Puppy food

[311Hemi]

Corn does provide an energy source since it is a carbohydrate, the same as rice, wheat, barley, etc. Some carbohydrates are good for dogs as it gives them some quick energy but its up to you to decide what value you put on quickly produced energy.

By all means do your homework and select what you think is best for your dog. If you put a high value on corn thats fine. Most people put a low value on corn and avoid it but to each their own.

[tybo]

I use Nutrisource for my puppy and adult dog.

[zumbromuskie]

Thanks for your thoughts. I guess what I'm trying to say is I would rather feed my dog "chicken" than "chicke meal". I will argue that "Chicken meal" is less valuable to a dog because it has been rendered, which means it was extracted from animal parts by melting and then boiled. The boiling process separates fat, removes water and kills bacteria, viruses and parasites, but the high temperatures destroy enzymes, proteins and other nutrients.

Now meat byproducts are a whole different story and much worse in my opinion because we are talking about the parts of an animal left over after all parts fit for human consumption are taken away. This leaves heads, blood, ligaments, lungs, intestines, spleens, feet, bones and other parts. This also includes the "4D" animals (dead, dying, diseased, disabled), which are completely legal to use in pet foods. Notice the list does not include the word "meat".

From my perspective, "Meat" is more nutritious and better for your dog than "Meat Meal" or byproducts.

[311Hemi]

No objections to your thoughts on meat byproducts.

Again, you said if the food contains a meal you should reconsider.....I don't agree with that statement and would not recommend that to others either. I would assume you are aware of the differences in protein levels between the two in the finished goods.....that chicken meal will contribute more animal based protein that just plain chicken? I believe this also help with proper amino acid levels if I remember correctly.

I guess the question is where do you put the "value" in the meat source? I put the value in the protein levels.

[zumbromuskie]

If we're talking only about Protein, we should be clear that the protein level listed on the bag is not a listing of % digestible protein, just a listing of % protein. Egg has the highest biological value and sets the standard. Egg has a biological value of 100. Fish meal and milk are close behind with a value of 92. Beef is around 78 and soybean meal is 67. Meat and bone meal and wheat are around 50 and corn is 45. Things like hair and feathers would be very high in protein but would be down at the bottom of the list for biological value.

By reading the ingredients and noting the order they appear you can determine the digestibility. If the first ingredient is chicken or lamb we can assume it is a good quality protein source. Chicken by-product or other meat by-products are not as good but acceptable; meat and bone meal are poorer yet. You don't want to see grains listed near the top of the ingredients because that protein is not as digestible and it merely contributes toward the carbohydrate load.

Here are the ingredients for the food I use (you be the judge):

Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, oatmeal, millet, white rice, ocean fish meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, tomato pomace, duck, salmon, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, dried chicory root, chondroitin sulfate, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, yucca schidigera extract, L-Carnitine, dried fermentation products of Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

[gr8icefishinmind]

So what is the food that you use?

[LABS4ME]

I'm begining to wonder how dogs have not become extinct with the food(s) they've been given for the past couple millenia of domestication!

I usually stay out of these posts as it becomes a Ford vs. Chevy thing... and according to many of the posts I've read, dogs should've withered off the vine and vanished from the face of the earth... I remember feeding our dogs growing up Houlies... I bet it didn't have meat in the first 3 ingredients... but they did fine.

With that said:

I do believe we should feed a good quality food, but believe the food companies have taken the pet food industry to new extremes! I believe to an extent, they have 'hood winked' the common populace. Not arguing the fact that Brand Food A is light years ahead of Brand Food B in it's make-up and ingredients, but does it really equate to better performance or longevity of life? Or does it help the manufacturere garner larger profit margins? I think as a whole, Americans now put their dogs on par with children or other family members and spend according to that sentiment. I myself have never reached that plateau. I LOVE my dogs and do my best to give them a good life. I relish every opportunity spent with them and cry like a baby when they leave me... BUUUUUT they are still an animal and I do not hold them to the same esteem as my family. I got caught up in the whirlwind of 'premium' dog food a few years back and it dawned on me as I was picking up a bag of Brand X how much it had gone up in price in the 2 years I fed it and now was shrinking the bag size down in lieu of another price increase.... I fed another 'high' end food for a year prior to that and same thing, the price escalated almost each time I bought a bag of food!

It then dawned on me that I fed Diamond Green bag throughout the entire time I ran dogs in trials and tests. I also fed 50-50 mix green bag / black bag during the hunting season and my dogs did excellent in regards to stamina, coat, and overall health. Since I had that epiphany, I've now switched back to Diamond Naturals and have not noted any difference in my dogs and it costs 50% less than the brand I previously fed. My dogs generally live to a ripe old age and hunt well past the 10 year mark and a few even at the 12 year mark... I know genetics plays a huge role in that, but the food is the fuel and it keeps the trains on the tracks and until I feel I need to make a change, I will keep stoking the fires with this food as it works well for them and helps in keeping my budget.

Good Luck!

Ken

[311Hemi]

If we're talking only about Protein, we should be clear that the protein level listed on the bag is not a listing of % digestible protein, just a listing of % protein. Egg has the highest biological value and sets the standard. Egg has a biological value of 100. Fish meal and milk are close behind with a value of 92. Beef is around 78 and soybean meal is 67. Meat and bone meal and wheat are around 50 and corn is 45. Things like hair and feathers would be very high in protein but would be down at the bottom of the list for biological value.