Thread Choices

[clKiekhafer]

Hi Everyone,

I've been using threads in the NCP version from Fish Hawk, ProWrap and Gudebrod with good success, but sometimes it has been difficult in getting the "right" color. I was walking through my local W store today and can across the thread section in the craft area of the store. Ha anyone ever used any of those threads and what success did you have. Also, what kind of characteristic or qualities did you look for when you chose one. I noticed some made from polyester, rayon and cotton. I assume cotton is not a good choice. Also does one need to apply CP to these threads to keep their "true" color?

Thanks for any comments you post.

[upnorth]

You can use embroidery threads, BUT STAY AWAY FROM RAYON BASED. I use Mettler Polysheen, it is a strong polyester thread and there are others that will work, but again look to be sure it isn't rayon. Rayon is just not strong enough for Rod Building. But be aware that it is not NCP. And some brands have silicone to help running through embroidery needles and can make finishing without CP a huge PITA.

That all being said the color select is outstanding compared to rod building threads.

[clKiekhafer]

Do you know if Mettler Polysheen uses silicone? Would it be a safe bet that if the thread is designed for machine use that it will have a silicone additive?

Thanks for you quick response upnorth!

[upnorth]

I am not sure, but I use CP on everything. From a couple of your posts you are using NCP. Normal nylon/polyester type threads let the under color bleed through a lot more than NCP. There a patterns that rely on bleed through mostly Tartans. With a non NCP thread if you put yellow over greed you are going to get an entirely different shade where the yellow goes over the green as compare to where it goes over the blank itself.

NCP threads from what I have seen don't seem to have brightness of regular nylon/polyester.

[clKiekhafer]

upnorth,

You are right, I've been using nothing but NCP threads up to this point. I was under the belief that you have a better bond with the guide foot using NCP threads verus CP threads with CP preserver so I was staying with NCP thread. I've samples of CP thread w/o using CP and the thread became translucent, is that common? Maybe the theory about using CP on the threads is over rated and I shouldn't shy away from using it.

Any thoughts?

[upnorth]

I have a close to 30 year old fly rod that I built for steelhead/salmon river fishing. I have used and abused that rod for yrs. I also built it using standard nylon thread with CP. Not one guide has managaged to wiggle loose.

For the most part is is the thread that holds the guided to the blank, epoxy is a thread covering not an adhesive. Look at how easily you can peel it off a blank. CP will also saturate the threads and fill voids in the thread and between the guide foot and the blank.

There are many, many people who have built very durable rods with standard thread using CP over the years. I wouldn't be hesitant to use it.

But on the topic of securing guides thread tension comes into play. Standard is that you have enough tension to hold the guide to the blank with just enough play that you can slightly move the guide to align and it shouldn't move easily.

I short my opinion is that if you properly secure the guide to the blank with the proper tension and proper application of CP, then epoxy, it will be rare that a guide would work lose.

[clKiekhafer]

Thanks upnorth once again for your advise and for sharing it with many that visit this site. I've learn so much in the past 9 months or so from where I start (knowing nothing about rod building) and there is so much more to learn that it will keep me very busy well into the future.

I hope you don't get tired of me, or others that want to pick the great minds on this HSOforum for the vast knowledge that is that they contain.

Thanks Once Again!

[upnorth]

Glad to help where I can.

[A.W.Wolfram]

I was under the belief that you have a better bond with the guide foot using NCP threads verus CP threads with CP preserver so I was staying with NCP thread.

Your belief is correct. You do get a better bond when using epoxy on the thread vs. CP then epoxy. And I also ditto what upnorth stated as I also have older rods with CP and some with CP/epoxy and CP/varnish on them that have no issues with guides coming loose or falling out.

The question is how stroung dose it need to be. With the rods we use in this region I dont see the need for that type of bond. I do use it fos some of the cat rods I build but that typicly is due the the rough conditions and the size of the fish we see but it has more to do with the persion im building for. Some guys are very tough on there equipment.

Now if you were to be building a stand up tuna rod with roller guides or a heavy boat rod with carbide boat guides then there is a reason.

To add to what upnort said, The thread holds the guide to the blank. Tension is the key and can also be the demise. Too much tension will cause some serious issues when the rod is loaded.

If you want a better bound learn the Forhan locking wrap (do a search)

it works wonders on single foot guides and especially micro guides.

Thread:

NCP has its place and time. Nylons will give you more brilliant colors and depth. NCP looks like paint. If you are going to put hours and hours into a butt wrap I would suggest using nylons.

Embroidery thread:

Here is my take on embroidery thread.

40# embroidery thread is slightly smaller than size "A" thread.

Yes it dose have a silicone lubricant in it. If you do nothing to this thread you will get fish eyes in your epoxy finish. The tricks I use with this type of thread are 3 coats of CP ALWAYS and then when i'm mixing my epoxy I take a 1" piece of the same thread I used on the wrap and put it in the mixing cup and then mix the epoxy. Don't ask why it works, it just works so do it.

embroidery thread is sweet for dec wraps because there is 340+ colors to choose from and shading is a lot easier when there is 30 different blues to chose from.

I use Madeira mostly and some times Sulky. I would stick to those brands.