Homeowner's insurance deductible

[Roofer]

Roofer, my insurance company knew exactly what went down and din't care. They told me if I could do some of the work and save money over what the bid was, then fine.

Thats exactly what I did and they didn't care. You must have some different insurance company covering you.

I can't believe an insurance company would allow you to have others on your roof that are not insured and hired by you. As far as doing the work yourself, I believe you.

[Macgyver55]

Does a contractor return money to a customer if he comes in under budget/estimate or has materials left over that could be returned? I'd be interested in why there would be a difference between that and an insurance claim estimate.

[harvey lee]

This kind of fits for an insurance company. Pay the premiums and then when one has a claim, try to get it done for the least amount.

Yes, I have replacement cost coverage and they paid in full for everything that was damaged. The first adjuster that came to the house was from Florida and didn't have a clue about buildings in the rural farm area. After about 5 minutes of talking with him, I asked him to leave and that I would call the insurance comapny and have them send out an adjuster from the area that had some idea of local values.

They did.

[Sandmannd]

I know of someone that lives in Hugo and the neighborhood got together and are fixing each other's roofs. They do one then go on to the next. Myself, I would hire it out cause I don't know roofing. There are things I know how to do that I would just do myself. If the adjuster is giving more than it costs to get done, that's the insurance companies problem. They should find some adjusters that know what the actual cost is. Besides, pretty sure the insurance companies have insurance or deduct what they pay out. Never seen anyone who's any good in the insurance business that is hurting.

I just took my boat in for a claim. They had me take it to the shop and got the estimate from them. They pay the shop for the work minus my deductable which I pay when I pick it up. If this is a problem in housing why don't they do that? I don't think a grand here or there really hurts someone as large as an insurance company. Besides, if that's what it would cost to have your roof done and you know how to do it, then there you go. I also carry a 1 million dollar umbrella policy with my home owners. Not saying I want to ever use it, but it's there.

There are a lot of DIY folks around especially on this site. There are a lot of things I know how to do and will do on my own. How many change their oil, breaks, outlets, frame, plumb, etc. I have a lot of respect for what you do Roofer and from you're posts I can tell you are a great guy. If my roof blows off I would love someone like you to fix it. But if something else happens that I can fix, I'll do it that way.

[Roofer]

Does a contractor return money to a customer if he comes in under budget/estimate or has materials left over that could be returned? I'd be interested in why there would be a difference between that and an insurance claim estimate.

The quotes give 10% for waste, you can go as high as 15% and be payed for it. They are measured to within a bundle.

example

tear off 26.66 square

replacement 27.33 square

Do you hand any cash back to your boss when you do less work?

[Roofer]

Thanks for the words sandman.

The reason this really bothers me is that we are approached by people who directly ask how much money we can save them, so they can keep it. There are contractors advertising 3-4000 under ins. claims. I may have said this before, but does that seem a little wrong to anyone else?

[ottertailguy]

Maybe people are thinking that since roofing companies are using Mexican crews that they shouldn't have to pay full price. I doubt they are get the wages that insurance companies are figuring into for the price for labor. I had my roof done 2 years ago and only 1 of the crew could speak English. I'm also betting that most of the guys on my roof and everyone else's are illegal immigrants. What do you have to say to that Roofer guy???

[Roofer]

Maybe people are thinking that since roofing companies are using Mexican crews that they shouldn't have to pay full price. I doubt they are get the wages that insurance companies are figuring into for the price for labor. I had my roof done 2 years ago and only 1 of the crew could speak English. I'm also betting that most of the guys on my roof and everyone else's are illegal immigrants. What do you have to say to the Roofer guy???

I agree with you 100%. Anyone who hires them should be in prison. I'm sure there is no mention of it to the homeowner when the contract is signed.

We have done hundreds of houses with no immigrants.

[Sandmannd]

Thanks for the words sandman.

The reason this really bothers me is that we are approached by people who directly ask how much money we can save them, so they can keep it. There are contractors advertising 3-4000 under ins. claims. I may have said this before, but does that seem a little wrong to anyone else?

That to me is wrong and a lot different than doing the work yourself. If you are going to a contractor and expecting them to over bid and then give you the difference, one, you are wrong to do so and two the contractor can get in some trouble I would thing.

[BoxMN]

You come out ahead getting everything replaced for free or almost free. That isn't good enough?

You are saying a Contractor should slash his prices just to get a job that a homeowner doesn't even have to pay for?

WHAT?!?! Where did I say that that wasn't good enough? Where did I say I pocketed anything? I did not. The contractor (not backyard guy, but a company that has been around for quite a while) knows how much it takes for him to make money. If he didn't make money, he wouldn't do it. What the heck is wrong with shopping around for a good price for a quality product? And when you have roof, windows and siding combined into the same job, you are telling there is not economies of scale?...

I have a sneaking idea that maybe, just maybe, this worked out well for all. Contractor got job that "he" bidded, the insurance payed out exactly what they estimated, the job was done correctly and all things were fixed, and yes I got more work done for the same amount of money (and I did pay more than just the insurance money, but the economies of scale certainly worked in my favor).

I also got this guy 3 other jobs that I know of, by referal.

BTW - just because a crew is Mexican doesn't mean they are illegals. Might be yes, but not necessarily.

I won't post to this one anymore...

[croixflats]

Back to the original question. I dont know anything about the insurence end on the house. Is that one 1% of total cost in damage that your responsible for. If it is, it sounds pretty good for wind and hail damage, better than a fixed rate deductable.

[Coach1310]

Originally Posted By: Macgyver55

Does a contractor return money to a customer if he comes in under budget/estimate or has materials left over that could be returned? I'd be interested in why there would be a difference between that and an insurance claim estimate.

The quotes give 10% for waste, you can go as high as 15% and be payed for it. They are measured to within a bundle.

example

tear off 26.66 square

replacement 27.33 square

Do you hand any cash back to your boss when you do less work?

I guess I don't see why you can have it both ways????? On one hand you say a homeowner should only use the $$$ it costs to get the job done and then return the left over money to the insurance company. Then you say a contractor builds in 10-15% waste on their bid/estimate...does that mean you always have 10-15% waste and never come out a little ahead on this faction of your bid??? If I am supposed to be exact, then the contractor should be EXACT... no 10% extra or waste or whatever... I have no problem with it being built in a bid, but thinking a homeowner is a crook because a guy gets work done for a few bucks less than the insurance company paid is ridiculous.

I completely agree that getting in with a contractor and telling him to bid it a few thousand higher and then he cuts you a check is completely wrong, but shopping around and finding a good price is much different than that.

I am starting to think this debate is..... consumers on one end vs. contractors on the other. I am sure contractors don't want to see jobs going to dirt cheap bids because these companies are using cheap labor and edging out the hardworking, trusting contractors. They also don't like homeowners doing their own work as it leads to less work, less $$$ for them.

The process is a bit flawed, but because some folks get the work done for less than the insurance company gives them is the insurance companies problem, it doesn't mean these homeowners are crooks.

**This isn't meant to bash any contractors/companies etc. Just presenting points of view.

[sparcebag]

WOW 99 bucks a sq. with cheap shingles! Thats why I'd do my own,and I've plenty of time.

[Roofer]

From the last few posts, I think we are starting to understand eachother. Thanks for listening to the other side of the story.

The difference with the waste.......we pay taxes on our income, same as everyone else. A homeowner that pockets money does not. Waste is factored in for a reason. Sometimes we get bad shingles. We have thrown whole bundles away that we pay for. There are scraps that get thrown away(2-3 inch pieces) that we pay for, and should be payed for that. Just say a dumpster is $450 for a 20 yarder. If it is only 3/4 full, we still pay for the whole $450.

Just this morning a customer got their estimate from their adjuster. It is about $3500 too low. We looked at my estimate compared to his and he missed many things. He totally missed the ridge cap which costs us $34 per 20 feet just for material. He missed ice and water shield that is code by almost 5 rolls at $45 a piece just for material.

I try to be fair and get the homeowner what they deserve. That way they don't have to shop around to find someone that is $3500 lower than our bid. Someone would definitely have to cut corners to do that and who gets the shaft on that???? the homeowner.

[Roofer]

deductible is 1% of what the home is worth.....$200,000 is 2,000 deductible.

Shingles just went from $54 a square to almost $70. We can't shop around too much for prices. These shingle companies are obviously some of the ones taking advantage, but with oil to make them, I can understand.

[Roofer]

Also, to be honest, we had another estimate from an adjuster that was at 40 square of siding and the house is actually only 16 square. He missed it, we caught it, and he re-estimated. Our price for roof and siding on that job are within $200 of his new estimate.

[Macgyver55]

The quotes give 10% for waste, you can go as high as 15% and be payed for it. They are measured to within a bundle.

Do you hand any cash back to your boss when you do less work?

No, I'm allowed 10% for waste, and can go as high as 15% less work and be still be payed for it. . (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

Seriously though, if someone has an insurance adjuster out to estimate their loss (of any kind), they determine the amount, which they deem to be fair to do the job, then that is what they are prepared to pay. Why is a contractor entitled to extra money more than a homeowner is entitled to leftover money? If an individual does the legwork to find a contractor (who can save them money) and do an equal job for less why can't they pocket the extra? Possibly he is willing to work for less money. Maybe he is a better estimator and doesn't need 10 or 15% waste to cover him. Or he is careful about waste to save his customers money and quote lower to gain jobs. Maybe he has some new super-duper secret method of doing a quality job faster than his competition allowing him to move on to the next job sooner. Whatever the case, its no more unethical for a homeowner to do that, than for a contractor to be paid extra when they "build in waste" to cover expenses they don't actually incur on that particular job.

[Roofer]

Let's say a house is 27 square and 4 shingles. We have to purchase 27 square and a whole nother bundle. The excess 16 shingles are left for the homeowner. Often times we come back to roof the house the next storm and are asked to dispose of the extra shingles from the last time.

Adjuster's almost always miss something. Maybe they are in a rush or are a lot of times from out of state, and don't know the codes.

I suppose some people would even want the aluminum we tear off, like siding, soffit, or fascia?????? What about the other garbage?? They don't want that. That's why it is a bid. A bid is to do a job start to finish. There is waste factored into any job. Just like the time wasted on the clock talking on FM!

[Roofer]

One customer lady wanted all the scrap pieces of siding from her job. We gladly gave them to her. She was going to have her son put them all together to side her little shed.

Later, we had to come back with a dumpster to get rid of all of it.

[Macgyver55]

Let's say a house is 27 square and 4 shingles. We have to purchase 27 square and a whole nother bundle. The excess 16 shingles are left for the homeowner...... A bid is to do a job start to finish. There is waste factored into any job. Just like the time wasted on the clock talking on FM!

Really, I understand all that and frankly I don't have a problem with it as long as he is honest. (Other than the fact that 16 shingles is a long ways off from 15% of a 27 square job) The main gist of my comment is, I don't see why it is more unethical for a homeowner to pocket his savings than for a higher priced contractor to end up with it. It is the homeowners choice to choose his contractor.

Your main concern for your business should be not ending up in the situation that many other businesses are, where the insurance company dictates what they will pay you. My wife is in the medical field, and is sometimes involved with insurance payments. Often when a doctor or hospital bills an insurance company directly they are told, this is the amount we will pay. (whether or not its what you are billing) Strangely enough its always less than the billing amount that they settle for. As soon as the customer is "out of the loop" for pricing, thats where you'll be. I doubt you'd want to be in that position.

[Roofer]

Maybe you don't understand.

We buy the extra 10% of materials and handle/dispose of the waste. That is what we are paid for. It's not like a contractor can take the shingle pieces that aer waste, home with him and put them on his own house. Even on a new home, if you notice, there is a dumpster there. There is waste on every job. If you even knew what was wasted on commercial jobs, you would cry. They throw away and bury enough to pay for someone's whole house on some jobs. And they get paid to do it. It is part of the trades.

Yes, some contractor's waste way more than others. I have seen where guys cut off shingles and throw away 3/4 of it. I have even heard of (on new houses paid by the square) workers taking full bundles, cutting the shingles in half just to throw in a dumpster. That way it looks like scrap and they get paid for it. Oh yeah, there is plenty of crooks on both sides out there.

[Macgyver55]

Quote:

Maybe you don't understand.

We buy the extra 10% of materials and handle/dispose of the waste. That is what we are paid for.

No, I do understand, I have family that are contractors. Waste is not leftovers from what you NEED to do a job, a certain amount of waste is a given because of the nature of the product. Waste is what you really didn't need in the first place. Clean up and disposal (at least on jobs I've had bid) is often listed as a separate charge. If I were to put expensive new injectors in your truck and ordered 9 (knowing I only need 8) just in case I "wasted" one would that be ok with you if I threw the extra one away?

Quote:

It's not like a contractor can take the shingle pieces that are waste, home with him and put them on his own house

No, but plenty of nails, staples, tarpaper, plywood and 2x4s do!

Now, back to my original thought, can you tell me why it is more unethical for a homeowner to pocket his savings from a lower priced contractor, than for a higher priced contractor to end up with it? One way or the other the insurance company has agreed to pay it.

[Roofer]

Wow, ok, go into business for yourself (sole income) and then answer that question.

Insurance money is to fix your house. It is not the homeowner's personal money.

Two jobs ago, we were two square short on a bid. We went and bought the extra two square and installed them. The bid price did not change.

It is not a homeowner's SAVINGS, it is NOT their personal money. That should answer your question. 10% is allowed for contractor waste. If he wastes less, it is HIS savings. If you understand bids...it is to do a job start to finish for a certain price, whether it takes more or less material or labor.

[jwhjr]

I have an adjuster coming out to assess my property next Thursday. This is the first time I've gone through the process. Do I try and get some estimates before he comes out (which I'm guessing will be tough with all of the recent activity), or wait to see what the adjuster comes up with and go from there?

[Jameson]

BTW, if you look through your insurance claim papers or contact your agent, if you get repairs done under the claim amount, the extra money is to be sent back to the insurance company....