Training Exercise Recommendations

[Scott M]

The winter is over and I'm starting year #2 with my black lab Bailey. I was pleased with her progression last year and looking forward to this year. She's always maintained interest and given everything her best shot, I'm sure her shortcomings are the result of my improper training or discipline.

1) For both upland and waterfowl, I would like her to better listen to my come call. I realize that's a basic command, but I'm caught in no man's land. I say that because I don't plan to purchase an e-collar, but it would be nice to reinforce "come" while training in this manner. We let her run around for most of the winter and don't call her to us too much, which is probably how we got here. Is this going to be a check-line exercise without an e-collar?

2) I for sure want to work on blind retrieves.We spent tons of time doing dummy training and the occasional blind retrieve, but not nearly enough time. She saw where too many dummies landed, and based on how I hunt (blinded up with visibility really only available at the top of the blind) it's not realistic for her to see retrieves. We did some lines last year, would my best bet to go heavy on those with a second person hiding a dummy? She wasn't the best at listening to me, I think we gravitated towards easier exercises so we could build confidence in the basics and didn't do enough blind retrieves. Too often I had to rely on my bag of stones, throwing them near dead ducks for her to mark the spot.

3) Like all young dogs, I want her to do a better job of sitting still in the boat. I actually felt she got worse as the year went along...opening day she stayed still for the most part, but more often than not, she heard gunshots and wanted to go for a swim. Here is where I need some help. What training exercise is good for culling this problem? I see this with a lot of dogs; the whole point of me getting a dog was to stay in the boat and not have to chase birds and besides, if I have to keep one eye or hand on her, that's one eye or hand that should be on ducks and following with my gun...Instead I'm yelling at her to come back on misses and occasionally going for a walk to chase her down.

Those issues paint the picture of a dog that doesn't listen, but she really isn't that bad. She picked up pheasants, ducks, grouse, and geese her first year with admirable enthusiasm. We just have some things to work on, like any good dog has. We didn't get a lot of waterfowl work since the hunting in Minnesota was so poor, but she brought a few birds to hand. The upland hunting was really good because I was able to work her with a couple well trained Viszlas. By the end of the year she really got her nose down and even managed to flush a couple birds she found on her own that, naturally, I wasn't ready for nor was I paying attention to the dog.

I'm looking forward to doing some work with her again. We had a lot of fun last year and have some trips to look forward to this fall. Thanks in advance for any feedback, suggestions, advice, or training tips.

[Rick]

For blind retrieves just start by walking with her at heel and dropping a dummy where she knows you dropped it. Walk 50 yds away with her at heel and turn towards the dummy. Give her a line and then send her.

After she's doing fine with that go to two dummies in the same line.

Eventually drop a dummy where she doesn't see you drop it and walk a short distance away (5 yds) and give her a line. If she does fine then get progressively longer distance an very small increments. If not just go back to step two or make the distance shorter.

Once she does a blind retrieve or line to pile then just keep getting further and further away. Don't increase the distance too fast. Success and repetition is key (in short doses)

I also use three dummies for directional hand signal retriever training which you wll need to do as well. I'm sure someone else will spell that one out.

As for the come command use positive re-inforcement. Treats work well here at first. Repetition is key. The come command should always be obeyed. It's your most important training tool.

[Todd Caswell]

My suggestion is invest in and start following a proven training program, by the sounds of your explanation you have gone at this with no plan up to this point. My point being you enjoy working with your dog, you would like to see he/her more advanced this comming hunting season, so why not do it right?

For the money I recomend picking up "Fowldawgs1 " With Rick Stawski of Fineline retrievers Either start from the begining or pick up where you feel your dog is at. This will give you a solid foundation to build on. You both will learn from this video.

You listed what most people would like to see there retriever doing in the field, but it's all a step by step process to get to that point,

Recall- Here, come it goes back to basic OB

Blinds- Step by step process that leads up to running cold blind

Sitting still in the boat- Basic OB Sit means Sit untill told other wise.

Many great dogs have been trained without and E-collar and it can be done but I have to ask why don't you want to use a collar? Just wondering.

another recomendation is to join a retriever club if you have access to one.

[311Hemi]

My suggestion is invest in and start following a proven training program, by the sounds of your explanation you have gone at this with no plan up to this point. My point being you enjoy working with your dog, you would like to see he/her more advanced this comming hunting season, so why not do it right?

I agree with the suggestion of investing in a good training program and following it. Based on what you want it will be the easiest way to get there. You don't just train for the three things you have listed there.....there is a sequence of steps to get there starting with basic OB.

I would also ask why no e-collar? While it obviously can and is done....it will be more work or will take longer to get to where you are saying you want to be. Think if it this way, to achieve your #1 goal of wanting the dog to respond to the "come" you will not want to give the come command without being able to reinforce the command. This will mean a check cord on the dog at all time you plan on using the command. Check cord not in your hand.....do not give the command because you can't reinforce it if the dog does not come. You will need to get this solid.....including distractions that you may run into where the dog may be a ways from you. When used properly the e-collar gives you a much extended hand to reinforce commands without the hassle of a long cord getting tangled on things.

I would recommend Evan Grahams Smart Fetch. He will also be putting on a training seminar April 16-17th at TNT kennels that would be worth attending.

[Scott M]

Thanks for all the responses. I didn't take the time to type out last year's training program, so my apologies if anyone got the idea I was working with no plan. I went with Wolters' Gun Dog and Jason Smith's Dog Training (for the Hunting Retriever) as my resources, my plan if you will. I also don't want to give the impression that I only want to work on those 3 areas; I see them as the three most frustrating things with my dog right now (maybe I just had to get it off my chest!) and I do see the connection with basic obedience. Any exercises I put to work are variations on the theme of obedience or accessories to more obedience training, IMO.

As far as the e-collar, I promised my wife I wouldn't use an e-collar on the first dog we owned. I'm slowly starting to think that maybe I just don't want to use the e-collar during the first year of dog ownership! I would think the collar would be a more efficient way of doing business at this point without the hassle of check cords. My e-collar fears of ruining a dog are past and she's at the point where reinforcing a command would be a nice addition. e.g. she knows she's doing wrong and we can correct the behavior...kind of like the legal burden of proving intent.

Thanks Rick, Todd, and 311 for taking the time to give your $0.02. I'm still listening. I hope this adds some minor background details and intentions. If there are some specific techniques or exercises to try that have worked, I'd love to hear them. Everyone has their own training program, technique, or plan, not all are created equally, but at this point, not to put too fine a point on it, I'm not really interested in changing mine, I'm interested in some more exercises that will help me and the dog with her continuing obedience and field needs.

[Todd Caswell]

I know there have been some fine retrievers trained with the wolters books but they are sooo outdated. There are tons of "exercises" but I would call each of them a step in the program ( and it could be any program).

[WalleyeDrifter]

I'm kind of at where da chise is at. I've got a 10 month old lab. I have'nt used my e-collar yet but am going start conditioning in the next month. I hunted my pup last fall for grouse and pheasants. She was able to get on a lot of wild birds. The advise I got was to let her get excited about birds and make sure she got out from underfoot. She gets very enthusiastic about birds at this point. My plan was to re-inforce the come command with the collar at 10-12 months of age. I'd like to do it without the collar but I don't think I've got enough experience as a trainer to get her solid on this important command. We work on it everyday and she comes with the check cord on almost perfectly. We've advanced to the point where the 50ft check cord is on her but I don't have hold of it.