450 ES starting problem

[Big Sky]

Thanks for this post. I have a 2000 Rancher ES. The choke also goes back in by itself. I called the dealer and the guy gave me some expensive reason as to why in the tune of $200. Needless to say I was p'd off. This ATV has less than 300 miles on it and I bought it for the fact it was supposed to be a reliable machine. It is primarily used for icefishing which comes with cold weather. I'm glad I didn't bring it in yet as I didn't have time. Leaving shortly for northern WI for a 5-day ice fishing trip and will try these tips. Just as a side note there is another ATV site that I have visted before called www.atvconnection.com that also may be of help. I'm not affiliated with them so I hope I can post this. Either way thanks gentleman.

[sledhead]

To Adjust valves.

Tools you Need =

10 mm wrench
10 mm socket and ratchet
Long entension I perfer to use 1/4in drive
needle nose pliers
18mm deep socket to remove spark plug.
flat blade screwdriver
phillips screw driver
.006 thousands feeler guage

remove the four 6mm bolts on either side of tank schroud. 2 on each side. then remove the 4 push rivets on the schroud. 2 in front of gas cap under handle bars. and then the 2 either side on down under right sidecover next to brake cable. one on the left side there is a washer behind it. dont loose it. remove the gas cap and pull the schroud off should be in one piece. next remove the 2 6mm bolts infront of fuel tank and remove the 2 rubber bands on the rear of the tank. shut off the fuel, lift the tank slightly in the rear reach in with needle nose pliers and remove the fuel line from the petcock. remove tank and set aside. Next remove the push rivets securing the white shield should be 3 of them one is hidden under the wiring harness. one removed you should now see the valve cover. remove your spark plug and the 4 6mm bolts holding the valve cover on. Next now it gets tricky. use the phillips screw driver and the recoil rope to bring motor to top dead center. This is done by putting the driver in the spark plug hole and slowly turn the motor buy hand with pull rope. BE VERY CAREFUL. You will feel the piston level off. If you go past a little not a problem. pinch the lifters with your thumb and index finger and wiggle the lifter arm you should have play in both. Next put the feeler guage inbetween the tappet adjuster and the valve. there should be resistance there. enough so that the feeler barley fits in there. if not loosen the 10 mm lock nut and turn the adjuster in with the flat blade adjuster. then relock the nut but hold the adjuster with the screwdriver then recheck the resistance. Do the same for both intake and exhaust. they are both .006 thou. clean the matting surface of the head and valve cover dry the gasket. You don't need to put sealer on it but I recommend copper coat and nothing else. make sure the O-ring on head is there. If not look in valve cover they stick to it most time. And thats it reassemble machine.

This is just a suggestion I will Not be held responsible ok. cool. Mint.

Good luck. If you don't feel confident take it in and have it done.

[oscar]

Should the engine be warm or cold when adjusting? From your post It sounds like I can reuse the old gasket without a problem as long as I use a gasket compound, correct? How many miles would you estimate most Honda wheelers go before you find a need for adjustment? Sorry for all the questions. I've been waitng for someone to comment on my last post. It should have read peace of mind, not piece. Maybe I'm the only one that caught it, and thought it was funny.

[CHOPPERTHEDOG]

The "put the srewdriver down the spark plug hole" trick is NOT I REPEAT -NOT- how you find top dead center when setting your valves. Your best bet would be to find yourself a service manual. I think you can pick up a Haynes manual at FleetFarm for around $20. They are usually pretty well illustrated and the step-by-step procedures are generally pretty easy to follow, of course the factory service manual is usually better but can cost 3X as much. Also, replace the gaskets, they are cheap. Do not use silicone or any sealer unless the service manual guides you in that direction.

[oscar]

Thanks for the info Chopper. I was thinking about getting a repair manual a while ago, but figured Honda would want a fortune for it. I didn't know that FleetFarm had manuals for four wheelers. I'm sure that would be $20 well spent.

[sledhead]

Ok it is not the best way, But when you do it day in and day out It helps because the timing marks on the fly wheel are not always right. I REPEAT NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. LOL

I'm sorry you should go by the timing marks, I do use a dial indicator, but the driver will work call it a feel indicator. let me see you get that recoil off and stick your head up though that 450 and read FT through a 14 mm hole in the timing cover ehh.
Or you could have the exhaust valve compressed and the intake not that will give you the clearance. and vise versa.
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ride safe, wear a helmut, stupid hurts

If you get'em serviced, wash'em first.

[This message has been edited by sledhead (edited 01-05-2004).]

[CHOPPERTHEDOG]

When the timing marks are not right what do you do to remedy the situation. Isn't the flywheel keyed to the crank? Do you have to replace the flywheel with one that has the T-marks in the proper location? Have you found the cam timing to be off on the vehicles with faulty flywheels?

What models have you noted this condition on and have you notified the manufacturer of this failure? What was the manufacturers response?

[sledhead]

Most flywheels are good, but the mark may be slightly off, finding top dead center off the piston is more important. would you not agree. It will give you a beter clearance. And no the manufacturer is not going to change nothing because one guy says heh your mark are a little off.

------------------
ride safe, wear a helmut, stupid hurts

If you get'em serviced, wash'em first.

[CHOPPERTHEDOG]

I guess that I wouldn't agree. Camshaft position is just as important as TDC as it is the valves that are being adjusted. Use the timing marks.

[sledhead]

Ok this is going to be my last post for this, I put the piston at top dead center, If I don't have play on the tappet arms I rotate it again, Have you ever had a 450 valve cover off? I have on about 300 or so, have never had a problem adjusting the valves using a dial indicator using top dead on the piston. IF THE PISTON IS AT TOP DEAD CENTER, THE TIMING MARK SHOULD SHOW "T". WITH VALVE TAPPET CLEARANCE. I DON'T NEED THE HASSLE OF PULLING A RECOIL OFF A MOTOR LIKE THAT WHEN IT IS ON THE BACK OF THE MOTOR. US TECHNICONS DON'T GET PAID BY THE HOUR. SO THATS IT, ALL I GOT FOR YOU. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT TUFF. I TIRED OF TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU.

[Dave]

Lighten up, don't argue.

[spearchucker]

Could it be that the filter is over oiled. I have seen this. It gums the carb up and makes it harder to pass air through the filter.

[CHOPPERTHEDOG]

My apologies Dave, and all else, I don't mean to get things in an uproar. I just want people to get good solid info so they have less chance of messing up their toys when trying at home maintenance.

[Dave]

Chopper, I understand. I know the feeling when someone doesn't take my word for it. Just trying to calm the thread down.

It's great information by the way.

[oscar]

Oops, now look what I started.

[CHOPPERTHEDOG]

Had any luck with anything yet Oscar?

[sledhead]

I apologize also, sometimes I get carried away. Chopper especially to you. We all go about doing maintainance in different ways. See ya'll out on the trails.

------------------
ride safe, wear a helmut, stupid hurts

If you get'em serviced, wash'em first.

[oscar]

I haven't really had much luck with anything. I recleaned the air filter and used different oil on it. I went to a lighter engine oil, and tryed a different battery. It seems like it turns over a little faster now but still doesn't want to start when it gets really cold. I've been wondering if maybe the coil is bad. When I first got the machine it didn't run very well so I did a little checking and found that someone forgot to tighten the spark plug on it. I dont know how long it was used with the spark plug loose, but after tightening the plug it seemed to run fine all summer. I'm not sure if that could have damaged the coil or not, any thoughts? I've been looking for information on how to test the coil but have not located it yet. I took it out fishing yesterday and it started and ran great, but it wasn't very cold out.

[sledhead]

I just looked at the service manual and there is no ohms reading for the ignition coil. Only peak voltage. You would a peak voltage reading meter in order to do this. The spec is 100volts minimum on the primary. attach negative terminal to the black/yellow wire and positive to body groung turn the ignition switch to on and turn motor over.

------------------
ride safe, wear a helmut, stupid hurts

If you get'em serviced, wash'em first.