like that for several years. One year the DNR decided to net some crappies during the spring and transfered them to a small children's pond. The next spring you started to see larger crappies in the original lake.

I would have to agree that to some degree that by netting out some of the smaller crappies as long as populations are stable then the lake won't be affected negatively. Most of these lakes where stunted crappies are present reproduce adequately and have no trouble producing a typical spawn. Only problem is that as these crappies become fingerlings and yearlings they will grow rapidly until stunting occurs. By netting yearlings and transfering them to other bodies of water then you will see larger fish.

It may take a few years before you start to see the effects but eventually you will see an increase in size of the crappies. I know that the DNR has stocked some lakes with adult crappies as well. This method would work too but I think that a healthy natural population of crappies will further benefit the lake.

No you got me curious, I'm going to do some research on this. I'll let you know.

Any other comments?

Good Fishin, Matt.

[Guest]

As I have learned, assesments for larger Crappies are difficult to be accurate due to the fact that larger Crappies have a distinct ability to negotiate the nets, therefore causing them to swim around them.

In a small shallow lake that was stocked with Adult Crappies and recieves moderate fishing pressure, it consistently gives up 11"-14" Crappies throughout the year.

The stocking was does in 1990, and last survey reports were in 1989, when the lake held Crappies in the 12-14" range on a majority rate of 12-1 of smaller fish according to the assement report. That's pretty incredible. So why would the DNR feel the need to stock the lake with Adult Crappies with such a population of large adult fish already present? Perhaps the lack of smaller fish, indicating natural reproduction issues?

PCG

[BLACKJACK]

Thanks for the input guys! Will have to try that plain hook/sinker or slip bobber trick.

I've always wondered about the 'throwing the small ones back down the same hole', do fish communicate?? "Danger, danger, theres a guy with a fillet knife up on the ice!" If the bite is hot, it probably doesn't matter, but if its slow....

You guys talk about moving 15-30 yards to find the fish again. Are you moving your fishhouse constantly or just taking your pole and your vex? I've done that for walleyes at sunset, but there comes a time when it gets dark and you want to settle into your fishhouse - I'm confused about when you're doing that moving around?

Another elementary question (I'm from the school that says the only dumb question is the one you don't ask). Do you guys always 'set the hook' with a sharp jerk or do you just start cranking? I lost a couple of nice crappies last night right at the hole, and I realized that I really haven't been setting the hook, I just start cranking. I'm concerned that on a light bite, when your bobber barely moves, that you'll jerk it out of their mouth.

On the limit going from 15 to 10, I don't think its the limit causing overharvest, its the sheer number of people that show up when theres a hot bite. Most of the time people aren't taking home limits of crappies. What ****** me off about the lowering of the crappie limit is that they left the walleye limit at 6. The saying is that you don't need 15 crappies for a meal, but you don't need 6 walleyes either!

[Guest]

PCG,

Thats a good question. I'm going to try and contact a local DNR and get some info. Once I find out I'll let you know. I would think that in these lakes where a high population of large crappies are swimming that by stocking it with adult crappies it will keep the small stunted crappies out. I'm just throwing out an assumption. Young adult crappies can produce the most eggs too so maybe they took that into consideration. I try and find out and I'll let you know.

BLACKJACK,

I'll typically use my Fish Trap II for a warming house unless the temps are really cold. I'll punch a lot of holes and hop from hole to hole with just my rod and the vexilar. Its pretty easy to move the portable too so sometimes I'll just pull it behind me when I move. If its warm out then I'm never in my trap.

When I set the hook I don't jurk it I just use a steady pull of the wrist. Sometimes a quick wrist flick can be used when crappies are biting aggressively but I typically stick with a 2 foot steady raise of the rod, not too fast but not too slow.

Good Fishin, Matt.

[Guest]

I love it.

When I move, I take the Vex and a pole. If that much moving is taking place it typically indicates the pattern of the bite, and chances are I will only be at one hole for only 2 to 4 fish before I move again.

Another thing is, when you punch a hole through the ice on a snowcovered lake, all the sudden you have a tunnel a light going down into the lake.

What effect this has is a debatable issue. If you run into Dave Gentz on the ice you will notice his hole is FULL of slush. He has one little spot open big enough to let his jig down. Trying to prevent light penetration.

I have found many times on daytime Crappie lakes that if it is sunny and I pull the shleter overhead...the fish disapear. The light penetration kept them hanging around. Members of my crew on cold days have taken their houses, set them up NEXT to the hole with their backs to the wind, and fished out the door of the house. Looks pretty rediculous, but it was how we maintained an active bite with the fish on a cold day without having to jump around too much.

This is a trial and error deal, as on some lakes the light spooks fish, while on others, like the stained water lakes I typically fish, attracts them.

Fish communicate somehow, whether it be by emmiting urine when in distress, or some other form.

In the summer I have sat on a school of fish, caught 2 or 3 and released them, and had the bite go dead. Come back an hour later, catch 2 or 3 more right away, release...and dead. The next day, I returned, caught 15 and put them in the live box, through back 2 and then it was dead. This is a spot that I fish regularly and have found that as soon as I release or lose 2 or 3 fish the spot goes dead instantly. If you keep a half dozen and don't lose any, you'll catch 8. Meaning you threw two back.

I have been fishing Crappies too long...

PCG

[Guest]

Great thread guys!! Sitting here in school (prep hour) I love reading these kinds of threads. Especially about Crappies.

I've had my best luck on a tear drop jig (black/red) do seem to work the best for me. The thing is; what I consider a tear drop, a lot of people say the jig I use should be too big. Not your "typical" small tear drop. I don't know, it all works though.

The only time I've caught Walleyes with Crappies IS on URL. Last winter; I pulled up more Walleyes then Crappies. Wish I could of kept them....oh well.

I'll be heading into the BWCA tomorrow around the Ely area. Going to go after the mighty Crappie. We'll see what happens.

[email protected]

[Guest]

BWCAguide,

You are gonna have to let us know how many crappies you catch.

I've used large demons in the past for crappies. How big are we talking about? PCG brought up an interesting point about going larger when crappies won't bite.

Good Fishin, Matt.