Wetlands and the duck population....

[red ice]

This could be a touchy subject and maybe I ain't posting it in the right place. But, I am just wondering what some of the people out there are thinking. Looking through most of these posts I would have to guess that most of us are levelheaded and use common sense, so what are your comments?

Personally, I don't hunt waterfowl. I do realize that the population has declined in the area. Are farmers to blame for this? Not in my opinion. Where I live there is plenty of wetlands. I believe that over the past few years overall the weather has been screwy and we haven't gotten the rainfall and snow to replenish everything. I think that the wetlands that we do have should be cleaned up a little bit. Work with what you have first. Get the waterfowl coming back to the area. I don't believe that you should be going out and buy a bunch of land to set aside for more wetlands. That is land that farmers could be using to make their living.

These are just my opinions and wondering what some of the others think.

[duckbuster]

The farmers and their land have nothing to do with the ducks I hunt. The MN farm habitat has got nothing to do with divers. You want to shoot mallards all day then maybe you go and talk to the farmers but not divers. Now maybe there is something to be said about what's happening in Canada and the wetlands there but the farms in MN don't have a darn thing to do with my ducks.

[Knute78]

I say don't blame the private farmers. I think it is an issue of policy going back as far as settlement west. At those times there were no laws protecting the wetlands or any idea that these prarie pothole were vital to duck populations. All they knew was that it was great soil for farming. Now we have laws in place but I do believe it is going to take some effort to recreate more sutible habitats. Currently in western MN paririe pothole region less 10% of the historical original wetlands remain, to me that is not enough to sustain duck populations nor should be considered "plenty of wetlands" (no offense). It is the loss of this habitat that is primarily having an impact on the duck populations in the state. However keep in mind that MN is generally a flyway during fall migration and many of these wetlands are simply used as stop overs on the way south, so maybe it is enough wetland for the migration but not enough to sustain local duck numbers.

Now as far as farmers go, and I am no farming expert, feel free to correct me but I do believe local private farmers have the right to do as they please with their lands(under existing laws). However, recently with the huge push in commercialized farming with large land purchases in the state, should this change? Should large corporations be required to be more habitat friendly under the law to protect these remaining wetlands? And yes I know they must follow the existing Wetland Conservation Act. Should they do more beyond what is required of the private small time farmer?

Anyways just a thought from here, didn't mean any of this to be offensive.

[Eric Wettschreck]

The duck population will not return until there are enough wetlands to support them. As we continue to drain the prairie potholes we continue to hurt the duck population.

[lumbertick]

For everyone interested on this subject check out the Ducks, WEtlands and Clean Water Rally HSOforum posted in the waterfowl section. Also check out the Isaac Walton league, they have a lot of information on this subject. Not to bash any one here, but a lot of people are misinformed on the wetland issue.

A couple quick points though;

1. To say that your ducks aren't affected by wetland and agriculture drainage is completely wrong, unless your ducks migrate on a 747 and eat at the mall. Ducks migrate and use wetlands all across the nation...including Minnesota. Ducks in ponds are not just there swimming...they are eating and trying to put on body fat for reproduction or migration...poor quality or lack of wetlands means less food. Divers are included this too.

2. If you are looking to blame someone for wetland loss and destruction look in the mirror. We are all responsible. In the early 1900's when a ton of wetlands were lost the Gov't subsidised the ditching. Wetlands were looked at as a bad thing and farmers were encouraged to destroy them. We went from some 20 million acres of wetlands to about 10 in a hurry. Devolpment and current agriculture practices are still a threat to wetlands...although the destruction has slowed a bit. If we want that to stop, we need to be active in supporting the organizations that are working to improve this situation. If you are not a part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

3. Even if you don't hunt ducks, this issue effects you because it effects water quality. Why do you suppose the Minnesota river is the top contributor to the zone of Hypoxia in the Gulf of Mexico??? It just happens to run through the area of the state that has the greatest amount wetland damamge and destruction. The facts are all there and we need to start moving before its too late.

lt

[WaveWacker]

There are many variables that are affecting waterfowl populations in a negative aspect. One of them is the practice of drainage.

This not only affects completely drained wetland but the ones that we still have (which was stated above). In a nutshell wetlands need a period of "draw down" to refresh themselves so to speak (vegetatively and invertebrate wise).

Drainage in general (be it from Rural or Urban sources) adds a lot of baseline or consistent flows of water to wetlands, holding them at higher levels. This is on top of the amount of sediment, nutrients, etc. that is carried as well.

Don't get me wrong, there is a place for agriculture as I farm myself. One other big issue is the gov. payments that are given to producers to grow crops compared to the payment rate of some of the available programs (CRP, CCRP, WHIP, WRP, etc.). The fact of the matter is that there far more potential and existing wetland areas on privately owned land then there is state/federal. Until incentives are increased to make it more attractive for a producer to turn marginal cropland into habitat I think it is going to be an uphill battle.

The encouraging part is that there are plenty of us that are interested in this topic. Contact your gov. officials and let them know your concerns. That's what they are there for.

WW

[Knute78]

I didn't mean to make it seem like duck populations are not effected by wetland drainage or that MN is simply a "stop over" for many ducks and have no influence on duck populations. I totally agree with eveything you have said lumbertick, we are all definately responsible. Most of the things you have stated, I have actually taken classes on, including, wetlands and how the loss of these ecosystems may effect duck and animal populations and water quality (I am graduatind this Spring from SCSU with a degree in Environmental Studies). I simply thought I'd give some background on wetlands and what I have learned in some of my classes and some if the bigger issues wetlands are facing.

[red ice]

Has anybody watched the water levels in the lakes over the past few years. I myself have noticed it is down a good three feet, could be more. We are not receiving the rain and snowfall that we used to (especially snowfall). I don't see farmers draining wetlands at all, not for a long time. What I do see is cities expanding and they don't seem to care what they are putting their new housing developments and shopping centers on.

Once again, more of my two cents. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Even though I'm right and their wrong. JUST KIDDING!

RED

[PikeTipper]

Must be your location because I haven't seen low water levels on West Central MN lakes since the early 90's. Seems like even during years with less precip the lakes are still higher than you would think they should be.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Where I live in SW MN the lake levels have dropped a lot. The years we get a decent snowfall and rain in the summer keeps them full. The last few years they have been pretty low. Many ponds have dried up or are close to dried up.

[lawdog]

I agree Boilerguy. The lakes fair better than the ponds and sloughs. There are many duck sloughs I hunt that have had very low water levels the last few years. Some you couldn't even wade across now barely float my Carson one man duck boat in spots. I'd say MANY of the sloughs I frequent have been 2 to 4 feet down in water levels from what they once were. The lakes though seem to do a little better because they drain a much bigger area I think and have a little less natural fluctuation.

[lumbertick]

Knute, you're right, it's all about spreading the knowledge, not playing the blame game, and getting things fixed!

Red, in your area about 95%(conservative dnr estimate) of the wetlands are gone...there is not much left to see being drained, but that water in those big ditches is coming from somewhere. That somewhere is miles of underground tile that pass through the hydric soils and keep them dry. As far as lake levels, I am wondering if you are not seeing the effects of the aquifer not being adequately recharged from lack of wetlands...just a theory. The lake levels around here stay fairly stable because they are controlled by dams!

lt

[beefman]

Hey Red,

You have made a great discussion. I'm sure alot of other farmers like us would like to voice their opinion on these issues. The farmers are not to blame for duck hunters not being able to bang their limit everytime they go out. Isn't that the average duck hunters real issue. I'm not saying every duck hunter goes out to slaughter ducks every time out, but there are a few who do. Blame nature and some slob hunters!! Back in the fall of 1985, there were ducks everywhere because we had one of the wettest falls ever. I remember riding in the combine as a kid and watching Dad sit back and do the "ohh sh*t" because we would be combining around water in the corn and soybean fields. I also remember hunters asking to hunt and then shooting mallards by the dozens, hens or drakes. We had less wetlands and didn't even have CRP back then. What we did have was high water tables with high rainfalls. Just like eastern North and South Dakota have been having. What a coincidence that's where all the waterfowl have gone. The farmers and cowmen used to burn up by July up there now they are green till fall. Those years will come back here again and when they do I hope the DNR restricts the bag limits and take away every 4x4 truck for every duck that the slob hunters are over their limit!!

John 3:16

[kpj5br]

Beefman,

I both agree and disagree with you. The part that I disagree on is that by the tone of your post you encourage punitive actions on hunters "take away a 4x4 truck..." yet you sign your post with the Gospel of John who encourages forgiveness...interesting...I once heard there was a word for that which starts with an h...

In any case, the bottom line is trying to lay blame is not productive, as several have said already. It is wonderful that these discussions are taking place, whichever forum they are in. Wetlands, water quality, and waterfowl not only go hand-in-hand, but also affect many, many other aspects of our lives, including large river pollution, crop health, etc. Bottom line is it's in all of our best interests to work to make these things better, together, not battling each other.

Step one is acknowledging that there is a problem. The vast majority of outdoorsman (hunters, fisherman, hikers, etc.) already do, and 100% of biologists and environmentalists that are worth their weight in salt already do. The rest of us need to get on board and demand that steps are taken to remediate those.

Remediation does NOT mean making farmers lose productive acreage, making hunters quit hunting, or other nonsense measures. It means investing the time and resources necessary to come up with a fair, equitable, and sustainable solution for all parties, and it is very doable.

The way we all help with is to do a couple of things:

1) Support and/or attend the Wetlands, Water, and Waterfowl Rally on April 2nd at the state capital.

2) Sign up with one or more of the organizations whose sole mission is to support this reform, the Minnesota Waterfowl Association, Ducks Unlimited, etc.

We can all do this, and we all need to.

[M.T. Bucket]

This is one issue where hunters and environmentalists should be able to come together to work on more and better habitat for waterfowl (and other wetland species).

I only piped in because I noticed a little something missing from this discussion...

With both farms and suburban development come another problems for ducks--mammalian predators. Skunks, foxes, raccoons, etc. nab ducks, chicks, and clutches of eggs. And for every kill there are probably others that are driven from nests or even entire potholes by these predators. Whenever human presence increases, these species tend to increase as well. Food for thought.