Color Carrying?

[PikeBayCommanche]

I just bred my 2 labs for the first time and am wondering about the color. If the mother is black will that be dominate over the fathers chocolate and if he has yellow 4 generations back and the mother carries carries the yellow gene.

Will the pups still be entirely black?

Thanks.

[lenny7]

You could get all three colors. Google "Coat Color Inheritance in Labrador Retrievers" and you'll get the breakdown.

[PikeBayCommanche]

I have seen that before.

The question that I can't find the answer is that if

My mother has a black father and yellow mother but the mother had all black pups

and if my father has yellow 4 generations back in his pedigree. Would he still carry that yellow gene or is it gone now.

[KoopHawk]

I looked up the punnett square situation on Labs, which is difficult because there are 3 inherited characteristics rather than just 2.

There are 8 different Black*Chocolate breeding combinations.

There is only a 25% chance in 2 of the 8 that will yield yellow pups.

In 5 of the 8 combinations there is a 50% chance that the puppies will be yellow carriers and 1 of the 8 has a 25% chance.

Basically there is no way to figure it out for sure unless you know exactly what B-C-Y genes (or you are smarter than me and have more time) the parents have and then those numbers are just averages. They yellow genes may be there or may not.

[LABS4ME]

PBC,

If I am reading your post correctly, your female is directly from a BxY breeding. If this is the case she will definitley be a yellow carrier (she is B-y).

The male not having yellow in his pedigree for 4 generations puts the unknown variable into the equation. I would not hold out nor advertise pups as a possibility of being yellow. If you get a few bonus. It's not unheard of nor impossible for it to be passed down through the pedigree for 4 generations, just don't hedge a bet on it.

If he is all Black factored, the pups will all be black with approx. 50% being just black factored, and 50 % being B-y factored.

Good Luck!

Ken

[PikeBayCommanche]

Yeah that is what I was figured

My chocolate is an Elwood Blues line and has a yellow 4 generations back on the mothers side.

So yeah that is what i was thinking is that there will be a small chance of a yellow if any.

Anyways I am super excited to see what kinds of pups that they can produce being that they both have fabulous bloodlines and are a British/American line cross. I will hopefully be getting my male his SH this summer.

Thanks for the input.

[verg]

Labs4,

With a choc father...and possibly yellow pups...wouldn't the pups be duddly??

[LABS4ME]

Not nessacarily but there is a higher probability. I never breed for yellow through a Chocolate for this reason. The parents can pass on the dominant black gene if one of the parents is black. Chocolate to yellow will produce Duddley and is not done by most breeders.

Good Luck!

Ken

[caseymcq]

... Chocolate to yellow will produce Duddley and is not done by most breeders.

Good Luck!

Ken

Is that pink nose and lips on a yellow?

[verg]

yep...can have a light colored nose and yellow eyes as well on a yellow labrador. I guess I don't mind it too bad but definitely not quite as attractive as the dark pigments/eyes etc. That is just my opinion though. And as Labs4 mentioned-most breeders avoid this.

[LABS4ME]

I have noticed on several breeder's websites and on stud contracts the stipulation that they will not do any choc. to yellow breedings. It totally removes all dominant gene form the dog... you are breeding a mutated gene (choc) to a resessive gene (yellow).

Ken

[PikeBayCommanche]

I have heard before that the Yellow is actually the mutation???

The E gene locus in Labs determines whether the dog will be black/brown (eumelanin) or red/yellow (phaeomelanin). This locus encodes the melanocyte stimulating hormone receptor (a.k.a. the melanocortin 1 receptor; Mc1r). Labs that are homozygous for the dominant E allele have a constitutively active, mutant form of Mc1r; that is, the receptor is always "turned-on", even in the absence of melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH). As such, eumelanin is constantly produced and the dog appears black or chocolate. Labs that are homozygous for the recessive "e" allele also have a mutant form of Mc1r. This mutant, however, is a "loss of function" receptor that cannot produce eumelanin, even in the presence of MSH. Therefore, Labs that are homozygous for the "e" allele can only produce phaeomelanin and, therefore, will appear yellow.

[LABS4ME]

Yellow is the recessive gene. All yellow to yellow breedings produce 100% yellow offspring.

Chocolate is a mutated form of black.

I guess the dominant balck pigment may be passed in a choc - yellow breeding, but it is commonly accepted that duddleyism is the proto-typical outcome and the reason most breeders will not breed chocs and yellows together. I will admit that I do not know the scientific formulas, only what is commonly adhered to and accepted.

Good Luck!

Ken

[PikeBayCommanche]

Yeah thanks Ken.

I am pretty sure I will have a nice litter of Blacks.

[verg]

I have heard before that the Yellow is actually the mutation???

The E gene locus in Labs determines whether the dog will be black/brown (eumelanin) or red/yellow (phaeomelanin). This locus encodes the melanocyte stimulating hormone receptor (a.k.a. the melanocortin 1 receptor; Mc1r). Labs that are homozygous for the dominant E allele have a constitutively active, mutant form of Mc1r; that is, the receptor is always "turned-on", even in the absence of melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH). As such, eumelanin is constantly produced and the dog appears black or chocolate. Labs that are homozygous for the recessive "e" allele also have a mutant form of Mc1r. This mutant, however, is a "loss of function" receptor that cannot produce eumelanin, even in the presence of MSH. Therefore, Labs that are homozygous for the "e" allele can only produce phaeomelanin and, therefore, will appear yellow.

You can say that again!

[PikeBayCommanche]

Hahahaaa. Yep.

Anyone have any early tips to see if she is actually pregnant or do I have to wait till about 30 days then have an ultrasound?