PS3 Nat 2 help

[spearchucker]

Upnorth, the reason we were talking about internal network speed is because lawn was asking about streaming HD content from a PC. This takes a lot of bandwidth and will easily overrun a wireless G connection. That is why I recommended a wired connection for this purpose. I know, I have tried it and do it on a daily basis.

Quote:

It will be acting like an AP not a modem. It will not be Modulating/Demodulation anything. All it will do is allow you to make the connection from the air to the wire. And you will need to have a DHCP server on the other side handing out IP addresses, and most ISPs will only allow you to have one. And that will really limit your internal network.

When the modem is setup in bridge mode it would absolutely be modulating and demodulating the DSL signal and converting it to ethernet. It is a bridge from the DSL signal to ethernet. DHCP would be turned off in the modem so that is the reason that another router would be needed. All it does is provide an ethernet interface to the DSL network so that his Belkin router can get an IP address from Frontier.

The multiple NATs work but many PS3 games don't like this and have connection issues with the servers. From what pureinsanity said this may be because of the way Frontier is doing their NAT. We may not be able to get away from this with Frontier.

DMZ will only expose 1 IP address on the LAN to the WAN internet side without any firewall. It doesn't expose the entire network. I understand security concerns with a PC in the DMZ as someone could take control of it and have access to the LAN, but this is not really possible with a PS3.

[upnorth]

Modulating/demodulating happens when going from analog to digital. DSL is digital.

Not all streaming consumes that much baudrate. Most of what I just looked up calls for something under 1 mb of bandwidth.

[spearchucker]

Not all streaming consumes that much baudrate. Most of what I just looked up calls for something under 1 mb of bandwidth.

There is no way that you can stream HD content with 1mb of bandwidth. If you have found a way then you are going to make a lot of money.

[spearchucker]

Modulating/demodulating happens when going from analog to digital. DSL is digital.

Read up on how a DSL modem works and get back to me on this.

[upnorth]

Ya mean this. Just cuz it is a commonly used slang term doesn't mean it modulates/demodulates. I know I am splitting hairs here, but they don't modulate/demodulate from analog to digital, it is alreay a digital signal

Maybe easier to understand.

How It Works

Traditional phone service (sometimes called POTS for "plain old telephone service") connects your home or small business to a telephone company office over copper wires that are wound around each other and called twisted pair . Traditional phone service was created to let you exchange voice information with other phone users and the type of signal used for this kind of transmission is called an analog signal. An input device such as a phone set takes an acoustic signal (which is a natural analog signal) and converts it into an electrical equivalent in terms of volume (signal amplitude) and pitch (frequency of wave change). Since the telephone company's signalling is already set up for this analog wave transmission, it's easier for it to use that as the way to get information back and forth between your telephone and the telephone company. That's why your computer has to have a modem - so that it can demodulate the analog signal and turn its values into the string of 0 and 1 values that is called digital information.

Because analog transmission only uses a small portion of the available amount of information that could be transmitted over copper wires, the maximum amount of data that you can receive using ordinary modems is about 56 Kbps (thousands of bits per second). (With ISDN , which one might think of as a limited precursor to DSL, you can receive up to 128 Kbps.) The ability of your computer to receive information is constrained by the fact that the telephone company filters information that arrives as digital data, puts it into analog form for your telephone line, and requires your modem to change it back into digital. In other words, the analog transmission between your home or business and the phone company is a bandwidth bottleneck.

Digital Subscriber Line is a technology that assumes digital data does not require change into analog form and back. Digital data is transmitted to your computer directly as digital data and this allows the phone company to use a much wider bandwidth for transmitting it to you. Meanwhile, if you choose, the signal can be separated so that some of the bandwidth is used to transmit an analog signal so that you can use your telephone and computer on the same line and at the same time.

And this.

Physical connection must come first. On the customer side, the DSL Transceiver, or ATU-R, or more commonly known as a DSL modem, is hooked up to a phone line. The telephone company(telco) connects the other end of the line to a DSLAM, which concentrates a large number of individual DSL connections into a single box. The location of the DSLAM depends on the telco, but it cannot be located too far from the user because of attenuation, the loss of data due to the large amount of electrical resistance encountered as the data moves between the DSLAM and the user's DSL modem. It is common for a few residential blocks to be connected to one DSLAM.

When the DSL modem powers up it goes through a sync procedure. The actual process varies from modem to modem but generally involves the following steps:

The DSL transceiver performs a self-test.

The DSL transceiver checks the connection between the DSL transceiver and the computer. For residential variations of DSL, this is usually the Ethernet (RJ-45) port or a USB port; in rare models, a FireWire port is used. Older DSL modems sported a native ATM interface (usually, a 25 Mbit serial interface). Also, some variations of DSL (such as SDSL) use synchronous serial connections.

The DSL transceiver then attempts to synchronize with the DSLAM. Data can only come into the computer when the DSLAM and the modem are synchronized. The synchronization process is relatively quick (in the range of seconds) but is very complex, involving extensive tests that allow both sides of the connection to optimize the performance according to the characteristics of the line in use. External, or stand-alone modem units have an indicator labeled "CD", "DSL", or "LINK", which can be used to tell if the modem is synchronized. During synchronization the light flashes; when synchronized, the light stays lit, usually with a green color.

Modern DSL gateways have more functionality and usually go through an initialization procedure very similar to a PC boot up. The system image is loaded from the flash memory; the system boots, synchronizes the DSL connection and establishes the IP connection between the local network and the service provider, using protocols such as DHCP or PPPoE. The system image can usually be updated to correct bugs, or to add new functionality.

The accompanying figure is a schematic of a simple DSL connection. The right side the shows a DSLAM residing in the telco’s central office. The left side shows the customer premises equipment with an optional router. This router manages a local area network (LAN) off of which are connected some number of PCs. With many service providers, the customer may opt for a modem which contains a wireless router. This option (within the dashed bubble) often simplifies the connection.

[upnorth]

This DSL/Cable modem thing is a hold over from the years when people went from their 56k modem to digital cable or Digital Subscriber Lines, it was easier for people to just think that they were getting a Cable or DSL modem than sort of fancy smancy digital transceiver. I would say it is more of a nick name than anything.

[LwnmwnMan2]

Right now the PS3 is wired, my range extenders all work and the computers work.

I'm leaving everything as is.

I have 1-2" of snow to plow again tomorrow.

[spearchucker]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Glad you got it working.

[LwnmwnMan2]

One more question though, in case it doesn't snow and we get the tree decorated.

If I bridge the Siemens, will I then be able to run at "N" speeds instead of the "g" speeds?

Or will I stay at the "g" speeds the "router" part of the Siemens puts out?

[spearchucker]

Quote:

Ya mean this. Just cuz it is a commonly used slang term doesn't mean it modulates/demodulates. I know I am splitting hairs here, but they don't modulate/demodulate from analog to digital, it is alreay a digital signa

Google DSL and Digital Modulation Types. They aren't just throwing a plain old TTL signal down the phone line.

[spearchucker]

One more question though, in case it doesn't snow and we get the tree decorated.

If I bridge the Siemens, will I then be able to run at "N" speeds instead of the "g" speeds?

Or will I stay at the "g" speeds the "router" part of the Siemens puts out?

If you can successfully bridge the Siemens modem you would be able to use the full capabilities of your Belkin router. The Siemens would have the wireless radio shutoff. All the Siemens would be doing is giving your Belkin an interface to the DSL line. So in short, yes you would get N.

[spearchucker]

Do you still need the range extenders with the Belkin router? Unless you have a big multi-story house I wouldn't think you would need them, but every house is different. I still have an older G router in my basement office in one corner of my house and it covers the entire house with pretty good signal.

[upnorth]

You still missing the point.

Quote:

The word "modem" is short for "modulator-demodulator" which is essentially what it does. A computer moves data around on parallel wires by applying one or another voltage to each wire (representing 0's and 1's) and the voltage is read at the other end of the wires. This is digital communication. In order for multiple computers to communicate over greater distances, a method was developed to exchange data over a world-wide pre-existing network: the telephone network. Telephone transmissions are analog in nature. Instead of streaming ones and zeroes with varying voltage over multiple parallel wires, signals are sent as analog wave frequencies (sounds) over a single wire.

With DSL there is no Demodulation needed, it is already ones and zeros on the wire.

Quote:

The aim of digital modulation is to transfer a digital bit stream over an analog bandpass channel, for example over the public switched telephone network (where a bandpass filter limits the frequency range to between 300 and 3400 Hz), or over a limited radio frequency band.

[spearchucker]

How do those 1's and 0's get combined with the voice data then if they are not modulated in some fashion?

[upnorth]

Ah yes...they do get modulated, but not demodulated on the receiving end. The 1s and 0s are put in the line in a different frequency than the analog signal.

As I said earlier I was splitting hairs.

I have spent some time working with phone people too. A first this stuff is like "huh, what it crosses the same lines, but different?"

[spearchucker]

You can call it splitting hairs but you are not right and I don't need anything simplified for me. You are already looking at this in a simplified form. You can't just send a pure digital signal through the telephone system unless Frontier has went in and designed a pure digital system which I know they haven't.

You are right that they use a frequency higher than the voice audio band, but how do these 1's and 0's get at that frequency?.... They are modulated onto that frequency. On the other end the lower voice frequency and the higher data frequencies are split using a filter and the voice data goes to your phone and the higher frequency digital data goes to the DSL modem where it is demodulated into digital data that is repackaged up in ethernet packets or USB format and delivered to your PC or router. The two frequency bands are no different than 2 radio stations broadcasting. You tune into one for voice and the other for data. Even though it is called a digital line, it is really a high frequency analog carrier signal modulated with data. That is what SYNC lights are all about on a DSL modem. You get SYNC when you can tune into and communicate with the DSLAM on the other end.

Also this is pretty much the same thing that happens with cable modems as well. This is how you will get broadband internet until they run Gigabit ethernet right up to your house.

[LwnmwnMan2]

I have range expanders because my PS3 would usually only show about a 57% signal strength without it.

I also shoot my internet out to a pole barn about 140' +/- from the house.

[pureinsanity]

you got nat type 2 now?

[spearchucker]

Internet in the pole barn... that has got to be the man cave.

[LwnmwnMan2]

you got nat type 2 now?

nope

[spearchucker]

I would be interested to see what the ip address of WAN side of your Belkin router is. Is it a private address or a routable ip.

[upnorth]

Quote:

You are right that they use a frequency higher than the voice audio band, but how do these 1's and 0's get at that frequency?.... They are modulated onto that frequency. On the other end the lower voice frequency and the higher data frequencies are split using a filter and the voice data goes to your phone and the higher frequency digital data goes to the DSL modem where it is demodulated into digital data that is repackaged up in ethernet packets or USB format and delivered to your PC or router. The two frequency bands are no different than 2 radio stations broadcasting. You tune into one for voice and the other for data. Even though it is called a digital line, it is really a high frequency analog carrier signal modulated with data. That is what SYNC lights are all about on a DSL modem. You get SYNC when you can tune into and communicate with the DSLAM on the other end.

Here read this.

Read me

It just doesn't work the same as analog. Works close to T1 and DS1 lines. You can send digital over copper, where did they tell you you can't.

[LwnmwnMan2]

I would be interested to see what the ip address of WAN side of your Belkin router is. Is it a private address or a routable ip.

I don't know, and with 12" of snow on the way, it doesn't really concern me right now.

I'll have to figure it out sometime next week, if it'll just FREAKING QUIT SNOWING!!!!

[spearchucker]

Here read this.

Read me

It just doesn't work the same as analog. Works close to T1 and DS1 lines. You can send digital over copper, where did they tell you you can't.

Since you won't believe me or my explanation of how DSL works, I guess I will have to try to find a link on the internet to let you read. Maybe then you will believe me.

You are not going to send a straight digital square wave (1's and 0's) over the phone system along with voice data without modulation. If you have modulation then you need demodulation to make sense of the data. They call them digital lines because they carry digital information. The digital information is modulated onto an analog signal which carries the information to the receiving end where the signal is demodulated and the digital data is recovered. How does digital radio and digital tv get to your house?... the same way except the medium isn't a wire. The digital TV also contains a demodulator to recover the digital tv data. They aren't just blasting high and low out the transmitter.

If I am wrong then explain how the digital data coexists on the same wire with the voice? I will post a link when I find one.

[spearchucker]

I don't know, and with 12" of snow on the way, it doesn't really concern me right now.

I'll have to figure it out sometime next week, if it'll just FREAKING QUIT SNOWING!!!!

I here ya, it is going to be another year of snow every few days I think.