Bass are in trouble and need protection!

[cjac]

Quote:

At the very least, we all need to really promote a strong catch and release ethic now more than ever...

Sorry if I wasn't totally clear, this was the "message" part of the post I agreed with. In reality, I know a change 4 days out is not realistic and was not suggesting that.

[gritsnham]

This can really be a touchy issue as everytime these types of threads come up they get some really heated debates. The DNR has slowly started to make changes such as making some lakes catch and release only and others with a slot. I mainly fish metro lakes and know that they get fished very hard but I generally see a healthy population of fish in the lakes I fish. I would really like to see more lakes that are catch and release only that people fishing for sport can enjoy, for sport. This issue just always seems so slippery to me because C&R in some cases is not doing that much. Some fish dont return to their beds and others will die from the stress of being caught. Lots of this occurs every year no matter when the spawn is because people are out fishing long before bass season. Overall I think the bass will be fine and that bass being caught and kept has to be an accepted part of our states fisheries. If anyone has ever enjoyed secluded waters(private lakes or the BWCAW) more fished lakes dont come close to comparing to the fish populations these lakes hold.

All we as sporting bass fishermen can do is support and promote catch and release!

[Slyster]

Bass really do not taste good... and fish are such a pain to clean anyway... I would SO rather buy some Cod at the local grocery store than clean a fish. Cod is better than ANY Minnesota fish anyway... and you don't have to toss the guts in the garbage can to stink up until garbage day anyway.

I will say that a good pike or walleye is really tasty and I do keep a couple of each every year.

I can't believe people keep fish at times.. since with gas and time and all that.. it just doesn't pay! What pays is the experience. Of course.. some combine both the experience and the food... but what a pain to clean the fish.

I have kept probably around 10 fish in the last 4 years.

[smallie_hawgin]

Many of our lakes are filled with one and two pound bass. It's no big deal to go out and catch 50-100 of these in short order. Big bass (4-7 pounds) are getting to be a smaller and smaller segment of the population. Big ones are being taken out, and now is prime time...it sure makes sense to me. I have lived in and fished the Brainerd area for over 30 years. On the majority of the lakes, bass fishing IS NOT what it used to be.

Anyway, my main point is that we need to promote catch and release, now more than ever.

Tim,

I will also respectfully disagree. Look at the electrofishing data from you fisheries offices. I can just about guarantee that in most of Central MN you would be hard pressed to convince any biologists that bass are in trouble. Fecundity(egg bearing capacity) and recruitment (Survival to spawning size) of largemouth bass is generally very good. You will see folks keeping fish, this is true. But all it takes to sustain a fishery with bass is one or two nests to make it through the spawning season. Think about that for a few minutes....

Others also pointed out that other states have limited seasons and the bass fishing is doing fine.... well there is a caviat.. more stringent length and bag limits are in place. I have lived and worked in TX, MI, CT, OH, CO and fished in ND, WI, NM, OK, MT .... anyway, the general concept is that most of the lower 48 do NOT have seasonal restrictions on bass. Michigan is looking into relaxing their restrictions while other states have never had seasonal restrictions. An ideal compromise that would actually do some biological good would be a year round season with a C&R season between the end of February and mid June. This would prevent any legal harvest from occurring and protect the spawning stock legitimately.

Seasonal restrictions unfairly put additional pressure on the species in question in general. Seasonal variation as we have this year will happen.... mother nature has a way to deal with that in fisheries.... generally other species compensate, or following years will have strong year classes.

I agree with you on the C&R promotion.... this should always be the case... and is... look at almost any fishing mag or show.... they all tout it...

If you want to do something positive in the Brainerd lakes area I would suggest talking personally with all the cabin and home owners around the lakes that have significantly altered their shoreline habitat. They are truly the ones we as sportsmen/women should be angry with. Removal of vegetation, trees and terrestrial debris (natural) has caused more issues than most harvest situations for sure....

If you think about it. The private land owners are changing your public property with out ever asking you!!!

Enough cents from my soap box....

[Ray Esboldt]

Quote:

If you want to do something positive in the Brainerd lakes area I would suggest talking personally with all the cabin and home owners around the lakes that have significantly altered their shoreline habitat. They are truly the ones we as sportsmen/women should be angry with. Removal of vegetation, trees and terrestrial debris (natural) has caused more issues than most harvest situations for sure....

Eric,

You are right on there! That is the biggest enemy of bass, pike, walleye, panfish, spottail shiner, you name it. If the bank and near shore habitat are allowed to be altered, gauranteed a fish loses some part of his/her home.

[fishcast]

I'd say largemouth recruitment rates are plenty high in most central MN lakes, so I don't think numbers of bass will be hurt at all. However, I think on smaller lakes some of the big fish population could unfortunately take a big hit if people don't cpr or harvest very selectively, that normally wouldn't happen since a lot of bigger fish could be more concentrated and potentially easier to catch because of the timing of the spawn this year. I think postponing season times would be a little much but I sure hope that if people do choose to harvest bass that they do selectively.

[Tim_Anderson]

Pretty tough to do a post here without people taking everything literally and analyzing it to death.

When I said "bass are in trouble", that doesn't mean I think their population is going to be whiped out or even decimated this weekend (I'll have to be more careful with my post title next time). What I do mean is that they are going to be incredibly vulnerable for the next few weeks...quite possibly the most vulnerable I have ever seen them in over 30 years of fishing them. Regardless of what everyone's catch and release ethic is HERE, plenty of folks catch, kill, and eat bass everywhere. I personally see it all the time.

My point is that killing big females off the beds is ashame. It's pointless and it personally makes me sick (I know I am not alone in this...most veteran fishermen I know feel the same). Yes, it's an individual right to keep the fish, but that's the way I am. I'm the same way with musky, pike, walleye, pretty much everything.

I have a huge group of fishermen that I work and consult with on a very regular basis. We've talked about this alot lately. Everyone agrees that more bass than usual are going to go under the knife in the next couple of weeks. It seems so obvious to all of us. Why is that so hard to understand, and why does it garner so much "disagreement" here? That really puzzles me.

I can go out to the Gull chain, or any number of area lakes on Saturday and catch 200 bass with a partner without any difficulty. I have seen them gathering en masse in most of the lakes that I have been fishing the past couple of weeks. But I can guarantee you that I will have a hard time breaking the 3 or 4# mark. It might happen a couple of times. My point...numbers don't constitute health, at least not with me. Same goes with hammer handle pike...they're overrun in just about every lake around here. Truly big bass are becoming rare in many lakes, just like big pike have been for so many years. I used to commonly boat more than 20 largemouth bass over 20" in a summer. I'd be hard pressed to do that now, no matter how hard I tried. Again, hard to see them taken out when they're so vulnerable and actually in the act of spawning. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Maybe I'm a bit overboard on this (I admit)...but truly big fish are a special thing! I just really have a hard time seeing them taken out. My opinion, too many big bass ARE being taken out. I agree that our recruitment is fine...it's our representation of the older year classes that stinks.

I support the catch and release idea throughout the potential spawning season, but my final point was that there's not a whole lot we can do about it at this point but promote catch and release and make the effort to educate...again, maybe a little more effort by everybody than they would usually do.

Good luck to all this weekend...

[maddawg53]

I know I am a newbie here but I comletely agree with Tim. It's not generally the people who are on here that can be a problem. It's the people that take one week a year and darn it, they are gonna eat fish all week AND take their limits home with them, no matter what species we are talking about. FMers are generally avid fisherman who practice C&R regularly (I think). That being said, being the avid bass guy that I am, should I feel guilty catching Bass to my hearts content this weekend and releasing every last one of them or should I stay home and wait for them to get off thier beds? I hooking mortality really as bad as some think it is? I'd like to think it isn't, maybe I'm being naive.

[SledNeck]

The bass in the northern part of the state have been getting bigger IMO. Especially with regulations in place like (a certain lake I fish=Bass must be released from 14 to 20 inches, with one bass over 20 inches allowed in possession) The bass fishing in lake Vermilion is now better than I or anyone I talked to can ever remember...for size and numbers. Most of the people Ive seen who keep and eat bass, fish from shore and dont own boats or they are from Iowa/Indiana/Illinois.

[cjac]

Very well said Tim, especially from a muskie guy at heart!

Maybe it's the muskie mentality, but the preservation and protection of the larger spawning females is what the intent of the initial post was all about. Great points were raised from others about CPR, shoreline landscaping & restoration....they all go hand in hand.

We're all after the same end result, better fisheries for all! Translation....more big bass! Is it Saturday AM yet?........

Regards, Chris

[uplander]

Unfortunatly not all anglers have the same ethics as the ones on this web site...The best we can do is inform those we know and come in contct with of the negative affects of taking large fish out of the ecosystem...Not just durring the spawn, but anytime...We all know the larger fish are females and produce thousands of eggs each year....My guess is if you polled the common man about that, he would have no clue!!!!! So talk to people you know and more importantly people you don't know..."in a nice way".. and try to educate them....It can't hurt.

Good luck this weekend....I'm kind of excited to get after some pre-spawn largies ....have fun...uplander

[gritsnham]

That is a great point smallie_hawg about the shorline landscape. I was recently scouting a lake and the majority of the beds that I saw where in a isolated and little man altered area. the rest of the lake is house shoreline and had few beds.

All we as avid outdoorsman can do is promote our beliefs and try to convince others why C&R is so important under growing fishing pressure and technology.

Good luck to all on this most sacred holiday...im stuck working so catch some bass for me...

[hhguide]

I have to disagree with tim on this one, Tim you said that you can easly go out and catch 200 bass in a day and that you wont break the 3 or 4 pound mark often well maybe its because there are so many bass in the lakes the the bigger ones dont get the best spawning ground so they wont produce as much. I do agree with you on some points though but I feel that the bass with be just fine. I think people should let those big girls go but if people would take out the smaller fish (both Males and Females) then the breading might become better

[Mark Christianson]

Outstanding post smallie_hogger!

[Big Bill Brasky]

Excellent post Mr. Altoona! and Mt. St BLB good additions as well. No need to lock down bass regs on a state that is already overly regulated.

-Bill Brasky

[fishnhuntnboy]

From reading this everyone has their own view. Yes i love to fish for bass and that is the main species i fish for almost the only i fish for. I promote C&R all the time. I never keep fish and when i do is when they either swallowed the hook or are about to die. And i like bass. i dont think that they taste too bad. everyone has got their own likes and dislikes. i mean i hate northerns. i cannot stand the taste of them or anything.

thing is will the bass be hurt by this weekend. no i dont think they will. could it hurt the spawn maybe. it is hard telling what all will happen. i'd have to agree with some that their are not as many big bass as there used to be. i catch a lot of 2# and less with the occasional 3-4# everyonce in awhile. obviously if the DNR thought that the bass was going to be in a big hurt, they would have either postponed opener or would have called a state-wide C&R. i've noticed in the past few years that numbers are starting to climb and catching more fish than average. may not be catching more bigger fish, but it also depends on where you are fishing and how hard the fish has been hit and turned off. i would have to agree with some of the FMers and say there is less bigger fish. i think its the people who dont care keep all the big fish they can. it doesnt matter what species it is. if its big they will keep it.

also as a guy in his early 20's, id like to see more catch and release for the future generation. i want to be able to take my kids out fishing and show them the fun sport and be able to still catch fish and big fish as well.

as sledneck said, the bass is getting bigger up north. (and sledneck tell your son congrats, looks like you have got him addicted and before ya kno it he will out fish ya ) i completly agree with him. i have caught some big hog smallies up there. it doesnt matter if your on a boat or on shore. i think the reason is because everyone goes north for the eyes and they probably have the same view as we do on bass. im sure some guys up north complain about the population of walleye being down, well thats what everyone fishes for and down here in the metro alot go for bass. so it goes either way.

on the other hand good luck to all this weekend. as i have got to work all weekend. if anyone is fishing the isanti/cambridge area i will see you at the docks.

good luck, have fun, and be safe

[RK]

Hiya -

Yeah, this is a tangle, for sure. I'm going to limit my comments to actively bedding fish, since it seems to me that this is where most of the issues are. Fishing for bedding fish seems to be a constant source of controversy, not just here but elsewhere. I have a few thoughts on this, so bear with me...this could get lengthy. But there's a lot of biology here to consider. Just because they're what I focus on most often, a lot of the biological info I'm going to bass on will be specific to smallmouths, but to me the ethical dilemmas are comparable with LMB.

Personally, I won't fish for bass that are actively guarding nests. It frosts me when I see people doing it, especially for smallmouths.

Research by Dr Mark Ridgway of the Ontario MNR on Lake Opeongo researching nesting behavior and recruitment/survival of smallmouth bass has shown that angling has a significant effect on nest guarding behavior and ultimately recruitment of smallmouth bass. (The Lake Opeonogo research project has been in progress since the 1960s, and is one of the longest-running animal research projects in the world, so the data is pretty solid...) Ridgway's research showed that targeting nesting males had a significant effect on brood survival:

"We found that the abundance of age-0 smallmouth bass decreased as the daily probability of capturing a nesting male increased in both catch-and-keep and catch-and-release policies. Opening dates during the nesting season, when males were guarding broods, also decreased the abundance of age-0 fish. This decrease was dramatic when the opening date occurred early in the parental care period relative to late in the period. Stress resulting from handling time for catch-and-release can have a significant impact on the abundance of age-0 fish because nesting males may abandon guarding behavior."

When bass are guarding nests, they are essentially in starvation mode, similar to what smallmouths do during mid-winter. They don't forage for the duration of their nesting process, from egg laying to brood swim-up, when fry leave the nest. They might appear fat and healthy, but this is largely due to osmotic absorption of water (again, similar to mid-winter). So when you catch a fish off a bed, it's already starving and low on energy.

How does this affect spawning success? In another study looking at the effects of brood survival with catch and release angling, brood success rates dropped by nearly 20% when guarding males were caught and released. Keep in mind typical brood survival is only around 30% in the first place. How long fish were kept after capture made no statistical difference in whether or not nests were abandoned after fish were caught and released. Even if you 'let them go right away' there's still a fairly high probability that nests will be abandoned.

Now, consider that the number of spawning fish is significantly smaller than the overall population. According to Ridgway, only 1/3 of the males in any smallmouth population actually nest in any given year. These designated spawners are preselected the year before, by a mechanism that isn't at all understood. So if a nest-guarding bass is caught and released, and abandons the nest, or is caught and kept during pre-spawn, it is NOT replaced in the spawning population by another male. The other 2/3 of the males are freeloaders, not spawning at all that season. (There's no data specifically on catch and release of pre-spawn bass, but other research on displacement of catch and release angling seems to indicate minimal effects on spawning behavior...)

Finally, factor in the relatively concentrated nature of spawning bass on many bodies of water, and then consider the effects of even catch and release angling on bedding fish.

If the season is open, it's legal. But to me, just because you can, doesn't mean you should, at least when it comes to fishing bass on beds. When I see beds, I leave. For smallies, as far as catching the things goes, it's probably the right move anyhow. With only 1/3 of the males guarding nests, 2/3 are still off the bedding areas feeding. More fish to catch there anyhow. Plus any postspawn females are not in bedding areas either.

My $.02., and only an opinion. FWIW...

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[polarsusd81]

Thanks for the scientific insight RK. Always great when you post up information that has actual data behind it. That makes it extremely difficult to ignore the facts. Great post!

[river rat316]

Ontario, is completely different then MN, way less growing season and so forth, I to won't fish for bedding smallmouth, largies are a little different because like SH said it only takes about 2-3 good nests for good recruitment, I still will look for fish else where because I truly believe not all fish are spawning at a given time and there will be fish in all different stages this weekend (well for the next 2-3 weekends really) Hopefully we can all get out there and just catch some fish

[Duffman]

Quote:

Ontario, is completely different then MN, way less growing season

Not entirely true, Ontario stretches down into mid-Iowa latitude wise.

I just checked out where the study was done and it has the same length of a growing season as Mille Lacs does.

[ricqik]

IMO, these open and close season are stupid and only fuels people to pressure the lakes even harder on opening weekend. I think it does nothing for the fishery other than to have a reason to regulate people. Just think, the gates closed holding back lots, I mean lots of people just waiting, as soon as it opens, hords of people bust out and the fish are pounded all at once in a weeked. I bet if the gates always open, there'll be less pressure all at once, kinda leveling things out. I used to keep alot of fish I catch in my earlier yrs of fishing and I know the driving factor that causes people to keep fish. I can honestly say we don't need anymore regulations, we will only be adding fuel to the fire. We keep this up, it won't be long until we can't fish at all.

[bassislife]

With all the great tasting pannies in state, why anyone would keep a bass to eat is beyond me. When I see guys coming in with stringers of 2-4lb bass I cringe. I've been catching and releasing bass for countless years now and have only ate one, and that was at a buddy's fish fry. Have never had to eat them and never wanted to because I've always found other more tasteful fish, whether it be sunnies, crappies, or walleyes. For bass, CPR is my way of doing it and always will be!

[grab the net]

When you look at the tournament schedule for the next three weeks,going to be a lot of range balls and GPS way points used to mark the beds and there are going to be a lot of smallies taken and moved to a weigh in site. I know those nests are done for. Not making a judgment just a reality that money is a strong motivator.

[hhguide]

I dont think bass taste bad why do people think they taste bad they eat the same things as any other fish in the lake?

[reddog]

IMO, these open and close season are stupid and only fuels people to pressure the lakes even harder on opening weekend. I think it does nothing for the fishery other than to have a reason to regulate people. Just think, the gates closed holding back lots, I mean lots of people just waiting, as soon as it opens, hords of people bust out and the fish are pounded all at once in a weeked. I bet if the gates always open, there'll be less pressure all at once, kinda leveling things out. I used to keep alot of fish I catch in my earlier yrs of fishing and I know the driving factor that causes people to keep fish. I can honestly say we don't need anymore regulations, we will only be adding fuel to the fire. We keep this up, it won't be long until we can't fish at all.

I couldnt agree more.