Admiral Road Feeder

[Steve Foss]

No need for anyone to get their joints seriously dislocated over the behavior of other human beings. Ethics are an individual matter. What I might find abhorrent, someone else does as a matter of course in their normal daily life.

Shortly after the station was established, some branches were cut and brush cleared. Then more was cleared and cut. Then even more.

At what point did those measures become "too much?"

That's a rhetorical question. The answer will vary from person to person.

Some further questions that are not rhetorical but are meant to provoke thought. Not argument, just some things to think about. Are trees automatically sacred icons? Does cutting branches off trees already so close to the road as to be pounded by snowplows constitute an outrage? When is manipulation of the so-called "natural world" by people too much manipulation? Further, if humans are a part of nature, and humans do what it is their nature to do, are the actions of humans at the Admiral Road feeding station in any way "unnatural?"

Lastly, who should decide what is right or wrong in this case?

[MN Shutterbug]

It's also in some people's nature to steal or cause harm to other humans. Is this unnatural? Unfortunately, for many people it isn't. Is it wrong? Fortunately, most people would agree it is.

[mnfishingal]

I have been watching this thread with interest (as well as taking in some of the gorgeous photos from the bog under the photo section). Having grown up in Mn and having spent much of my adult life there as well, I never knew the bog existed. Over the past few years I have been trying to take in more of the beauty MN has to offer and so have had a visit to the bog to see the owls and other birds, wildlife, and trees on my wish list.

Looks like my wish will come true next week, and I am hoping for a trip mid-week, weather permitting. While I enjoy photography as an amatuer and hope to take some photos, I'm mostly looking forward to a relaxing time taking in the beauty of nature. I am wondering:

- will it be difficult to find my way around if I have never been there (ie are the roads well marked?) I only ask because I got hopelessly lost taking some forest roads off the Gun Flint trail this fall and spent nearly two hours trying to find my way out of the woods and didn't come across one other person or vehicle the entire time I was driving around, and picture the landscape of bog to be simular?

- are there areas that are just as good for viewing winter birds and critters that are not as popular or widely utilized as the feeding areas you talk about?

- are there any other suggestions of places to go or things that are a must see while in the area?

- anyone have an special influence with the weather?

Thanks!

[Steve Foss]

Hey gal,

Glad to see your wish is coming true! Where in N.D. are you? I lived there a long time.

You shouldn't have any trouble finding your way around the bog. Using the map provided here on this board makes it easy, and good spots are marked. Borealhunter also has been keeping a map with locations of the various individual owls and owl species, and he'll probably supply you with a link to that map.

The roads are well marked with green street signs and, where appropriate, county highway signs, and that makes it easy. Best rule is, if the road's not plowed, you probably don't want to be on it. I know they don't always plow Admiral Road, where the feeding station is, right away because most of the road is uninhabited, but they always get to it eventually. Also, there's very little mature forest that I'm aware of in the bog, though plenty of forest is there, and quite a large part of the area is nearly as open as many parts of North Dakota, which is one reason the magpies and rough-legged hawks are there.

If the smaller bird species are what you're after, the Admiral Road and Blue Spruce feeding stations are good to hit, and Borealhunter knows the locations of some other feeding stations at people's homes in the bog that he shares freely.

As for the larger birds such as owls, ravens and eagles, the best bet is just to cruise the known locations, and while you're looking for owls you can run into sharptail grouse, shrikes, magpies and other bog residents, not to mention marten, weasel, fisher, fox, wolf and coyote. One of the folks here even saw a bobcat a couple weeks back out there. Northern hawk owls can be seen all day long, while great gray owls are generally best found shortly after sunrise and shortly before sundown. While some GGOs are out in the day, particularly those individuals that are stressed and need to spend all their time hunting, cruising the most recently known GGO locations after dawn and before dusk is a good way to go.

Nobody has any influence on the weather! But as they say in Norway: There is no bad weather, only bad clothing.

[mnfishingal]

Wow! Thanks for the quick fast and helpful reply!

I'm living in Fargo now and moved here after spending 13 years living just west of Bismarck by the big Holstein cow on the hill off I 94. Since I traveled for my work (as a hospice social worker) I covered ground from Richardton to Jamestown (W-E) and Garrison - Linton (N-S). I am a MN gal at heart though and since moving to Fargo, I spend the summers in the Detroit Lakes area with frequent visits to Itasca State Park and surrounding area, and love nothing more than a trip to the North Shore or BWCA. I can hardly believe how much I have missed in what Northern MN has to offer and so am trying to make a point of getting out and exploring.

Thanks for the information. I'm excited about my trip to the bog.

Denise

[Steve Foss]

No prob, Denise.

I grew up in Grand Forks and traveled the state widely as a newspaper reporter, and lived in a few small towns in the eastern and central part of the state, too. Good to know the Holstein is still standing.

Lots of wonderful scenery and prairie places to go, and the Badlands are killer, but I've always been a woods boy myself, so northeastern Minnesota was just a natural fit.

The bog is a sleeper of a location. You have to search to find beauty there, because it's not one of those scenic gems at first glance. Once you look beyond that, there's plenty to capture the attention, and the birds and beasts definitely know a good thing when they see it.

[Borealhunter]

Steve:

You are missing the point. The admiral feeder is a MESS! What's so natural about seeing a tree that is shaved 1/4 from the bottom up with one stubby sawed off branch with holes in it? What's so natural about all the branches tossed below the feeder? That is why people on birding listservs do not share roosting owl locations like Boreals or Saw Whets because photographers have cut down branches to get their shot. It has happened and it was reported.

As much as I appreciated Jason for erecting this site for the birds and probably for others to enjoy as well. Where do photographers feel they have the right to sawed off the branches on the tree, drill holes, toss perches on the ground? I doubt Jason wanted this feeder to be manipulated for photography and have the tree be shaved for photography purposes.

Since this is a public feeder on public land I can speak out what I see is ethically wrong. Snow plows are not purposely doing anything wrong other than removing the snow from the road. These photographers intentionally removed branches from a public tree on public land to get photos. They did not care what they done or ow others would feel about it, they just shaved a tree for their own greed!(to get a photo).

The more you make excuses for them the more I see you are the type that condones this sort of action. IF Jason erected this feeder for photography only than why did he not shaved all the branches, drilled the holes and etc..? My guess is that he erected this feeder up to get his photos naturally and use the existing branches to photo birds. I doubt he hung the deer racks and bird feeder out so professional or serious photograhers can come up or down to destroy the tree appearance and make a mess out this feeding station because like I said if he erected this feeding station for photography only he would cleared the area himself.

A month ago the feeding station looked great. The Spruce tree looked natural except the deer racks on it, the feeder hung on one of many branches and that's it. Now it looks like a mess!

Thanks

[Steve Foss]

The more you make excuses for them the more I see you are the type that condones this sort of action.

Mike, I'm not making excuses for anyone's behavior. I would not have denuded those trees for the sake of pictures. But nor do I necessarily judge harshly those who did. Why not? Because it's not my place to judge others. That was the real message I was trying to get across. If you feel it's right to stand in judgment of others, that is your business, and we all certainly are welcome to our opinions.

Now, you've made your points and I'm sure we all understood them, so let's let this drop, please. We've worked hard these last few years to make this a friendly board. Been a long time since I locked a thread on our nice little bird-watching board. Don't want to have to lock this one.

[Borealhunter]

Steve:

I am not going to let this subject just get swept under the carpet. This discussion is not about judging others - not at all. This is simply and truthfully reacting to actions by what some photographers have done to get a photo. I have gotten several private emails from people in this forum who have agreed with my stance with regards to the Admiral feeder. All I want from you and others is to keep your saw and drill at home. Leave the bog as it is!! If you lock this thread then fine because I can always have this discussion live at the feeding station with you and others to make my point. I can also remove the feeder as well since its on public property if I see anymore tree damage at the site.

My last comment on this subject.

[Steve Foss]

Sounds good, Mike. Your opinion is duly noted. And it hasn't been swept under the rug. You've made your points repeatedly, and we all understand them.

And I am going to lock this thread because it's getting too combative.