Dog Food

[Down2Earth]

I finally got to reading the fall PF Mag. I see an ad. for Native dog food (I know not to believe everything) and it looks promising. No corn, no wheat, no soy and no by-products or Chemical Preservatives. I'm currently happy with the food I'm feeding now, but I'm always looking when it comes to the hunting partner. Does anyone feed this food? Prices per bag? I checked out the web site but other then saying it's a good food (which they all claim) it doesn't give information on the prices for this specific brand in the kent pet foods arsenal. The other dog foods that they sell online do seem to be pretty well priced. But the Native must have to be bought from a dealer.

[jimlovestrout]

Try Pet chef express... all i can say is wow.

[Down2Earth]

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Try Pet chef express... all i can say is wow.

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I checked out the web site. By WOW did you mean the price? $60 for a 60lb bag of the Lamb and Rice.

[jimlovestrout]

It works great.. its only a $1 a pound and they will bring it to your door.... and Made is the USA... do you recall what happen last year with inported type..

[Down2Earth]

I checked and they don't deliver to my area. I also remember what happened but it has never happened to to dog food I have always fed...at least not from the plant in the USA that supplies our area. Do you know anything about Native perfermance dog food by kent pet food?

[jimlovestrout]

here bud check this out...To grade your dog's food, start with a grade of 100:

1) For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points

2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points

3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points

4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source,subtract 5 points

5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer's rice", "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points

6) If the prote in sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, su btract 3 points

7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points

8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3points

9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 morepoints

10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil,subtract 2 points

11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points

12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points

13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points

14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn't allergic to beef ), subtract 1 point

15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point

Extra Credit:

1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points

2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist, add 5 points

3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points

4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points

5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points

6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points

7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 points

8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points

9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points

10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 po int

11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point

12 ) For every different specific animal protein source (other than the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source, but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1 point

13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point

14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are pesticide-free, add 1 point

94-100+ = A

86-93 = B

78-85 = C

70-77 = D

69 = F

Here are some foods that have already been scored:

Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+

Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F

Canidae / Score 112 A+

Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+

Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F

Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 9 2 B

Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A

Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+

Dick Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+

Foundations / Score 106 A+

Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 A

Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D

Innova Dog / Score 114 A+

Innova Evo / Score 114 A+

Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+

Life's Abundance is 120

Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B

Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B

Nutro Ultra Adult and it scores 98.

Nutros Chicken and Oatmeal 98

PetChef fish & potato 106

Pet Chef maintenance adult 93...contains corn

Pet Chef Lamb & rice 96

Pet Chef Chicken & Rice 101

Pet Chef Sensitive 106

Pet Chef Lean 97

Pet Chef Puppy 95...contains corn.

Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F

ProPlan Natural Turkey & Barley / Score 103 A+

Purina Benful / Score 17 F

Purina Dog / Score 62 F

Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F

Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+

Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+

Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A

Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F

Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F

Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+

Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 (Contact Us Please)

[Down2Earth]

I did a search and that chart was on a few months back and if I remember reading right it was a hoax. Now if anyone has any information on the Native dog food please your information would be helpful.

[kentuck_ike]

I have a friend that raises britts and he switched all his dogs over to it about a year ago and he likes it very much. He buys in bulk and he said it is about $24 for 40 lbs. He feeds level 2 during the off season and level 3 during hunitng season. I feed Nutri source and have been very happy with it but I am thinking about making the switch myself. I talked to the Kent food rep at game fair and he seemed to really know his stuff. Thats about all I can tell you. Hope it helps

Ike.

[Down2Earth]

Thanks for that reply. I wonder how much it is just to buy 40lbs at a time?

[kentuck_ike]

Sorry I forgot to add that the kent foods rep said it should be comparable to Nutri source in price (around $30 a bag) except Kent is 40lbs and Nutri source is only 35.

[troutmaster]

ol'roy is the way to go.

[DRH1175]

I feed Nutri source and Pet Chef Express I switch back and fourth about twice a year just to give the dogs a change of taste. However I may look into the Kent. Where can you buy it?

[fishroger]

Does anybodys dog eat fresh veggies? My dog loves carrots, tomatoes, watermelon, , any fresh veggie. He goes to the garden and picks sweet banana peppers and green tomatoes to munch on. He eats better than I do.

[DogFoodGuy]

If anyone is interested, I would be glad to answer questions regarding Native dog food. I head up the pet division that created the Native brand.

By the way, while some of that chart has validity, some of it is completely irrelevant to dog nutrition. I'm guessing it was created by a specific company that was trying to make their particular brand look better.

[Down2Earth]

I have a 1 1/2 year old German Shorthair. Which Native Brand do you suggest? During the hunting season and the off season? How big are the bags? What is the price?

[kentuck_ike]

How does Native compare to Nutrisource in serving size, cost, & quality? Does Native have any breeder programs, and are they looking for dealers in south eastern mn?

my e-mail is [email protected]

[DogFoodGuy]

For a 1 1/2 year old German Shorthair I would generally recommend Level 2 in the offseason and Level 3 in season. You could even go Level 4 during heavy, heavy hunting time. You should be able to switch between Levels 2, 3 & 4 with no problem as they are all the exact same ingredients (just more protein and fat as you move to the higher Levels).

In comparison to NutriSource (which is a good food by the way) Native is very similar in quality, serving size, etc. The main differences between the foods are 1) NutriSource has wheat and by-products in some of their foods while Native does not. 2) Native is slightly less expensive since retail prices are generally similar but Native is in a bigger bag.

Native generally retails for $29.99 on a 40# bag. All 4 Levels are the same price. If you have trouble finding it, send me a private email with your personal information and I will either tell you who is carrying it near you or try to get someone set up with it if there is no one carrying it presently.

[311Hemi]

DFG, welcome to the site. It very cool of you to post on here. Hopefully you will stick around and let us pick your brain a little bit!!

Regarding Native, any reason you don't have any bacteria cultures in your food (or did I miss them)?

From the research I have done, do you agree with the following? I just copied a post of mine from another site and was comparing two ingredient lists. I posted them below.

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Yep, that what I have found also based on my reading....thus the first one may actually have more protein from from a grain source (even though it does not look that way) which has a lower biological value where the second one has the main protein source from meat which has a higher biological value. Protein sources from grains are still useful (I believe to help give the dog the amino acids it needs that the main protein source isn't high in), and I am sure there is more to it than this...so hopefully someone with more knowledge may chime in. My guess is most people are burnt out on the dog food debate.

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Food 1: Chicken, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal (Natural source of Glucosamine), Ground Whole Grain Barley, Fish Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (Sugar Removed), Chicken Fat (Preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E).

Food 2:Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken,

[311Hemi]

Regarding the dog food grading scale, in my recent searches to find where it originated I came across this:

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Hi, i've never actually posted here or even visited this site before, but i thought i'd step in and say that *i* am the original poster of this dog food grading system.

My name is Sarah Irick and i am a Great Dane owner and rescue volunteer. i am a Civil/Industrial Engineer, not a veterinarian or animal nutritionist by education or employment. i do not work for a pet food manufacturer nor am i affiliated with one. i am just an individual who is concerned about what i feed my dogs and wants to help others decide what to feed their own. i cannot remember the exact date i designed this system, though i know it's been more than a year (probably 2-3 years ago). i was concerned with the way people sometimes throw out names of "good" dog foods that maybe aren't so good, and others take their words for it. Foods that maybe used to be good before their ingredients were changed for the worse or before better options became available are still being touted by some as being super-premium and i disagree. Since many pet owners do not have the time or inclination to do as many hours of research into pet (specifically dog) nutrition as i and many of you have, i wanted an *easier* way for them to compare labels. Unfortunately it is still a bit cumbersome (sometimes 2 people calculate the same food and get different scores even) but it's better than nothing in my opinion.

Is it exact science? No. i don't claim for it to be. In fact i've had to make a couple of changes over time (which the above don't reflect) for new circumstances i've run across, such as the food that contained NO MEAT (not a special diet just one that was so cheap it didn't contain any meat at all) and needs a steep penalty IMO but still scored a decent grade on the original or the newer kibbles that contain no grain and IMO if it still has sufficient fiber and carbs then it deserves extra credit that wasn't previously reflected. Also i've gotten comments and opinions that i take seriously and incorporate if it seems appropriate.

i don't have a permanent site host for this although seeing how hugely popular it is and how widely spread without accreditation it has become perhaps i should do so. It isn't that i care so much about credit but many people will ask the questions that your posters have about my affiliations and biases, etc.

i don't officially support any one food; anywhere that i personally posted grades on specific foods it was to give an idea of where these foods fell so people didn't always have to do the math.

Sarah Irick aka fredalina If you want to e-mail me with questions or comments, you can at

[email protected].

This is my "spam" address, so put "Dog Food Grading" in the subject line or i'll probably delete it mistakenly.

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I have sent an email with some questions, but have not heard back. Who knows if it's true or not...but the closest I have found.

[DogFoodGuy]

311, I'll stick around. It's helpful to know what kind of questions people have so I'll help out where I can plus I just like to talk about dogs and dog food. I'm assuming you mean yeast cultures and yes they are in the food.

Regarding your quote, you are dead on. Food number 1 is likely sourcing too much protein from corn which, although not worthless, does not provide the proper amino acid profile and is not as bioavailable to dogs. Not all grains are bad but some are better than others.

Food #2 looks like a little better food although it appears to have some frilly ingredients in it that may or may not really help the dog.

Regarding the chart, I'm not saying it is worthless. It still does provide some good direction on whether a food is good or not. Probably 90% of what it is suggesting has some merit but there is some puff in there too.

For example, it says to add points for Glucosamine and Chondroitin. In proper doses, these have had some good results in some dogs. What they don't tell you, though, is there is not enough of these in any commercial dog food to achieve the desired benefit so it doesn't really add to the food value.

This would be like saying 2 Advil tablets is good for a headache so if I take 1/8 of an Advil tablet with every meal I will not get headaches. It's just not enough to help but it is pretty common marketing.

Sorry for the novel but I'll keep checking back periodically if anyone wants to pick my brain (although the pickings may be slim).

[311Hemi]

Thanks DFG!!

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1) I'm assuming you mean yeast cultures and yes they are in the food.

2) For example, it says to add points for Glucosamine and Chondroitin. In proper doses, these have had some good results in some dogs. What they don't tell you, though, is there is not enough of these in any commercial dog food to achieve the desired benefit so it doesn't really add to the food value.

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1) Aahhh, I glanced over that the first time!!

2) I fully agree!

Thanks again, and I like novel regarding dog food or any other dog info!!

[kentuck_ike]

Hey, I tried to send you a private message, but I couldn't get it to work could you e-mail me at [email protected]

[Kallista]

I am a distributer for Eagle Pack

so i feed mine Holistic natural select for puppies