Grass Killer Recommendation (Food Plot)

[Scott M]

I'm looking for a grass killer for use in a food plot in northern Minnesota. The nontarget is clover. HSO's Perchjerker recommended Post to me. The issue seems to be a matter of scale. Post is available for agricultural use, I stopped on the way home from work today and the hardware store had something but in a small spray bottle. I need something to treat probably 1 acre (plus or minus a 0.25 acres). There are some bracken ferns that come up, but they are perennials and there is probably a huge spore bank in the existing soil...I don't mind weeding them out when I'm up there. The plant I want to knock out are grasses. There are a few successional grasses creeping in that will shade out some of the clover and I want to nip those without having to rip up my whole food plot.

Any suggestions?

[Dotch]

Scott,

Fire me an e-mail and sometime when you'll be down in the St. Olaf Lake vicintity give me a shout. I keep a supply of generic Select (clethodim) on hand. It's superior to Poast particularly when it comes to perennial grass control. I use it to knock stuff out of the flower beds & keep foxtail barley, brome, quack, etc., from creeping in around the edges. I probably have enough to last until I'm 4 or 5 hundred years old the rate I use it. Be glad to share some with you or help you obtain your own stash.

[LwnmwnMan2]

Scott,

Fire me an e-mail and sometime when you'll be down in the St. Olaf Lake vicintity give me a shout. I keep a supply of generic Select (clethodim) on hand. It's superior to Poast particularly when it comes to perennial grass control. I use it to knock stuff out of the flower beds & keep foxtail barley, brome, quack, etc., from creeping in around the edges. I probably have enough to last until I'm 4 or 5 hundred years old the rate I use it. Be glad to share some with you or help you obtain your own stash.

Dotch -

From what I can tell, you use this product in the flower beds, to control grasses?? Is it a product that's liquid, or granular, and can you spread it over the top of existing plants?

I used to have a product called Fusilade II, which was a liquid that you could spray over the top of plants and it would eradicate grasses in planting areas, but my supplier has changed companies and no longer carries it.

I've tried the stuff at big box places, but it just doesn't want to work to my satisfaction.

[Dotch]

LwnmwnMan2,

It's a liquid and yes, as long as you're not spraying it on ornamental grasses it's very safe sprayed postemergence on all kinds of stuff you wouldn't think it would be, including things such as daylillies, iris, tulips, crocus & daffodils. It's very grass specific as your Fusilade II and Poast are and there is no soil residual activity. It works best when a nonionic surfactant or an oil are added. Oil is more effective than NIS, particularly on the harder to kill species such as brome. Rather than buy a 5 gallon container of crop oil concentrate though I sub vegetable cooking oil in the handsprayer for the small dab I'm using. Shake the snot out of it and it works just like it does in the field. I especially like it if foxtail gets away during a rainy spell in the vegetable garden and a rescue treatment is warranted.

Check with one of your local ag fert/chem suppliers. It's not restricted use so you should have no problem buying it. I think the brand of generic clethodim I have is called Arrow. It's supplied in 1 gal containers and likely will run $130 - $140/gal if memory serves me correctly. It's typically mixed with glyphosate and used to control volunteer Round Up Ready corn in Round Up Ready soybeans.

[Scott M]

$130/140 a gallon...is that in concentrate, or ready to apply?

[Dotch]

Concentrate. Depending on what you're trying to kill, for perennial grasses it will take 8 - 16 oz./acre of product and likely will take a repeat application.

[LwnmwnMan2]

Dotch -

I was reading the label for "Arrow" and it listed not to use on corn, as damage may occur.

Have you used this product on corn?

I'd like to help my 70 year old parents out as well with their garden but don't want to do more damage than good.

Also, if you use this chemical in a spot sprayer (hand held) it says to mix at a rate up to 2/3 oz / gallon, for those following along and not looking up the label yourself.

[Dotch]

No, we use it to control/kill volunteer corn in Round Up Ready soybeans. Doesn't take much either.

[Scott M]

At last check a couple weeks back, the bracken ferns are coming in really bad. This is probably a question for a botanist, but what could I use on the ferns? Spot treat roundup? That may be a little impractical, but so is hand pulling I suppose. I've got underground rhizomes that go for days. I guess Bayer makes a target herbicide called Asulam, but I'm not sure where that's available or how hard it is to get.

[Scott M]

I treated with a generic of Poast over the weekend. I'm hoping it kills ferns, but I'm guessing it won't. I wish I would have treated in the 90 degree heat; then the plants would have really sucked it up.

[Powerstroke]

Scott, not sure if you meant that tongue in cheek, but spraying in high heat is a big no-no. The problem is at that temp, the product can evaporate and drift before its sucked up. he threat of hitting non-targets with your herbicide may not be a big concern in the foodplot and woods, but you won't get the control you want on your plot either.

A good rule is keep it below 85 degrees at the most, 80 to be safe.

[Dotch]

OK, I agree in general that the 85 degree rule of thumb is a good one to try to adhere to. However, as Scott is well aware having grown up on a farm, sometimes the opportunity to control a pest presents itself within only a small window of time. Sethoxydim has no track record of volatilizing off soil or plant surfaces in high heat. It can hang in an inversion however if the %-age of fines are too high from using a small nozzle and high pressure or the proper additives are not being used. This can result in off target movement. Under field conditions when we have temps that are 90 degrees, soil moisture is abundant, and the humidity is high, generally speaking weed control works rather well. What we tend to have trouble with more than anything with glyphosate in particular is dust interference from the wheel tracks. High temps and dry soils are usually a factor also. It helps to know your product and conditions extemely well.

Bracken fern is a tuffy. It's an extremely old plant dating back millions of years in the fossil records. It's also an odd plant. It reproduces by spores not seeds, not unlike the equisetum (horsetail or scouring rush) we deal with in production fields. The problem with weeds like these is they don't follow the rules and the herbicides they respond to are few and far between. Bracken fern can be a problem in pastures so have included a release from Krishona at the U. Ally is rumored to work and there are some of the ALS chemistry products that have activity on equisetums so wouldn't doubt it. Asualm might be your best bet based on some of the agro forestry info I read. How easily you can get ahold of it might be another matter. Your best bet might be to get ahold of one of your forestry buddies or someone who sells Winfield solutions products, namely an ag co-op. As far as sethoxydim controlling ferns, it's probably wishful thinking.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/horse/components/weedid.html

[Scott M]

I do have a pesticide applicator's license, but I wasn't joking about the heat, although I know it can be a problem with other chemicals. Probably not a good idea to use chemicals in the heat in general, good advice powerstroke. I know my old man used a dandelion killer in lower concentration than recommended (he was running short) and it seemed to get picked up a little better in the heat.

Thanks for all the info Dotch. Like you say, finding some fern killer will be the hardest part.

[jeffreyd]

http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=9859

They indicate that the only true method is cultivating ferns for a couple years. I have a professor at Oregon State that is up on all of this stuff, i can contact him and find out if there is a chemical that he recommends if you like? Jeff

[jeffreyd]

here is the reply for taking care of the ferns. Tried to copy the label but it is in a locked pdf. if you do a search for the Asulam herbicide online you can locate it. good luck

Jeff, The standard for brakenfern control is to treat with asulam when the fronds are fully developed. It works pretty well. I have attached a sample label for Asulox. Spot treatments of gylphosate (RoundUp type products) will also work, but of course this is not a selective treatment. The auxin herbicides like dicamba, 2,4-D, etc. are generally ineffective. I would not recommend mowing or tilling for fern control because you will end up just spreading plant parts around and possibly making the situation worse over time. Better to treat known areas over time to limit spread.

Let me know if there are questions.

Andy

Andy Hulting, Ph.D.

Extension Weed Management Specialist

Dept. of Crop and Soil Science

Oregon State University

[Scott M]

Thanks for looking that up Jeff! I will have to try out the Asulam or Asulux. I have some Roundup but I'm worried that I would hit some nontargets underneath the fern canopy.

[Dotch]

Think I've posted this before somewhere but anytime you're looking for a chemical label, one of the best all inclusive sites is: http://www.cdms.net/

It's free & the site many ag professionals use to stay on top of the mess of current products we have to deal with. To use the site go to the services tab on the taskbar and a pulldown menu will show you "Support" on top and on the bottom, you'll see "Labels/MSDS". If you click on the Labels/MSDS tab, you'll also have access to the supporting companies websites which includes all their labels. Also, if you don't know who manufactures the product, you can type in the product name in the search box where it says brand name. Provided you know how to spell it, you can access it that way.