LOST

[PierBridge]

I'm not quite ready to swing over to the Whitmore camp ...Yet!

I know Ben is a piece of work but when they killed Bens daughter that Teed me off!...

I wonder if Ben will ever get to Whitmores Daughter and do as promised!

[McGurk]

Ben is doing the same thing to us as the viewing audience as he does to everyone he meets; manipulating us to see the justification for his actions, making it OK for us think that his ends justify his means. The 2/25 episode showed exactly how self-motivated all of his actions are, and steered us back into hating him. This episode cements the fact that Ben is in it for Ben and Ben only. Go back and think about all of Ben's "good deeds" and look at how he ended up benefitting. I think you'll see what I mean. Every selfless act by Ben ended up benefitting him in the long run.

I am starting to think that Widmore may just be in the right after all. As far as "killing Ben's daughter," remember that Ben kidnapped his "daughter" from Danielle in the first place as a baby, raising her as his own. Widmore's grand cover-up (the plane and bodies on the ocean floor) was done to hide the island. Keamy's men from the freighter kidnapping Ben and killing off the 815 survivors was done to protect the island. Ever since Widmore was introduced as one of the others in the past in Jughead (the 3rd episode this season) I've had a theory that Ben had him exiled and took over leadership of the others, and that was stated by Widmore on 2/25. Widmore was in line to lead, he had his potential wife Ellie/Eloise there, and all was well until Ben showed up with the Dharma initiative.

[waxworm]

Very well put! But then I guess the question is whether Widmore is doing the same thing to Locke (to get back in power) that Ben did to Widmore. Intense little cycle. Also, anyone have an opinion as to why the show brought Desmond to LA at the same time all of this was going on and not have him come back to the island with the rest of them? Didn't he go there to help Farraday make the flashes stop by meeting Eloise?

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Wow, this is getting intense. Growing up friday nights was Dukes of Hazzard and incredible hulk, then I enjoyed more family time and get to stay up later and watch Dallas with my mom. That show got me hooked, anyways Ben is like J.R. Ewing, always an evil man, sometimes have a moment of kindness but then you later on it was just an additonal scam.

I think for Desmond is like me & quint were thinking, while he was en route to eloise, Ben killed Penny, which will make Desmond have to go back to seek revenge on Ben.

[McGurk]

Floyd, I just remembered: Last Weds' Lost was actually about 1:10 long, and you probably missed the part that ran after 9:00. I lucked out and looked on the Satellite schedule and saw that it ran long, and was able to catch it. You didn't miss a whole lot, I don't think.

Desmond was on the island well before 815 crashed, and I understand that only the 815 passengers that were alive (Aaron wasn't born yet) had to come back to the island (Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sun, Sayid). Walt is the odd man out. Frank and Ben are just hitching a ride along with the Oc6(5) on Ajira 316, and crashed on the island unlike the Oc6 who were "flashed" there. Now we need to find out where Sun and Sayid ended up.

As far as Desmond returning, he promised his wife Penny Widmore that he'd never return. If Ben kills/killed her, though, all bets are off. Desmond sailed to the island before, and I think he'll sail there again. The question is: will he bring his son Charlie there, or leave him with Charles Widmore(grandfather) or Eloise Hawking (potential grandmother)?

Newest Thought: I think Walt is going to have a large part in the near future. He is the one character that had special unexplained phenomena before the island, and has lingered in the background for too many chance appearances.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

I can't believe I missed the whole ajira connection there, so that was a flash forward type of thing in the whole island time warp.......

On Ben & Desmond & Charlie makes you wonder, is Ben evil enough to have killed both Penny and the baby?

I agree with you on Walt, he is going to have some sort of significance here soon. Especially if Michael didn't survive the blast on the boat

[McGurk]

Being Ben lost his "daughter" Alex, I don't think he'd kill Charlie, but then again...

Oh yeah, the one thing you did miss in the last 10 minutes is that Ben is indeed on the island, but injured due to the plane crash along with the remainder of the passengers and a healthy and living Locke. They haven't stated the time period that the 316 plane crash is, but I think it is in 2008. The Ajira water bottle found on shore at the old beach camp site from a previous episode would place it on the island in 2008 or after, maybe in real time with no time lost at all like the last plane crash.

he Oc6, on the other hand, seem to to have "flashed" to the island in the 70's, due to Jin driving up in the Dharma van.

[McGurk]

Note: the theory that Penny was in Desmond's sailboat in the harbor in California is started to erode: Des/Penny/Charlie were at Oxford in Great Britain 3 days before Desmond was in California seeing Eloise Hawking at the Lapmpost station. I have a hard time believing that they could sail that distance in 3 days, as they would have to get from the west coast of Europe to the west coast of the US.

Penny does have significant resources at her disposal, but they seem to like to use their sailboat to get around. Charles Widmore said to Desmond "Where ever you've been hiding; go back" meaning that Des/Penny/Charlie have been "off the radar" for some time. I think Desmond flew from Great Britian to California, with or without Penny/Charlie. Ben calling from the docks has little significance, yet.

This doesn't mean that Ben hasn't killed her, but I cannot believe that their sailboat is docked in the harbor off of California. The harbor Ben called from does not have to be off the coast of California; it could be the East coast of the US. It is still quite a feat to sail from Europe to the east coast in 3 days, and allowing for Desmond to fly across the country in that same timeframe.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Wow man, all I can to that is farewell and adeiu ye fair spanish ladies.

I get your logic and maybe I am wrong, but I thought that when Desmond said he was going to LA, after telling penny that eloise was dead and she said he was lying, that she said she was going with him. I'm still going with Ben killed her just because I can't think of anyone else who he would speak as an old friend.

Now on a 2nd thought, if Widmore was once a leader, then Ben, and now apparently Locke, this Richard Alpert and the whole never aging thing, what is his angle?

Gotta love the show

[mrklean]

you guys are really looking into this, i just watch and try to understand, takes me awhile but i get it after awhile

[pinkfloyd4ever]

I hear ya dwight, the whole new survivors of flight 316 or whatever I totally missed that.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Alright quint I am up to speed here, you see it? Overall it wasn't an edge of the seat show like previous weeks, but now we know where everyone "is" so to speak.

Still need to find out what got everyone to get on the plane though, stinks that we have to wait 2 weeks.

[McGurk]

A very entertaining episode, as is with most Sawyer-centric episodes.

Spoiler:

Good to learn a bit more about the Dharma/"Hostiles" relationship. Always happy to see Richard in any episode. I think Daniel is fading away, and will need something earth-shattering to snap him back (maybe his talk with a young Charlotte?). I like how every one respects and fears "LaFleur" and how he has become a pretty large part of camp, even getting Miles to respect him.

Now we have not only a Jack/Kate/Sawyer love triangle, but there is the newly developed "Love Square." I don't think even Dr. Phil could sort that out if he was in the Dharma Init.!

[mrklean]

not a nail biting one but very interesting, are locke and ben in the 70s to??? Or are they in normal time with the others from the second plane?

[pinkfloyd4ever]

my thought would be that the island and everyone on it is now stuck in 1974. Sawyer's talk with Richard was cool, my memory is always short, but this would be there first face to face contact?

At first I thought the child that was born was going to be Ben, but that clearly could not work out.

Godspeed, his name has been thrown around before hasn't it? I'll use the word original here, was he the original in the 108 minute chamber then along came Desmond and Godspeed just ran off? Then Desmond took over?

[McGurk]

Klean: I think the Oc6(Jack/Kate/Sun/Hurley/Sayid), the Island 5 (Sawyer/Jin/Miles/Daniel/Juliet), the Original Dharma Init., and the Hostiles(now the Others) are all back in roughly the 1970's. Most all of last night's episode was at that 3-year back and forth in the 70's. Locke and Ben, and the rest of Ajira 316 are in roughly 2008. So there is a 30 year time period between the 2 groups, even though they are all on the same island.

Floyd: That talk was pretty cool with Richard and Sawyer. It would be Richard's first time talking to Sawyer, but I think Sawyer has talked to the 2005 version of Richard. Sawyer is the Man!!!

My wife said the same thing about the child being born turning out to be Ben, but I had to remind her that Ben arrived on the island with his father Roger at the request of Horace Goodspeed.

Goodspeed has been shown before; but not in the Swan station. His big scene was in a dream of Locke's, with Locke stumbling across him chopping down trees by hand and "building a place for him and the missus." The weird thing was that happened in season 2 or 3, and was the first glimpse into the skipping-time/nosebleed concept. And in fact that place he was building became the cabin that Jacob has been seen in.

I thought that there was an odd parallel last night. Ben wanted to be with Juliet so badly that he had the man she was having an affair with, Goodwin (someone already married) exiled and subsequently killed. Goodspeed obviously had a thing for Amy, who was at the time married to Paul. Paul was killed by the Others, and Amy had a bag put over her head before Sawyer and Juliet came to save the day. Amy and Goodspeed ended up together, apparently fathering her child, but she was still holding onto Paul.

Here's my thought: did Goodspeed ask Richard and the Hostiles (Others) to kill Paul, but allow Amy to leave? Just because they killed Paul, that doesn't meant that they would have indeed killed her. They put a bag over her head, but were interrupted but Sawyer and Juliet, and then killed themselves. Richard and Goodspeed have a relationship, to the extent that there was a truce in effect between the 2 groups. Goodspeed was pretty torn up about something (drunken dynamite-ing!) and it seems it is because she is still holding onto Paul, even after he had been eliminated.

Next thought: The 4 main freighter people(Naomi/Daniel/Charlotte/Miles) that arrived on the island were in fact all born on the island, but left at young ages. Charlotte has already been confirmed to hve been born on the island. Miles could be Marvin Candle's son. Daniel is the son of Charles Widmore (on the island before Ben took control of the Others) and Eloise Hawking (presumably the same), and Naomi could just as easily have been born there. The ages all work, and there are relatively strong ties to the island for all of them.

[mrklean]

dude how do you know and remember all of this i didnt know daniel was the son of widmore who was miles again i dont remember all the names

[McGurk]

My cheat sheet:

Lostpedia

Daniel has not been confirmed to be Widmore's son, but I have a sneaking suspicion that is the case. Miles is the pessimistic asian fellow that Sawyer took a drive with last night in the Dharma jeep.

I think I may be getting alittle too into this show, re-reading my previous post. I need to get on the ice!

[mrklean]

ok yea i knew that i just dont remember all the names to many

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Ya, Quint is the man with LOST 4-1-1. Hate to have to wait an extra week until it is on again.

[McGurk]

Spring Break's over; time to get serious again. Next episode's name: Namaste. anagram for Me Satan??? or Tan Seam??? or Sam Nate???

[pinkfloyd4ever]

yes, 2 weeks is hard to wait between shows, although I do like the repeat episodes with the hints and info on the bottom helps me along. Seems like any sort of name thing on the show is just like it say doesn't it? Perhaps a google of the name later today for me and see what I can find

[McGurk]

It's actually a form of well-wishing in a different language. As in Hello or Take care or Best Wishes. You hear it used in the Dharma Station videos spoken by Marvin Candle. Perhaps it means we are going delve into the Dharma Init some more now that Sawyer and friends are there with the Oc6 newly arrived.

One thing I do miss about the old format; in each episode we had a main story, with a single or small group of characters that would be concentrated on, both in real time and in flashbacks. It really fleshed out a character, and helped explain their actions in realtime due to their past. With the flashforwards, we could see their realtime actions reflected in the future. Now, all we have are people and time, moving around all willy-nilly without much structure at all, including a large amount of characters and moving along at a blistering (at least by LOST standards) speed.

Oh well, I complained about it moving too slowly and they fixed it. Now I suppose I can't complain about them moving too quickly!

[pinkfloyd4ever]

well we will know in 33 hours

[MedicineMan]