Anybody fish Susan by Eden Prairie

[Scott M]

I have a buddy working on that lake. He estimated 60-70% of the biomass in that lake is carp (it's his study species). Might be a great place to bring the bow or rod.

[erickol]

Where is it in Eden Prairie? I'm always game to try a new water. What size lake is it anyway?

In the course of his study has he determined a mean size?

It would be cool to find a lake that had a very occasional winter kill to keep the numbers from going crazy and to help the big ones get really big. Eric

[erickol]

I just went to the MN DNR lake finder. For the 2003 sample, bullheads were #1 in the sample and few carp were sampled. But we know that this doesn't mean much. Some of my favorite carp spots have shown little or no carp in any of the samples I've read.

I wonder how that happens? When you can see a lake is lousy with carp, yet only two show up in your nets. To me that would seem problamatic and the statistics generated would be suspect.

Has your buddy fished it for carp yet?

[Scott M]

Susan is like 90-100 acres. He isn't an angler. I saw a picture of him holding a behemoth fish though. This guy has a pretty good statistical mind, so when he says 60-70% he's not one to exaggerate. If its like other carp lakes the visibility probably stinks, so bowfishing might be poor, but I haven't been there so I don't know. Get out and fish it and let us know your thoughts.

[Carp-fisher]

I've never fished Susan, but Staring Lake down the road is jam packed full of carp. Fish by the inlet with corn and you should be able to hook into something big. I've only fished it in May and June, however.

[Scott M]

Talked to my friend again, he said from mark-recapture estimates there are 3-4 thousand carp in Susan. He has been using an aqua-vu to see if the carp are coming into their baited areas. Their bait of choice right now is corn. He said one night they went through 400 kilograms of corn in 2 hours, that's almost half a ton!

I asked about the size structure and he said they get up to 30 inches.

Get out there while you can it sounds like, and if you see anyone staring into an aqua-vu say hi.

[erickol]

Hey guys,

I did have a chance to fish susan for a bit today. It was very windy and crummy weatherr for fishing. Saw no carp activity, and did not bring enough for an effective chum. Ended up at the dock fishing sunnies with some folks. They had no idea about the chum spot or any thing else. Where on the lake did you buddy dump all that corn?

I did see some promising spots and I will return to fish it proper some other date.

I saw a few spots that will be jumping during spawn!

[Blue Kayak]

Quote:

---

He said one night they went through 400 kilograms of corn in 2 hours, that's almost half a ton!

---

This statement about baiting has bothered me for some time. Finally I had to do some calculations. Phosphorus is the nutrient of greatest concern for Minnesota lakes as it leads to increased algae and weed growth.

This amount of corn contains 2.36 pounds of phosphorus. That may not seem like much, but it would take 23 cows a day to excrete that much phosphorus. If the corn disappeared in two hours, the added phosphorus is equivalent to having 280 cows "pastured" on the lake for two hours. What kind of study on carp is worth adding that much phosphours to a small, urban lake?

[erickol]

wow. Thanks for the perspective.

[Scott M]

What if I told you that it was a study that is advancing techniques on the removal of invasive carp from Minnesota, possibly the U.S., or even the world?

Research: Invasive Carp Biology and Management

I'll take your calculations at face value but I'd be willing to bet that the amount of phosphorus from the corn pales in comparison to the amount that is unlocked from the detritus during carp's normal foraging behaviors (stirring up the bottom). Other fish wouldn't disturb the sediments that much so there wouldn't be that much phosphorus mixed into the water column fueling primary production in algae and macrophytes.

It's a tradeoff, experiment on a small urban lake that currently has limited to no recreational value with potentially good information gathered at the expense of dumping in some bait, or don't partake in the research at all.

I hope this answers your question.

[Blue Kayak]

I am glad the research is being put to good use. I am certainly in favor of research. Thanks for the link.

[Carp-fisher]

Quote:

---

What if I told you that it was a study that is advancing techniques on the removal of invasive carp from Minnesota, possibly the U.S., or even the world?

Research: Invasive Carp Biology and Management

I'll take your calculations at face value but I'd be willing to bet that the amount of phosphorus from the corn pales in comparison to the amount that is unlocked from the detritus during carp's normal foraging behaviors (stirring up the bottom). Other fish wouldn't disturb the sediments that much so there wouldn't be that much phosphorus mixed into the water column fueling primary production in algae and macrophytes.

It's a tradeoff, experiment on a small urban lake that currently has limited to no recreational value with potentially good information gathered at the expense of dumping in some bait, or don't partake in the research at all.

I hope this answers your question.

---

Hey Da_chise,

Ask your friend if he knows a guy named Calvin Newton. Calvin is my little bro and he's in the fisheries biology program at the U and a carp enthusiast. I've heard him talk about this study. Interesting,

Ben

[Scott M]

Good to hear carp-fisher. My buddy didn't know him personally, but it's a big campus.

***********************************

From Star Tribune:

U of M study looks to make carp less common

by Laurie Bladke

Having found a way to reduce sea lampreys in the Great Lakes, Peter Sorensen now is taking on the common carp. The University of Minnesota biologist has begun a scientific study in three lakes in Eden Prairie and Chanhassen that could offer the first hope for thinning the nasty bottom diggers from lakes across the country.

"We think it's important to show people we can do something with an invasive animal -- that science can do things," he said.

Two-thirds of all Minnesota lakes -- and all metro-area lakes -- are infested with the common carp. And it's a national problem as well, said Sorensen, who works in the university's Department of Fisheries, Wildlife and Conservation Biology.

Carp make clear waters murky by churning up clouds of sediment in their search for food. They can dig a foot into the muck at the bottom of a lake, uprooting good plants and stirring phosphorous on the lake floor back into the water, where it fertilizes algae and weeds. Their own excretions further foul the water. Sorensen considers them the most damaging aquatic species in Minnesota.

"It is unlikely that we can do much to improve the water quality in most of our lakes until we control them," he said.

He chose to do his research on the three west suburban lakes -- Lake Riley, Lake Susan and Rice Marsh Lake -- because they are home to thousands of carp. The bottom-feeding fish make up half to two thirds of the fish in the lakes. Some of them are 2 to 4 feet long and as big as 18 inches in girth. Some are 50 years old

Years of experience

During their first two summers, Sorensen and his research team discovered something surprising and significant: Although some of the fish are older than 50, young fish are scarce.

The age of the carp can be determined by slicing open their ear bones to count their growth rings. It's like counting the rings on a tree trunk. Judging by a sampling of the age of the fish in the lake, it's been roughly 10 years since a baby carp grew from egg to adulthood -- even though each female fish produces more than 1 million eggs a year.

Why the eggs grow into carp in some years and not others, Sorensen's team does not yet know. But one theory, according to his research assistant, Prezmyslaw Bajer, is that in most years other fish eat the carp minnows, but that the natural predatory chain is interrupted when an especially harsh winter kills off all the fish in the lakes. Then carp come back by migrating from other lakes and multiply much faster than the game fish -- resulting in an over-population of carp.

The fact that in many years young carp do not mature raises hope that if the older fish are removed, they may not be replaced by younger fish, Sorensen said.

The biologists will work to suppress young fish, remove adults, and prevent adult fish from coming from other lakes and laying more eggs.

In his study of sea lampreys, Sorensen and his team identified and synthesized a chemical signal, known as a pheromone, that can be used to trick the lampreys into traps. The lampreys prey on lake trout, whitefish and other fish.

Pheromones also will figure into the carp study, as Sorensen looks for a chemical signal that would lure females into a single locale where they can be removed from the lake.

Plenty of support

Sorensen's work is getting financial support from many corners. He has a $550,000 grant from the state's Environment and Natural Resources Trust Fund, which gets money from the state lottery, and other funding from the Department of Natural Resources, the government of Australia -- where carp is considered a national problem -- and residents who live around the lakes he is studying.

On Lake Riley, the water quality seems to get a little worse every year, said resident David Florenzano, who lives on the lake with his wife, Anne.

The Lake Riley Improvement Association kicked in $2,000 to support the study because residents want to do what they can to help clean up the water, Florenzano said.

"We think it's a world-class study, and we feel very fortunate to have these folks doing this world-class study on our lake."

The west-suburban Riley Purgatory Bluff Creek Watershed District has promised to provide $2.7 million for the project from 2008 through 2017.

The significant investment reflects the district's belief in the importance of the project to the west suburban lakes and to the state, said board Vice Chair Ken Wencl of Chanhassen. "This has never been done before and it's a very important thing."

Carp do so much damage that until they are under control, there is no way to improve the water quality, reduce the weeds and stop soil erosion, Wencl said.

No one expects the carp to disappear completely, said Watershed District coordinator Paul Haik. "You will never eliminate the carp. The question is how can you manage the carp at a level that will allow fishing, boating and wakeboarding."

Within three years, district officials expect to start seeing clearer water, a greater percentage of game fish and positive changes in plant life.

By the end of the study, Sorensen hopes to leave the lakes with low carp numbers and be able to hand the Watershed District a manual for keeping them that way.

"I think we are smarter than carp, and I think we can figure this out," Sorensen said.

[Carp-fisher]

Wow! Excellent! I talked to my brother about it, and this Professor Sorensen happens to be his academic advisor. While I enjoy catching and bowhunting carp, I also support their removal from all U.S. waters. I fish Lake Riley, but Lake Susan is so impaired by carp activity that I don't even bother. Hopefully this team will reduce the carp populations in these bodies of water...

[lucy1205]

Why don't you guys go to the Mn river. Night crawlers, Corn, It all works. Theres billions of carp there. The Mn river backwaters fill up with spawning carp in the spring. You can catch hundreds of them. Shoot em, Snag em. Man theres this creek in Eden Prarie that was full of em. I went there during high water this fall and brought my muskie rod with 80lbs test and caught about 45 in two hours.