Big Pappi vs. David Ortiz

[Dahitman44]

Recently, in another thread I said it was one of the biggest mistakes the Twins made was to let go of Big Pappi.

This coment was made by a person on that thread, "big pappi in boston and david ortiz in minnesota are two different creatures.

Ortiz didn't show any signs of what was to come. He was something like a 275 hitter with 58 homers in 4 plus years for us.

He nearly matched his twins totals in 2006 alone..."

While that is true I saw some big potential in him that was getting pulled in tight by the font office and TK.

Any thoughts on this topic?

Thanks

Hitman

[Scott K]

Do you think its possible after the move out east, that roids gave his bat a boost?

[bassNspear]

no, i believe its becuase he has people around him in there line up that they had to pitch to him. And thats going to make him a better player, knowing there going to pitch around the other players, to pitch at him

[Dahitman44]

Spear --

Good point but I think it was TK and the staff that really made him think too much about small ball and not enough about bringing out his power.

I know he was hurt a lot as well.

[tisosy11]

Obviously it helps being surrounded by other players. But man o man would ortiz look nice hitting 4th here.

We couldn't afford him and would have lost him anyway with where his production has gone...

[Willy]

People that say he is a different player IMO, are just using it as an excuse. Ortiz playing here, when healthy, was a massive power threat and had the ability to rake. That was his problem all throughout his time with the Twins though, he couldn't stay healthy.

Also, look at his minor league numbers, 310/.381/.530, with plenty of HRs. The Twins new what they had, the reason that they let him go was that he was due for arbitration and could not say healthy.

The Twins didn't want to waste the 1.2 million or whatever figure it was on an injury prone player, (by the way he was also injured a few times during his time in the minors). Big mistake it turns out.

Having Manny and the rest of Boston's lineup protect does help I am sure, but even if we was to have stayed with the Twins I would think he could still be a .280 hitter or so that would hit around 30 hrs a year and drive in a bunch.

[bassNspear]

 Originally Posted By: Dahitman44

Spear --

Good point but I think it was TK and the staff that really made him think too much about small ball and not enough about bringing out his power.

I know he was hurt a lot as well.

ya i think your right. there is alot of diffenent things that might make it happen. I just think that with him not having anyone around him like he does in boston, makes a whole bit of difference.

[tisosy11]

Yeah i thought he was injury prone...saw him once in the minors over in cheese land...they've had some nice players go through...

[Dahitman44]

Can you guys imagine what he would be like in our lineup now --WOW!

He is the guy we were begging to have the past five years ago -- and we had him.

[Willy]

 Originally Posted By: Dahitman44

Can you guys imagine what he would be like in our lineup now --WOW!

He is the guy we were begging to have the past five years ago -- and we had him.

He would have been great to have on a few of those playoff teams, that's for sure.

But a ton of teams can say that. What about KC, they had Beltran, Damon, Dye, probably some others I am missing.

I'm sure they would love to have them back too. Problem is, unless your team is in New York, Boston, Chicago, or California, you just can't keep guys around. It is B S and teams in those cities are at an unfair advantage from the get go. That is the way it will be until they do a salary cap.

[jigging-matt]

I think it is a combintation of what he has around him in Boston, and the fact that he probably has a been told to swing freely. I think as a Twin, they kept him reigned in a little trying to get a hit. Now that he can be a little more of a free swinger, WOW. Wish he was still here, but there are a lot of guys that you can wish were still Twins.

[tisosy11]

no kidding!

[PierBridge]

Excuse thats ridiculus....they don't give you a crystal ball look at the numbers.....its not rocket science.

One he couldn't stay healthy on the turf nor could he play defense in fair territory.

And the other key points are performance enhancing drugs and Manny plus other good hitters.

Anyone who is saying they knew he would become an MVP type hitter is kidding themselves.

Yeah maybe we should have kept him......shoulda woulda coulda.....sheeesh!......get over it!

[CFRay]

When the Twins cut him he did not catch on with another team right away. He dropped 25 lbs., got in shape and Boston gave him a look in spring training. Good move by Boston.

My favorite team let Ortiz go to give Matthew LeCroy more swings in the DH spot. Ouch!

[zamboni]

For starters he split alot of DH time with Fatty LeCroy. And another thing, in Boston the "porch" and foul pole is 302 feet. The high school diamonds in most towns are further away. Another short right field porch he plays alot of games at is Yankee Stadium, which has a line of 314 feet. RF line at the Metrodome is 327, plus the ball has to clear the curtain, where in Boston that fence down the RF line is waist high. My point is he has hit a ton more HRs out east, but in alot easier parks to hit HRs in. Did we do the right thing letting go of him? No, much rather have seen LeCroy go. But there was absolutely no way we would have known then what we do now given the amount of playing time he got here.

[tisosy11]

true dat!

[bassNspear]

not the same role at all from Twins to Sox.

[Dahitman44]

 Originally Posted By: PierBridge

Yeah maybe we should have kept him......shoulda woulda coulda.....sheeesh!......get over it!

Ver5y good point Pier -- but the point I have made from day one till now is you don't CUT a guy like that. Too much of a good hitter to just let go. Plus he was a a good clubhouse guy, but TK didn't like him and you know what that meant ...

[Dahitman44]

Zamboni --

Yeah, old TK loved Fatty LeCroy and not so much on Ortiz ... Hmmmmmmm ....

[Willy]

Exactly Hitman, you are right on. Shouldn't have given up on a guy with that kind of potential for the chance to save a million bucks.

In his last season as a Twin, Ortiz hit .272/.339/.500, with 20 HRs in 125 games. Don't really need a crystal ball to see that those are decent numbers.

The year before he had 18 HRs in 89 games. His minor league numbers also showed very good power. Now granted, those are not the same kind of numbers he has put up in Boston, but tell me the Twins wouldn't have LOVED to get a .272/.339/.500 line out of their DH during those years they were in the playoffs.

Twins let him go because he couldn't stay healthy, and they didn't want to give a mill in a half or whatever the arbitration numbers were at the time to a guy that wasn't always healthy.

Not because they didn't think he had the potential to be a good power hitter. Twins also knew he couldn't play defense from the get go. Also, who said he has taken performance enhancers?

[Dahitman44]

Willy -- RIGHT ON MY BROTHER!!!

That and TK didn't like him. I liked TK but wow -- that guy did NOT like working with the young guys all that much.

He reminded me of my old HS principal -- sure he was a good guy and wanted the best for me, but I would not have thought that then -- thought he HATED kids.

Actually think he really did -- kinda like TK.