When does a tub turn into a shelter?

[Ragnar]

Here is my question,
When does my folded up Otter shelter on my Otter Tub turn into a shelter? Is it a shelter automatically once removed from my vehicle? Does it matter whether I flip it up and over to the ice? What if I only use it as a wind break and open it up half way?

Let'er rip!

[RogersResort]

I can only speak from my experience, I once was caught on the lake with out a current tag and the warden told me as long as I was not fishing out of it I did not need a tag on it. I would think that if you were not fishing in it but just sitting on it that would hold true. I think it depends some on the Conservation Officer at the time.

[The Chemist]

I believe that once you pull it up so that it is being used as a wind break it becomes a "house".

[Gus]

I once heard the three side rule. As long as it has three sides it is considered a house. This is to include wind break style structures. Sorry, but I can't point to hard evidence though. Personally I wouldn't want to try to aruge out any situation with a CO.

[big_fish_guy]

I built up the wet snow into a half dome this weekend to use as a wind block. Do I need a license for that? </sarcasm>

this is a dump law, should be for a shelter that consists of four walls and a ceiling, meant for overnight/perminant use.

[Melon]

So if I'm sitting in my vehicle fishing out the window, do I need a shelter tag? I've never done this, but the topic got me thinking about it.

[FISHOTTER]

MELON,
I approached this issue with members of the MDNR a couple years ago, I left our phone conversation more frustrated than I was when I started. I am from WI, and the thought of registering a "portable" ice shelter blew me away. It didn't seem to be very reasoable, especially after the coin we spend to make such a trip happen. I felt it was just another way the DNR could financially exploit the sportsman. During my conversation with a MDNR staffer, it became apparent they weren't interested in what I had to say. I had posed questions similar to yourS; is sitting in a shelter w/o actually fishing(we used them as warming shelters) the same? What about sitting in your vehicle<--they answered the latter by stating your vehicle is already registered(regardless of residency) so you were exempt. WHAAAT? In other words, I am more confused today than I was two years ago. Someone please enlighten me...

FISHOTTER <"}}^ ><

[BUCKNAKED]

Just another way for this state to suck some more money out of you. You pay $8.50 for a trout stamp, and for two dollars more they'll send you the stamp [PoorWordUsage]? We just have to buck up, we have a lot of new refugees we need to pay for.

[walleyeking]

Buck, the trout stamp is now 10.00 bucks, plus the extra 2.00 if you want it sent to you..I went fishing on Saturday.. I think I paid 42 bucks or something like that for my lic. trout and shelter tag..

[2dalake]

I can understand the need to be able to identify who owns a house that is left unattended, but how do they justify requiring registration of portable shelters?

[upnorth]

Here we go again!! The old the DNR is screwing us on Licenses again. I think this comes up every year in one form or another.

I don't like the prices we pay for these licenses either, but we do choices here. If you think it is that bad don't buy one and stay home. Problem solved

[bturck]

Gentlemen; Saturday night I contributed to the DNR in the amount of $85.00 for not having a structure license on my clam. We ended up having a very nice conversation for about 1/2hr. She told me the DNR definition of a structure is 2 sides and a roof. Which led me to my next question to her, what about midnight. What do I do if I want to fish past 1200am. She told me collapse the house, fold up the canvas and sit on the chairs. At this point the sled and chairs no longer meet the definition of a structure, so I would presume if thats the only way it was ever used no structure license would be required.

One other interesting note: suppose you live on a lake and shovel and area for a skating rink. To keep the kids warm and toasty you pull a shelter of some kind onto the ice, again comprised of at least two sides and a rood, now you have a shelter that even though you would not drill holes in must have a structure license. Anyway she was very professional and very cordial, perhaps my $85 dollar donation had something to do with it. The price of crappie fillets increased slightly that night. By the way i bought a license today $12.50, you do the math. Bill

PS In case you might think I violate intentionally, not so. I showed her the past four years of structure licenses, just a brain dead moment.

[Steve Foss]

If you're in Minnesota and you're ice fishing out of the cab of your vehicle, it's technically a shelter, and you need a tag.

Yeah, I know. You have a driver's license, insurance and have paid registration for the vehicle, but you gotta shell out another $12-plus to fish out of it. Sheesh.

------------------
"Worry less, fish more."
Steve Foss
[email protected]

[Guest]

Ctfcatfish,checked with DNR on this and they said you only need the license if you are fishing out of a dark house,fish house or portable.They said you do not need one if you dont have holes in your floorboard and are fishing out of them.One thig I forgot to ask is in the new regs.it says you have to have a door on your portable that can be opened from the outside.What happens with one man portables that are flip over without a door?Good fishing Don

[Guest]

"PS In case you might think I violate intentionally, not so. I showed her the past four years of structure licenses, just a brain dead moment."

I can't believe the CO would issue you the ticket. I consider what she did to be an abuse of her discretion and totally an unethical thing for a CO to do. It is the equivalent of a Cop writing a ticket for someone who goes 1 to 4 miles an hour over the speed limit. On a matter like this a simple oversight should not be considered a violation of the law, even though it technically is. A warning was the correct enforcement measure when there is clear intent to buy the licence. That's total talk!

I think you should take the ticket to court along with the shelter lic. you purchased. I bet the judge will throw out the fine. And if you say it ain't worth your time, maybe a couple of two to three hours in court comes out to $28 bucks an hour or more. The CO is not the final arbiter in the matter of whether you deserved a fine or not. And she should be challenged on this.

When I bought my first fish trap, the very first time out I was checked for a shelter licence and I honest to goodness did not think the law applied to portables. No one at Gander suggested it when I bought the thing. The CO understood, gave me a warning and told me to purchase the licence that day or the next day, which I did.

An honest mistake should not be held against a person with no ill intent who's "crime" has no consequence whatsoever. Does it really matter if the state gets your $in March rather than in Nov.? I think not.

[Spunky]

If you want some good reading, go back in time and read the post "Its the Law" and see if that will help you out. My self I buy the license and have it with me in my portable no matter what, or how I am fishing. Then I don't have to worry.

------------------
Rip sum Lips

[bturck]

Basspastor: I understand exactly what you are saying. Perhaps the fact that I also didn't have my name, lic #, or DNR # on the house either prompted the ticket. Had the CO come off with a holier than thou attitude I probably would have felt a lot different about it. I really had two strikes againist me with two seperate violations. I sent the check yesterday, and chocked it up to a senior moment. But yes I agree it was obvious to her that I certainly wasn't trying to circumvent the law. I bought a license yesterday and I'm now a law abiding citizen for another year. Bill

[FISHOTTER]

bturck,
Thanks for accepting the responsibility, it's kinda refreshing when someone steps up to the plate when they have done wrong. I've been in LE for quite some time, and it's way to easy to defer responsibility when something doesn't go our way<--trust me on this one, I see it every day. The discretion basspastor was refering to, from my perspective, was "properly" exercised. I am guessing by the "senior moment" comment that you have participated in countless purchases of licenses over the years. Should you have been the 12 year old boy, fishing for the first time, a good dose of discretion would have gone a long way! It's good to know people like you still exist, take care and good luck fishing!!

FISHOTTER <"}}^ ><

[FISHOTTER]

bturck,
Thanks for accepting responsibility, it's kinda refreshing when someone steps up to the plate when they have done wrong. I've been in LE for quite some time, and it's way to easy to defer responsibility when something doesn't go our way<--trust me on this one, I see it every day. The discretion basspastor was refering to, from my perspective, was "properly" exercised. I am guessing by the "senior moment" comment that you have participated in countless purchases of licenses over the years. Should you have been the 12 year old boy, fishing for the first time, a good dose of discretion would have gone a long way! It's good to know people like you still exist, take care and good luck fishing!!

FISHOTTER <"}}^ ><

[bturck]

Fishhotter: I too spent some time in LE, 9 years and understood what she was doing. Ignorance is no excuse for the law. I told her that in 45 years of chasing game and fish this was the first ticket I had ever recieved. She countered with " you had a valid license, you were not over the limit, and did not possess out of season fish species, all of which in my book are intentional. Life goes on, I paid for the error and believe me I have a new license in my possession now. We also got into the crappies big time that night so all was not lost.

I suppose had she wanted to really push the issue she could have forced me to tear down on the spot, go to town, purchase a license and come back and set up again. Bill

[Guest]

Give it up BP....

You know the rules, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ALLOWED.

[This message has been edited by Tom Herman (edited 03-10-2004).]

[2dalake]

Basspastor,

Officers do make mistakes and the courts are there for you if that happens.

They work for you the citizen but they work for ALL the citizens. That means that when one makes a mistake it's their responsibility to make an ethical descision whether or not to enforce the ordinance. We hear this arguement often, "but this is the first time I've ever been pulled over". How do we know that's true? Believe or not there are people in the world who lie to the police. When an officer makes a descision they should consider the present circumstances, not assumptions about the subjects past or predictions of what they will do in the future.

It's true some are better than others at defining that line, and this CO made a judgement call that's hard to swallow, but don't assume they all act that way. It's my expirience that even when they do enforce an ordinance they still excercise some degree of discretion, such as not making him tear down.

You also have no standing to question what kind of officer Fishotter is based on a couple of posts in a fishing forum.

If you have been wrongly ticketed in the past then start a new thread on the political page, describe what happened and find out what others think. Because of our code of conduct I can't represent my agency on a forum like this but if you want to post an email address I'd be glad to continue this off the site.

[2dalake]

By the way, I think it's talk in the first place that a portable shelter should need a license.

[RoadRunner]

I can't believe the things some people p!ss and moan about! If you can afford the fishhouse and all the gear that goes along with the sport then certainly $12.50 a year for a fishouse license is well within your reach. I bet alot of the guys complaining about the cost of the license also spend 25 or 50 bucks on beer and food for a weekend of fishing without batting an eye, but boy, that $12.50 once a year for a shelter license is an outrage. Before you say it isn't the cost of the license, it's the principle of the DNR just sucking more money out us, think about what fishing and hunting would be like without the money raised from licenses.

Also, next time you are talking to a C.O. remember that they aren't the ones making the laws, they are just doing their jobs-Enforcing the law. They may not always agree with the laws either, but their job is to enforce it. I had a local Police Officer tell me a while back that nowhere does the law give him room to "use his best judgement". He is supposed to uphold the laws as written. Period.

Sorry for the rant, but if we want to enjoy our natural resources like so many of us do, we have to be willing to pay for that priviledge.

[This message has been edited by RoadRunner (edited 03-10-2004).]

[viking_fan]

I agree spend the $12.50 and put more fish in the lake. They use this money to serve us better.