Registerd or non-registerd

[Boar]

I have a yellow fem. non-registerd, was lucky to get her for free. I have bred her once, six pups and no problem selling them. Shes a very smart dog, had her retreiving her first duck at 7 mnths. Is there that big of a deal between AKC an NON-AKC? She is pregnant again and 4 pups are already spoken for. What would be a non AKC worth to the serious waterfowler, or do you belive ya get what ya pay for. Later

[Redlantern]

I can't tell you what the AKC has done for hunting dogs but I can tell you that they helped destroy any working ability that the Siberian Husky used to have. All they seem to care about is what a dog should look like, not performance. People seem to feel that if the dog is AKC registered, it is a guarantee that it is a good dog.
Just my crabby, humble opinion.

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Erik

[LABS4ME]

How does the AKC ruin a breed? The main purpose of the AKC is to stock pile the records of the dogs that have been registered purebred and recieved titles. They also sanction both shows and test/events/trials (hunt tests and field trials for sporting breeds, herding events for herding breeds etc.) depending on your breed. They DO NOT push dogs to be show dogs vs. working dogs, that's left up to individual breeders and owners.

Unfortunately the "breed du jour" usually ends up destroyed, but the AKC doesn't warrant the rap as the entity that destroyed them. The popularity of an individual breed and indiscriminate breeding are the primary reasons behind the downward spiral of many breeds. People want a certain breed because of the looks of that dog and the profit takers are there to breed the heck out them to insure everyone gets one. These new owners don't care what the dog was/is bred for, they want a "chic" dog. Go down the list... American Cockers, Irish Setters, Siberian Husky, Poodles all for the most part are a shadow of what they once were, and finding a good working one is tough. You even see a lot of sub-par Goldens, Labs, Wiemies, and Springers. Luckily, the hunt test programs (AKC, NAHRA, NAVDA, UKC) were brought into play which allows the common man to run his dog in a sanctioned event, recieving a title and insuring a greater pool of genes to help keep the breed alive. I do believe an AKC rule should be passed to match England's rule that a show title will not be administered until the dog recieves a working certificate or title for what the breed is intended. Though not perfect it does help insure that some of the original instincts of the breed are kept intact and bred down.

Buying an AKC dog only insures you can trace the ancestors of that particular puppy. It doesn't nesscarily mean that your dog is better than a non-registered dog. If you can trace the lineage, it will give you a better snapshot of what your indidvidual pup posesses (ie. titled ancestors, which shows ability, hip/elbow/eye certifications etc).

I thought I would just clear those few matters up. Good luck with your breeding, I've hunted behind a couple of non-registered Labs and they were admirable hunters.

Good Luck! Labs

[Canuck]

I think show Labs get a bad rap. Now I know that will get alot of field trial guys/gals up in arms. But think, a Lab is a certain way for specific reasons. There isn't one thing about a Lab that wasn't breed for the purpose of huntin, from the ear set to the tail set. I get very upset when I see a show judge who has NO clue what a standard for a Lab is and couldn't tell if a dog had east/west feet or not and puts it up as best in breed. I feel as the last post that NO Lab should get any letters as champion etc until he has proven him/herself in both the field and the show ring. The idea of the huntin test I feel was one of the best things to happen to the Lab breed.

NO, I am not into shows nor field trials but I see a place where both must come together if the Lab is to remain true to the breed.

One other thing about a registered dog is if a certain line starts to show a problem in an area it is easier to trace back where it came from and correct the breeding, and vice a versa if a certain line is outstanding great to try and introduce that line to your breeding program.

[Cootz]

But it all goes back to what Labs said. Got to control how breeders breed (blanket statement I know but you get the point). Too many people that don't know what they are doing but decide that their dog is great and try to be a breeder. I love my dog. I'll put his ability (not mine as a trainer) up against any dog. His parents are registered. But I know I have no business breeding him. He was cut the first chance I could get. I have this friend with a lab that has pink pigment, pointed nose and a curled up tail. It was breed that way and is registered. I personnally think the thing is uglier then dirt. I guess I'm partial to the medium blocky looking thick chested longer legged type.

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So many scientists, so few rockets.

[Canuck]

Cootz: I totally agree, just because a dog is "Registered" does not make him/her a good speciemen of the breed. It is nice that you recoginize that your friend had a dog that was not a correct in confirmation, U can't win them all, up hopefully U can educate those that will listen.
I would say I am probably the biggest critic of my own dogs. My last dam in my opinion had a slight east west and one of the two vets that did her check ups finally found a very small trace of a possible catarac. Several people wanted me to breed her and offered to take a pup but I felt she 'might' throw pups with poor eyes so I had her spade and she turned out not to be east west and her eye never got any worse but I was not disappointed in having her spaed as there are lots of very good breeders out there. In her first year of huntin (age 14 months) in four days she retreived 74 pheasants. She out hunted a GSP and Brittney hands down. Last fall she dropped dead at only alittle over 10 years young.

My wife is asking why do we have to have get a Registered pup and spend all that money. She thinks we should just pick up any Lab. Man does she need to be educated. I have searched and tried to pick the best line I could afford. I not only checked the dam and the grandmother and the sire but the sire's grandmother I couldn't put my hands on as she was from England but I saw two samples of the same breeding and was very impressed. I am not planning on breeding but if by chance she turns out to be an excellent hunter and true confirmation then maybe, but I am NOT holding my breath. I just want the best chance of getting a true Lab.

[Redlantern]

Labs4me, that is why I said they helped destroy the breed. I didn't say they did it by themselves. Obviously unscrupulous breeders just looking to make a buck are a major problem, too. Like I said, I can't attest to what they have done to the hunting breeds but I can for sled dogs. They don't have a working standard. According to the AKC, the Sibe is to be of a certain size, build, coat, etc. It does not consider working ability. There are some type of working titles available but it really is a joke. A fat house dog could perform these.
I don't think there is anything wrong with people having a dog that isn't a superstar athlete or hunter, herder, etc., it's just that I believe people should try to breed better dogs rather than just breed dogs to sell. I also think people are misled by a dog having AKC papers. It isn't that hard to fudge papers.

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Erik