Jump to content

  • GUESTS

    If you want access to members only forums on HSO, you will gain access only when you Sign-in or Sign-Up .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member. ?

Color Carrying?

PikeBayCommanche

By PikeBayCommanche
in Hunting Dogs

 Share

Recommended Posts

PikeBayCommanche Experienced

PikeBayCommanche

Posted
Posted

I just bred my 2 labs for the first time and am wondering about the color. If the mother is black will that be dominate over the fathers chocolate and if he has yellow 4 generations back and the mother carries carries the yellow gene.

Will the pups still be entirely black?

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
PikeBayCommanche Experienced

PikeBayCommanche

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I have seen that before.

The question that I can't find the answer is that if

My mother has a black father and yellow mother but the mother had all black pups

and if my father has yellow 4 generations back in his pedigree. Would he still carry that yellow gene or is it gone now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
KoopHawk Apprentice

KoopHawk

Posted
Posted

I looked up the punnett square situation on Labs, which is difficult because there are 3 inherited characteristics rather than just 2.

There are 8 different Black*Chocolate breeding combinations.

There is only a 25% chance in 2 of the 8 that will yield yellow pups.

In 5 of the 8 combinations there is a 50% chance that the puppies will be yellow carriers and 1 of the 8 has a 25% chance.

Basically there is no way to figure it out for sure unless you know exactly what B-C-Y genes (or you are smarter than me and have more time) the parents have and then those numbers are just averages. They yellow genes may be there or may not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LABS4ME Grand Master

LABS4ME

Posted
Posted

PBC,

If I am reading your post correctly, your female is directly from a BxY breeding. If this is the case she will definitley be a yellow carrier (she is B-y).

The male not having yellow in his pedigree for 4 generations puts the unknown variable into the equation. I would not hold out nor advertise pups as a possibility of being yellow. If you get a few bonus. It's not unheard of nor impossible for it to be passed down through the pedigree for 4 generations, just don't hedge a bet on it.

If he is all Black factored, the pups will all be black with approx. 50% being just black factored, and 50 % being B-y factored.

Good Luck!

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites
PikeBayCommanche Experienced

PikeBayCommanche

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yeah that is what I was figured

My chocolate is an Elwood Blues line and has a yellow 4 generations back on the mothers side.

So yeah that is what i was thinking is that there will be a small chance of a yellow if any.

Anyways I am super excited to see what kinds of pups that they can produce being that they both have fabulous bloodlines and are a British/American line cross. I will hopefully be getting my male his SH this summer.

Thanks for the input.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LABS4ME Grand Master

LABS4ME

Posted
Posted

Not nessacarily but there is a higher probability. I never breed for yellow through a Chocolate for this reason. The parents can pass on the dominant black gene if one of the parents is black. Chocolate to yellow will produce Duddley and is not done by most breeders.

Good Luck!

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites
verg Community Regular

verg

Posted
Posted

yep...can have a light colored nose and yellow eyes as well on a yellow labrador. I guess I don't mind it too bad but definitely not quite as attractive as the dark pigments/eyes etc. That is just my opinion though. And as Labs4 mentioned-most breeders avoid this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LABS4ME Grand Master

LABS4ME

Posted
Posted

I have noticed on several breeder's websites and on stud contracts the stipulation that they will not do any choc. to yellow breedings. It totally removes all dominant gene form the dog... you are breeding a mutated gene (choc) to a resessive gene (yellow).

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites
PikeBayCommanche Experienced

PikeBayCommanche

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I have heard before that the Yellow is actually the mutation???

The E gene locus in Labs determines whether the dog will be black/brown (eumelanin) or red/yellow (phaeomelanin). This locus encodes the melanocyte stimulating hormone receptor (a.k.a. the melanocortin 1 receptor; Mc1r). Labs that are homozygous for the dominant E allele have a constitutively active, mutant form of Mc1r; that is, the receptor is always "turned-on", even in the absence of melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH). As such, eumelanin is constantly produced and the dog appears black or chocolate. Labs that are homozygous for the recessive "e" allele also have a mutant form of Mc1r. This mutant, however, is a "loss of function" receptor that cannot produce eumelanin, even in the presence of MSH. Therefore, Labs that are homozygous for the "e" allele can only produce phaeomelanin and, therefore, will appear yellow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LABS4ME Grand Master

LABS4ME

Posted
Posted

Yellow is the recessive gene. All yellow to yellow breedings produce 100% yellow offspring.

Chocolate is a mutated form of black.

I guess the dominant balck pigment may be passed in a choc - yellow breeding, but it is commonly accepted that duddleyism is the proto-typical outcome and the reason most breeders will not breed chocs and yellows together. I will admit that I do not know the scientific formulas, only what is commonly adhered to and accepted.

Good Luck!

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites
verg Community Regular

verg

Posted
Posted

I have heard before that the Yellow is actually the mutation???

The E gene locus in Labs determines whether the dog will be black/brown (eumelanin) or red/yellow (phaeomelanin). This locus encodes the melanocyte stimulating hormone receptor (a.k.a. the melanocortin 1 receptor; Mc1r). Labs that are homozygous for the dominant E allele have a constitutively active, mutant form of Mc1r; that is, the receptor is always "turned-on", even in the absence of melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH). As such, eumelanin is constantly produced and the dog appears black or chocolate. Labs that are homozygous for the recessive "e" allele also have a mutant form of Mc1r. This mutant, however, is a "loss of function" receptor that cannot produce eumelanin, even in the presence of MSH. Therefore, Labs that are homozygous for the "e" allele can only produce phaeomelanin and, therefore, will appear yellow.

You can say that again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now ↓↓↓ or ask your question and then register. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • smurfy
      Just Food and Drink

      By smurfy · Posted

      By The way that didn't work either!! Screw it I'll just use the cellular. 
    • Wanderer
      Just Food and Drink

      By Wanderer · Posted

      It’s done automatically.  You might need an actual person to clear that log in stuff up.   Trash your laptop history if you haven’t tried that already.
    • smurfy
      Just Food and Drink

      By smurfy · Posted

      😂 yea pretty amazing how b o o b i e s gets flagged, but they can't respond or tell me why I  can't get logged in here on my laptop but I can on my cellular  😪
    • Mike89
      Just Food and Drink

      By Mike89 · Posted

      I grilled some brats yesterday, maybe next weekend will the next round...  
    • Wanderer
      Just Food and Drink

      By Wanderer · Posted

      You got word censored cuz you said        B o o b ies….. haha.   Yeah, no… grilling is on hiatus for a bit.
    • smurfy
      Just Food and Drink

      By smurfy · Posted

      Chicken mine,  melded in Mccormick poultry seasoning for 24 hours.  Grill will get a break till the frigid temps go away!
    • Mike89
      Problems with Yetti

      By Mike89 · Posted

      good luck!!!   
    • rundrave
      Problems with Yetti

      By rundrave · Posted

      we had some nice weather yesterday and this conundrum was driving me crazy  so I drove up to the house to take another look. I got a bunch of goodies via ups yesterday (cables,  winch ratchet parts, handles, leaf springs etc).   I wanted to make sure the new leaf springs I got fit. I got everything laid out and ready to go. Will be busy this weekend with kids stuff and too cold to fish anyway, but I will try to get back up there again next weekend and get it done. I don't think it will be bad once I get it lifted up.    For anyone in the google verse, the leaf springs are 4 leafs and measure 25 1/4" eye  to eye per Yetti. I didnt want to pay their markup so just got something else comparable rated for the same weight.   I am a first time wheel house owner, this is all new to me. My house didn't come with any handles for the rear cables? I was told this week by someone in the industry that cordless drills do not have enough brake to lower it slow enough and it can damage the cables and the ratchets in the winches.  I put on a handle last night and it is 100% better than using a drill, unfortatenly I found out the hard way lol and will only use the ICNutz to raise the house now.
    • Wanderer
      Problems with Yetti

      By Wanderer · Posted

      I haven’t done any leaf springs for a long time and I can’t completely see the connections in your pics BUT I I’d be rounding up: PB Blaster, torch, 3 lb hammer, chisel, cut off tool, breaker bar, Jack stands or blocks.   This kind of stuff usually isn’t the easiest.   I would think you would be able to get at what you need by keeping the house up with Jack stands and getting the pressure off that suspension, then attack the hardware.  But again, I don’t feel like I can see everything going on there.
    • rundrave
      Problems with Yetti

      By rundrave · Posted

      reviving an old thread due to running into the same issue with the same year of house. not expecting anything from yetti and I already have replacement parts ordered and on the way.   I am looking for some input or feedback on how to replace the leaf springs themselves.    If I jack the house up and remove the tire, is it possible to pivot the axel assembly low enough to get to the other end of the leaf spring and remove that one bolt?   Or do I have to remove the entire pivot arm to get to it? Then I also have to factor in brake wire as well then. What a mess   My house is currently an hour away from my home at a relatives, going to go back up and look it over again and try to figure out a game plan.           Above pic is with house lowered on ice, the other end of that leaf is what I need to get to.   above pic is side that middle bolt broke and bottom 2 leafs fell out here is other side that didnt break but you can see bottom half of leaf already did but atleast bolt is still in there here is hub assembly in my garage with house lowered and tires off when I put new tires on it a couple months ago. hopefully I can raise house high enough that it can drop down far enough and not snap brake cable there so I can get to that other end of the leaf spring.

  • Topics

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

  I accept