Crab Grass (serious topic this time)

[LwnmwnMan2]

It's that time of year again, the phone started to ring off the hook today.

I should just change the voice mail to "yes, we will be starting light cleanups with backpack blowers next week, raking and mowers the last week of April, irrigation start ups mid May" and I wouldn't have to answer the phone, nor have any messages.

Anyways, everyone is chomping at the bit to get out and do some raking, cleaning, etc.

If you ARE going to do some raking, stick your finger in the ground first. If your yard is cool and wet, let it sit for a couple - 4 days more. If it's fairly dry, then go ahead and do some light raking, branch pickup, etc.

Fertilizing or crab grass preventer can be put off for quite some time yet.

If you'd like to know the "proper" time to put down your CG preventer, head to a kitchen department at your local store, or meat department at your local grocery provider and grab a meat thermometer.

You can use this to check the temperature of your soil. Crabgrass won't start to germinate until the ground temps reach 55 degrees at sunrise (soil will cool back down at night) for 3 days in a row.

Weed killer can wait even longer, the weeds need to actively growing for anything to have any effect.

I realize there's a large national fertilizing company advertising on many radio stations now that "now's the time to apply", but we're far from the truth, unless you're far far south, or those that are out of this state.

If you're in the north country, it's an even longer wait.

I'm not on this site to gain work. I'm only here to give everyone an insider's tips on turf maintenance.

[icefisherman]

lwnnmwnman2 I like reading your posts and have switched to lesco because of you. Can you give a rough guide of what kind of fertailizer ( like 10-0-20 or whatever) and when to put down each application. I have sod thats about 8 yrs old and I was getting weeds last yr. Also what about airerating, overseeding and dethatching. When do you want to do those?

Thanx!!!!!!!!!

[LwnmwnMan2]

Generally speaking, aerating, dethatching, overseeding should all be done late summer, around the first of September, but usually by that time everyone is so tired of mowing every week, the last thing they want to do is put more time / money / effort into the lawn.

It can all be done in the spring as well, but the most important thing to remember is that if you're going to overseed, you're not going to want to put any crabgrass preventer down.

The CG preventer is going to hinder the germination of the "good" grass seed.

Also, you can take a core soil sample, basically pulling a plug out of your yard, and your thatch is 1/2" thick or less, you don't have an issue with thatch.

Aeration is promoted, BUT, and yes I mean a BIG BUT, that IMO, on 70% of the properties, it's not needed.

If you have a heavy clay soil and you're trying to work amendments into the soil to help with drainage, root growth, then yes, aerate and top dress with a mix of sand / loose soils and overtime your clay will turn into a decent soil to grow a lush yard.

If you have a backyard that's a playground for the neighborhood kids, especially in the spring when the ground has a tendency to be compacted from running on the soft soil, then yes.

If your yard is the type where the most action it gets is the weekly mow, you probably don't have to worry about aerating.

Again, the thoughts on aerating are my own opinion. In 20 years I've aerated 5 yards. I know there are others on here in the business that swear all yards have to be aerated at least every other year, if not every year.

[LwnmwnMan2]

As far as fertilizers, I use a 30-0-10 with 50% slow release.

In the spring, I use a 19-0-6 with Dimension.

I only apply 4 times, more often than not 3 times.

With the slow release fertilizer, the fertilizer will feed for 6-8 weeks. That would be 24-32 weeks at 4 applications.

There are alot of years we'd be hard pressed to have 32 growing weeks for grass, let alone 24.

If you really looked at it, and went from May 15 - October 15, that would be roughly 24 weeks. At 8 week intervals, that would be 3 applications.

I like to do one around the 15th of May (weather dependant, earlier if a warm spring, not much later on a cool spring). Then one around the end of June. I lay low over the heat of the summer, and then again around the end of August, and then the middle - end of September.

Just like with the above post about overseeding, aerating and dethatching at the end of the summer, the last two fertilizer applications are more important than the spring time applications.

[wormdunker]

It can all be done in the spring as well, but the most important thing to remember is that if you're going to overseed, you're not going to want to put any crabgrass preventer down.

The CG preventer is going to hinder the germination of the "good" grass seed.

Every year I struggle with this. I know what you say to be true but what do you suggest people with crabgrass do? I usually decide to over seed hoping that the thicker lawn will win out over the crabgrass. I learned that as long as my lawn stays watered and healthy the crabgrass stays in check. thoughts?

[LwnmwnMan2]

If you've never had a crabgrass problem, you're going to be okay overseeding in the spring, skipping a year of Pre-em.

Crabgrass doesn't automatically appear just because you didn't put down a pre emergent. The seeds have to be in place to germinate.

And remember, crabgrass looks like an upside down crab, large straws of grass shaped like crab legs.

If you have clumps of grass with fuzzy Q-tips, that's Quackgrass, a whole different beast.

[pureinsanity]

You should just tell us when to put down Crab Grass Preventer. I don't wanna feel the soil temp

[fishnowworknever]

I'm itchin' to rake today after work. I saw a lawn service yesterday had gone around the area doing clean ups.

So if my soil is fairly dry, I am ok to do a light raking?

[LwnmwnMan2]

Go ahead and work the upper body if your lawn won't be tore up.

You'll see grass pulled out if your lawn is wet or you're raking too hard.

I've seen companies out too. Someone has to be the first one

I've seen large fertiling companies that have the color of money in their name running around as well.

I'm sure they're just doing soil samples.

[pureinsanity]

Or sales. I almost applied for a job there once. Not a type of sales to get into. lol

[brian6715]

Whoops, I raked the krap out of my lawn last weekend.

Oh well, the joy of renting

[J2M]

Can you reuse leftover fertilizer and crab grass preventer from a season or two ago that has been stored in a detached garage?

[LwnmwnMan2]

Can you reuse leftover fertilizer and crab grass preventer from a season or two ago that has been stored in a detached garage?

Yes, we always have carry over from the previous season.

As long as it hasn't gotten wet and started to break down, you're good to go.

BTW, driving around this afternoon I've seen ALOT of people raking their yards and it was quite dusty.

Seen a couple of people even using garden tractors with baggers getting stuff up.

I'm quite surprised how dry it is already if the sun beats down on the yard.

Like I said earlier, if your yard is dry enough, and you want to get a jump, you can start. It doesn't mean your grass is going to get greener faster, but at least the spring rake will be out of the way.

[icefisherman]

If I want really thick green grass can you fertalize every 30 days?

[LwnmwnMan2]

If I want really thick green grass can you fertalize every 30 days?

That's basically what you'd have to do if you were trying to get 6-7 applications in, in our area.

You'd either better not put down full rate, put down a very low or even zero Nitrogen, and / or water like mad.

On top of that, you'd better have a new mower, a back up mower, and a service lined up just in case you don't get your 8 am, noon, 4 pm and 8 pm mowings in.

[RumRiverRat]

On top of that, you'd better have a new mower, a back up mower, and a service lined up just in case you don't get your 8 am, noon, 4 pm and 8 pm mowings in.

I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read that.

[CJH]

As most people are, I am pretty busy, so I have a hard time timing the crab grass preventer/fertilizer application. So I was thinking about putting the first app down a little early around Easter, then doing a follow up app down 6 weeks later in early June. I don't have very many weeds (three year old lawn that was sodded) and usually just spot spray, so I don't put down a "weed n feed" application.

Dumb idea? Thoughts?

Thanks for all of the tips/advice, LwnmwnMan!!!

[pureinsanity]

As most people are, I am pretty busy, so I have a hard time timing the crab grass preventer/fertilizer application. So I was thinking about putting the first app down a little early around Easter, then doing a follow up app down 6 weeks later in early June. I don't have very many weeds (three year old lawn that was sodded) and usually just spot spray, so I don't put down a "weed n feed" application.

Dumb idea? Thoughts?

Thanks for all of the tips/advice, LwnmwnMan!!!

Don't have that many weeds? just wait to for forget to put down 2-4-d

[CJH]

Don't have that many weeds? just wait to for forget to put down 2-4-d

Haven't had to yet!!

[LwnmwnMan2]

As most people are, I am pretty busy, so I have a hard time timing the crab grass preventer/fertilizer application. So I was thinking about putting the first app down a little early around Easter, then doing a follow up app down 6 weeks later in early June. I don't have very many weeds (three year old lawn that was sodded) and usually just spot spray, so I don't put down a "weed n feed" application.

Dumb idea? Thoughts?

Thanks for all of the tips/advice, LwnmwnMan!!!

This is essentially what the larger companies are going to be doing shortly, hence the 5-6 applications / year they sell.

The biggest issue that you're going to have, is there's a good chance you're just going to waste fertilizer.

If you have a blacktop drive, or live on a blacktopped street, the areas adjacent to these are going to be warmer than the middle of your yard.

However, these are the same areas that are constantly being stressed, whether sand / salt plowed onto your boulevard by the city / county / state, or even your own driveway from salt that is drug onto the property by vehicles in the winter time.

I would say if you're going to do that, you could probably just make a perimeter pass so the preventer is laid down where the grass will warm up first.

My irrigation guy and I were checking soil temps today in the Chisago area, 41.2 degrees. A far, far cry from the 55 that CG needs to germinate.

With the forecast only having 1 60+ day this week and lows in the low 30's and highs in the 40's at the end of the week, there really isn't any huge rush to do a full app.

Lastly, if you stay ontop of your weeds, you shouldn't have to do more than just spot spray. We have many yards that have herbicide applications built into the pricing, but we rarely have any weeds to spray. Basically an insurance policy against the weeds.