Packers! Packers!...

[WCT]

Hip_Hop Fisherman I'm with you! I look for a much improved Vikes team next season. With the way Onterio(his spelling not mine) Smith came on late in the season, when he got some playing time, makes me wonder why not trade Bennett, now while he has some real value and maybe get a quality D lineman or the rights to draft one? I think that's what the D is missing. MPO Ol'Sneller

[Farley]

Hip-hop fisherman.....honestly, it takes a good running game to make a passing game, not vice versa. THIS YEAR, Ahman is one of the top 4 running backs in the leauge,(Lewis, Priest, Portis, Green,(Faulk if he was healthy the whole season)) you can't say that about Farve. I think there is at least 5 QB's with 1000 more yds. than him. Ahman is the real STUD of that team, hands down!

I'm not bashing Farve, I think he's a great QB and deserves the HOF. But to be a winning team you got to have a good RB. Baltimore didn't make it to the playoffs because of their QB.

We should have traded Moos a few years back before renewing his contract.

[This message has been edited by Farley (edited 01-12-2004).]

[hip_hop_fisherman]

WCT, that was my feelings exactly on our running game. Bennet has proven he can be a good back but has not proven he can stay healthy. I was really impressed with Ontario this season and wonder why we didn't focus on him getting yards during the Cardinals game. As far as what position to trade Bennet for, I think we should look into moving up as far as the draft goes, or go after a quality DL as you said. I also think, however, it may be a little early to give up on him yet, who really knows? Just my thoughts. I'm not on there payroll so I know they don't care what little ol' me has to say! Also I'm not trying to upset anyone, just stating my thoughts on the vikings situation. I don't personally feel Culpepper is as much of a problem as people believe. Our O-line can't cut down their penalties, we don't have a "real" number two reciever, our defense still needs work, but I feel Mike Tice is getting us on the right track. I'm just worried about our owner, he seems to contradict himself a lot as far as what he want to do with the team.

[vikingtom]

Start looking at mistakes, not at fumbles or int. Most of the time it was a penalties that stop them. Pass interfrerce calls by Walker most everytime. When we had Francis T. playing. Didn'the get traded way. We lost him for most of his best years. U talk about getting rid of Moss and Pepper, who's going throw the ball and catch it then. With them in the fold 4 a few years. They can get another good Def, linemen and some good linebackers. Packers suck So does cry baby Farvre and all those cheeseheads.
So start you're crying. you're out of the playoffs now. hahahahaha

[Iron Cowboy]

For all the pepper bashers that say he will never lead th Vikes to a super bowl. You are real smart football guys--did you happen to see Trent Dilfer lead the Ravens to a super bowl win 3 years ago? Or how about Brad Johnson Last year with the Bucs? I suppose those guys are better than pepper too.It takes more than one guy.
A lot of opinions here but not much knowledge

[This message has been edited by Iron Cowboy (edited 01-12-2004).]

[cisco kid]

HEY ACKOTZ--- all the mistique left the packers when they remodled lamboo field, prepare for another 30 yr. drought. Bergstrom car dealership has a #4 special today on all vehicles with manual CHOKE.

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[Teach-D]

You clowns that are bashing Moss and Culpepper are nothing but red_ _ _ _ _.
Are they perfect, no unfortunately, these two football players will never be as good as the people that bash them want them to be. Look at how long it took some of the greats to become greats, look at the supporting casts these people had. Look at players such as Sanders, Payton, etc... that played for perennial losers. They had stats but the "teams," did not win the big games. Funny, these "individuals" were never blamed for that. If Moss and Culpepper leave that you will have a legitimate reason to jump off the bandwagon, yet again- - - who needs ya?

[Guest]

No crying here. I'm still laughing from the Cards/Vikes game. NOOO ! NOOO ! THE CARDS HAVE KNOCKED THE VIKINGS OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS ! LMAO Priceless !!!!

Is'nt manual CHOKE a standard option on all MN vehicles anyways ? If not ,it should be !LOL

Go ahead and take your best shots V-fans. You got NOTHIN on the Pack and you know it. Until the Vikes go to the show and actualy WIN it's all just static. LOL

[Havin' Fun]

Yup it was a crushing blow to the chedar heads.

Couple things....
1. Being in Wisconsin for the Lions Thanksgiving game....Packer fans do complain and whine about Farve, their team ect.

2. Vikings were really not expected to do much this year, they were rebuilding. Culpepper really did improve apon his last season and if he continues to improve, so will the Vikings.

3. Our defense is getting better. Need more Kevin Williams'.

4. Pray for another good draft!

[Duffman]

Geeman.....
The Pack stole a page from the Purple. As soon as they opted to not go for it on 4th and 1, I said "That's what the Vikes would have done!". I knew the game was over at that point. Dang Pack, I would have been four for four in the pool this weekend with a big lead for the rest of the playoffs. All I can say now is Go Indy!

[Teach-D]

As much disdain as I have for packers fans, I cannot bash them. The biggest reason to bash them Especially coming from Minnesota is the loyalty, support, and patients they show for their team, coaches, players, etc. I am a diehard vikings fan and will always dislike the packers, but their are some things about them I have got to respect. I have a much deeper dislike for anybody that calls themselves a true vikings fan and constantly bashes the best players on the team. These same people constantly bash the coaching staff. Being critical is one thing, these palyers can handle that since the old excuse is that if they are making a mill$ they should be able to take any and all abuse. It is the clowns that do not look at improvement, do not look at such things as total supporting cast, coaching, (most penalized team in NFL, ya your going places?), etc... I am not even a huge football fan but at least I can say I support them in good AND bad times. I can say my ankles are fine as I stay ON the bandwagon. I can say that it could be worse, their are other teams, cities, franchises, etc... that have it worse. If we don't suppor them up here thair are a lot of other cities that would love to have sports franchises. Appreciate what you have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Leaky]

To all the Moss/Culpepper Bashers:

Culpepper - 29 TD's/11 Ints (13 games, or was it 14?). He had almost identital numbers to McNair (Co-MVP)

Favre - 35 TD's/22 Ints (16 games and going to the Hall of Fame)

Moss - 17 TD's, 5 more than the next closest receiver in the NFL. He also had no #2 wideout step up to take some pressure off.

All that with your star RB out for most of the year. Get a couple of defensive players, a reliable kicker, and the Vikes are right in the thick of it next year. But it certainly wasn't because of the play of Moss or Culpepper. How long has Culpepper been starting now? 3 full years? Anyone remember Favres first 3 years? There were times it was downright ugly, especially in the Dome.

[This message has been edited by Leaky (edited 01-12-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Leaky (edited 01-12-2004).]

[Guest]

Blame it all on the Broncos

[Teach-D]

Leaky, it is nice to see a fellow outdoorsperson with some intelligence and a sense of fairness. The vikings are a good team that has a lot of potential to be great, just a few pieces to the puzzle. For all of those that do not realize how important it is for this team to have Moss and Culpepper, and how good they really are, do everybody a favor: do not support the team, do not pretend to support the team, go on about your business. True fans do not need your type around and if rooting for the home team vikings is so painful do not do it, contrary to what you may believe you will NOT!!! bemissed.

[Flash King]

What you need are not SUPER STARS but a TEAM.
Been a loyal follower of the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS for over 30 years-now is our turn!Minnesota has a good coach and some players(sic) to build around - your time will be in the near future for sure. PS Get rid of the DOME and play Football like Football is supposed to be played.

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[onthewall eyes]

So what your telling me Teach-D is that you are a die hard fan no matter what. No matter if the Vikes never win a super bowl, no matter if we have a huge quarterback who has all the right things but will never get it all together. Have you seen what it takes to win a superbowl. A good Defenses and a good quarterback. Ie. Broncos, Packers,Patriots, Cowboys. Look at their QB's and their defense and then tell me the Vikings can win a super bowl at where they are. Changes have to be made and yes they will be expensive changes. Peace

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searchin skys for eyes

[wade22]

i'm not going to let this thread get hijacked by all this irrelevant, arbitrary vikings chatter. the simple fact remains that the packers went down like a big lump of overrated pepperjack cheese. stale and moldy. just like their pathetic defense on that embarrasing 4th and 26 that was converted!!! how good does it get? watching the packers look like a bunch of drunken wisconsinites trying to beat a roadside sobriety test. what was all that "team of destiny" talk anyways? give me a break, they were average at best. i didn't think for one moment that the super bowl was going to the team with najeh davenport anyways. do you know what naughty things he did at miami? milli and vanilli are only good at lip syncing and whatever happened to chmura? oh yeah, that's right

[kevfish]

I think you people are all missing my point from earlier posts. All the stats and talent in the world does not win championships- Teams do, and a big part of it is playing like a team and there is no " I in team the last time I looked- Just look what carolina has done this year and you do not see those kind of stats out of their QB. You also do not see Muhamid and smith taking plays off, not blocking etc. you know what I mean just watch Moss when he dont get the ball. Come On Vikes lets put a TEAM together.

[This message has been edited by kevfish (edited 01-12-2004).]

[kevfish]

Have you ever seen pepper rush to the line of scimmage after catching the time clock out of the corner of his eyes about to expire-hard to teach that one

[wounded minnow]

Who cares! Yes it's fun to watch, and I'm glad there is an interstate rivalry, but some of you need to get a grip. I'm a loyal Packer Backer, and the Vikes are by far my least favorite team, but do any of you really think that Moss or Farve for that matter really care about you, your family, and your career? I would highly doubt it. I'm content,(not overjoyed however) with the way it turned out. Now we can all concentrate on reeling in the big ones.

[can it be luck?]

Bottom line??? Pack wins NFC North and beat out the Vikes. You can't argue who did better this year, or talk about the "if onlys". SB or not, at least I know one thing(based on records), GB was better than the Vikes!!!! PACK WINS NFC NORTH!!!!!!! PACK WINS NFC NORTH!!!!!!!PACK WINS NFC NORTH!!!!!!!PACK WINS NFC NORTH!!!!!! PS: Ottoman, fellow Wausau native here. GO PACK!!

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http://groups.msn.com/canitbeluck

[Mankato-Ice-Man]

HOW can Packers fans stick the Vikings for losing to Arizona???
They beat the Packers earlier in the year when a certain QB said he was hurt but is too stuck on his own consecutive starts streak to sit out to help the team. They also played a Raiders team that had given up on their coach and had fallen apart, something that had not happened yet when the Vikes played there.

Seems people East of the border fail to realize that you got in to the playoffs becuase you played a Denver Bronco's team that sat all of its stars and still played a very tight game for over 3 quarters before a bunch of Denver 3rd stringers made some special teams mistakes.

Face it, NO team from this divsion belonged in the playoffs. Either team would have been playing week 2 becuase Seattle is one of the worst road teams in NFL history, Holmgren can't win at the dome or at the Lamb (1-3 now? maybe 1-2?)

If you can all step back and take a look at both teams, you can see they are mirror images of each other, with a few expetions:

QB- Both teams have very good QB's, neither in their prime, one is past it, one is on his way to it.

RB- Both teams have a great running game, Mn does it with several players, GB does it with mostly one. This would not have been the case if Bennett was healthy.

WR- One might say we have the advantage of Moss, but we do not have the depth that GB does. They have no super stars, but they have 3 WRs that are better then average.

Oline- both have great offensive lines that can suffer from mental break downs at bad times and cause their QB to create on the run- Favres INT #'s, Cullpeppers fumble #'s.

Dline- Both have some great players, but are the one impact player away from making the other 3 better. GB's signing of Joe Johnson from the Saints was a huge bust and Minnesota needs an impact DE since Williams cant play out there.

Dbacks- Both need help. You can not keep winning with McKenzie (sp?) and whomever else is out there. They are over rated and seem to be in the right place at the right time. Several teams passed at will on the Packers this year, and it bit them in the playoffs when it counted. Minnesota needs to make a Dre Bly type singing this year. Brian Williams is going to be a GREAT #2 CB, but can't cover teams #1's.

Here is the difference, and if you look back through the season, you will find that is really is THE difference in the outcome of the season for both teams:

SPECIAL TEAMS! Packers have the advantage of one of the better kickers in the league and a veteran punter (that knocked you out of the playoffs by kicking for a touchback with 3 plus minutes left in the game).
Miscues by the Vikings special teams cost at least 3 games and tons of points. Several times Tice went for it on fourth down becuase we were out of Ellings range (not out of range of 75% of the rest of the kickers) and he didnt trust the punt in that situation.

In my opinion, both teams will be making the push for the same area's:

Impact defensive lineman
Shut down CB
Primary WR for Packers, Second WR for Vikings
Blocking TE
Linebackers with spead- Each team really only has one.

There you have it. Sorry this got long.
If fans of both teams are honest with themselves, these teams are not that different.

ENJOY THE SEASON.... oops, over for both teams, and rightfully so.

Jeremy

[Guest]

dam Im glad I live in Iowa

[lucky7]

Take heart Pack fans John Elway won TWO superbowls for us long after everyone outside of Colorado left him for dead. Brett might just surprise all of us.....By the way how are the fish biting? (almost forgot this is an ice fishing forum)

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lucky7

[cisco kid]

can it be luck? packers! 2003-04 can I say more? not really. get over it!

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