Muzzle loader season

[Musky Buck]

Thing is lakevet, we did used to hunt your style much more in the past, we also had 6 farms and a 2 day season, we couldn't wait for deer to come to us or you blink an eye and season done. The 1987 blizzard none of us got to hunt. Now 5 of those farms are owned by deer hunters and the days of the farmer saying go ahead are over. So they lump us into zone 2 giving us a 9 day season plus muzzleloader, many quit making drives and hunting differently. Deer hunting is more of an event now then an actual hunt. I wish I could go back to 1983 and do it all over again, it was 3 days bucks only the 1st wkd and 2 day lottery the 2nd weekend, your choice, I think 1 guy in our town of 4,000 muzzleloaded then, of course he owned the hardware store and could order up what he needed to hunt with, I asked why no muzzy's on the shelf he said no one would buy them, they cost a ton, are heavy as ever, and finding what you need isn't always handy. We're an overpopulated state in a sense by deer hunter numbers with diverse cover options to hunt. We're sitting closer together now then we ever were and rumor has it, it isn't going to get better in that respect. Every property line I have has shooting lanes cut right down the length of it and box stands on every side possible, or if it's open field the big boxes are just out there watching the edge, 0 of those new stands are mine it's the last decade that brought about the pressure that's at a level where natural deer movement is extremely limited, but that's what it is and a deer is just a deer and as long as people hunt legally what can 1 do, accept it.

[Musky Buck]

I thank you for talking deer Lakevet, next November feels eon's away!

[FISHINGURU]

The mature bucks seem to know who has the limited abilities when they exit an area! Doing the "guide treatment" for others is a different kind of satisfaction, esp late season muzzy. But that is why we like muzzleloading party hunting/ buck crosstagging. So we can gift those tags if they do connect more than once

Is it legal to party hunt/ buck crosstagging? I thought if you get a buck your done and there is no more party hunting for bucks or buck crosstagging.

[lakevet]

Absolutely legal and ethical to cross tag bucks during all deer seasons outside of SE Minnesota experimental regulations area. Clearly stated in the regulation book.

The ban on gifting your tag to your kid, Dad , etc. in Southeast Minnesota is only temporary and will be up for review after next year.

Cross tagging/ tag gifting ban likely won't change the harvest of antlerless deer much according to the DNR. So the fact is that this regulation has very little impact on deer population and bucks in population! Reduction in muzzleloader buck harvest in experimental zone is miniscule at best, and as such has no sound biological basis. Strictly a "I don't like your way of hunting" ban when it comes to banning muzzleloading buck cross tagging. Lou Cornecelli says "I have unabashedly said that if you want more mature bucks in the population, why do we let people shoot bucks for each other?" Obviously Lou, who knows the facts that this reg does not improve or change the amount of mature bucks in a population, and that Wisc and Iowa realize this and consider it a non issue, personally wants that regulation because he doesn't like my letting my son tag a buck with my tag while legally party hunting with me. Again cross tagging ban for bucks will not significantly increase number of big bucks in population.

The ban on tag gifting was supposed to increase the antlerless harvest WHICH IS THE PRIMARY REASON THE EXPERIMENTAL REGULATIONS WERE IMPLEMENTED AND ARE TO BE EVALUATED BY. At least according to the DNR. Will they evaluate according to that? I hope so, but don't trust them to do that, unless feet are held to the fire. Total deer kill was up in the Southeast BUT ANTLERLESS KILL WAS DOWN IN SOUTHEAST MINNESOTA. THIS IS A FAILURE TO MEET THE PRIMARY JUSTIFICATION/GOAL OF THESE REGULATIONS.

Remember our neighboring states Iowa and Wisconsin both consistently produce big bucks AND allow buck cross tagging year after year after year after year.............. In famous Buffalo county Wisconsin, right across the river from Minnesota's experimental regs area, buck cross tagging/ gifting tags/party hunting bucks is legal.

Sorry for the rant, but when regs are imposed that don't have sound biological basis and actually are disproved as unnecessary every year by not one but the two closest neighboring states, and the regs are also the least favored of possible reg changes by Blufflands whitetails, and they are not resulting in a modest increase in antlerless harvest ( the reason that the DNR uses to justify the regs), why do we have them and have people wanting to roll them out statewide?

lakevet

[lakevet]

Thing is lakevet, we did used to hunt your style much more in the past, we also had 6 farms and a 2 day season, we couldn't wait for deer to come to us or you blink an eye and season done. The 1987 blizzard none of us got to hunt. Now 5 of those farms are owned by deer hunters and the days of the farmer saying go ahead are over. So they lump us into zone 2 giving us a 9 day season plus muzzleloader, many quit making drives and hunting differently. Deer hunting is more of an event now then an actual hunt. I wish I could go back to 1983 and do it all over again, it was 3 days bucks only the 1st wkd and 2 day lottery the 2nd weekend, your choice, I think 1 guy in our town of 4,000 muzzleloaded then, of course he owned the hardware store and could order up what he needed to hunt with, I asked why no muzzy's on the shelf he said no one would buy them, they cost a ton, are heavy as ever, and finding what you need isn't always handy. We're an overpopulated state in a sense by deer hunter numbers with diverse cover options to hunt. We're sitting closer together now then we ever were and rumor has it, it isn't going to get better in that respect. Every property line I have has shooting lanes cut right down the length of it and box stands on every side possible, or if it's open field the big boxes are just out there watching the edge, 0 of those new stands are mine it's the last decade that brought about the pressure that's at a level where natural deer movement is extremely limited, but that's what it is and a deer is just a deer and as long as people hunt legally what can 1 do, accept it.

Someday the idea of having to chose only one season or unfortunately a lottery WILL be needed as land access decreases and human population increases. It may not be in my lifetime, but for sure in my children's lifetime. If it doesn't happen the woods will continue to become more "suburbanized", in the sense that in the suburbs you look out your bathroom window at the neighbor in his bathroom window looking back at you. Same thing Saturday morning at the lake cabin, looking at someone looking back at you from their cabin next door, or the pontoon anchored in front of the dock. Deer stands are becoming the same. People in boxes looking at other people in boxes. If that is a great hunting experience for them, I feel sorry as they likely (not always) don't know what it is like to have at least the illusion of being out in the woods without seeing other people, much less hunting deer that haven't been pounded for two 16 day firearm/muzzy seasons, trail cammed flashed, spot lighted, etc. Or that experience of tracking deer for long distances. Not wanting it just for myself, but to have a season that is for those average people with modest means who want a very low hunter density "wild " experience, with access to land, including private, anywhere in the state. Not wanting to exclude anyone, just share/ take turns so we don't end up stacked on top of each other.

lakevet

[Musky Buck]

Remember Iowa takes about 100,000 deer per year, often times about 250 shed antlered bucks, roughly 10,000 fawn bucks, find that an interesting stat Iowa keeps we lump as does. Wisconsin has the best habitat in my mind from north-south east-west. MN is much more diverse than any of these. Western MN is north Dakota, Northern MN is Canada, South is more like Iowa etc. It makes sense some why we had 4 zones etc. But we can talk habitat, etc all we want, we've got a lot of people on a ton of small properties. I'm very thankful for this cakewalk winter thus far with deer numbers as low as they are in most of my hunting areas with wolves also in and out of many of these small properties now the last few years. Muzzleloader season, I'm with you vet, my dad gave up deer hunting altogether once they changed it for the reasons you state, our area is # 1 when it comes to muzzleloader numbers and the harvest, area 240. The very reason why my dad was in that 10,000 old school hunters, just for the solitude, there weren't many in area 240 who would choose muzzy over rifle hunting as this area is often the top buck producing area of them all, highest buck to doe ratio in the state. If that info is wrong someone please correct me. Hopefully Lou will analyze and make suggestions to keep trying to get the formula right, not for us, for the deer, but yes for us to.