TROOPER SATURATION

[Ears]

Cliffy-

I have also been a police officer for 5 years and feel the same way you do. If someone asks to see the radar and I feel its safe, I have no problem letting them see it. If someone demands to see it and states that "its the law", I never let those people out as it is obvious they are agitated and that would be a officer safety issue. Its not your right to see the radar.

[SCCO9803]

Just finished up my BA at St. Clous state in May and graduated from Law Enforcement skills this summer, and passed the POST test. There is definitely no "right" to see the radar lock. In fact, a police officer doesn't need any radar to issue a speeding ticket. When a traffic ticket is taken to court the officers training will come in to question and it will be clearly evident that an officer is well enough trained to gauge speed. Also many radar units are equipped with audio squelch, which allows for an officer to hear if someone is speeding without even looking at the radar read out. Also, as was stated, quotas are an urban legend. I agree with the other two officers, why would you let someone get into your squad just to see a radar read out. I'd gladly lose a speeding ticket in court than lose my life.
*Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.

[grab da net]

I guess alot of us more or less law abiding regular folks feel a bit of ambivalance towards law enforcement officers.
On the one hand; we don't feel any real animosity towards cops. We're not "anti-cop", but we get a little self-conscious or nervous when we're driving down the road or street or whatever, (doing the nominal "speedlimit") and an officer seems to be checking us out,(tailing), or driving slower that the traffic flow, or posting roadside, etc.
On the other hand; we are glad to see the town cop, or the county-mountie drive past our place, or down our street now and then. However, there seems to be a general consensus that police officers are sometimes not doing enough to deter theft, vandalism, and other sorts of criminal mischief.
Also, alot of people feel that police focus their resources toward law violations that can and do generate "revenue" and "job security" for the county,state,city and local police force. (these same violations coincidently generate revenue and job security for the local lawyers and courthouse crew also).

What we all have to keep in mind is that the average officer is just trying to do his job. There may or may not be "quotas", but cop friends have told me that the "Dept." reviews their citation history/ record - and compares it to "statistics" as a way of evaluating their job performance and effectiveness. The problen with this that I see, is that "gung ho" officers, who are more agressive in apprehending and ticketing violators can skew the stats upward, which pressures other officers to "keep up" in the ticketing of violators, which in turn means less tolerance as a whole toward marginal offences.

I also think that Cops need to realize that many people regard their personal Constitutional liberties and freedoms as being infringed when forced to submit under penalty of -incarceration/fine/seizure/confiscation - for random vehicle checks, roadblocks, breath/blood/urine tests, etc when there is no apparent probable cause. Or when probable cause is vaguely and arbitrarily defined as in "holiday season drinking" or "fishing season opener".

Officers need to realize that they are the only government officials that many of us average citizens ever come into contact with. And that while they might regard a broken taillight as reason enough to pull over a motorist; the guy driving the car might be thinking: "is this a free country or what?", and might have a less than cooperative and amiable attitude.

I can't right off remember which Founding Father wrote; "That government is best which governs least" but it's always made alot of sense to me.

[scalescratcher]

About 20 yrs ago I was pulled over in Wi for speeding in an area that I was certain I was not guilty of. The officer wrote me up based on a radar reading. I always pondered how these radar devices work and whether once clocking a speeder that the officer could leave that registered speed displayed and use it for the next "speeder" to come along. Do these units automatically reset? I have no issues with the police. I respect them for what they do in and for the community and only ask the same in return. The officer referenced above turned out to be a real doozy as I found out later in court. Fortunately it was my only run-in with this guy.

[cliffy]

Grab da net:

Good post..very interesting and well thought out comments. I think a lot of people would agree with you. (I do). I would just like to add a slightly different perspective on a couple of your comments.

I agree that people, myself included, feel somewhat nervous when encountering a police squad on the road. It may seem the officer is checking you out..and he/she very well maybe but the officer needs to do so….or how else are they going to enforce the laws? We cant focus are attention on one particular factor…such as vehicle type, age of driver, race of driver..(aka: profiling} If you think about it, what is it we are talking about? An officer looking at you and your vehicle. People need to relax and understand we are just doing our jobs.

I would argue that perhaps the average citizen does not do enough to “deter theft, vandalism and other sorts of criminal mischief” Lets remember it’s a partnership between law enforcement and the citizens that makes a difference. I agree that it’s the police officers job, but it ALSO the citizen’s job as well. Without cooperation, these crimes are not going to get solved and this lowers everyone’s quality of life. Do you lock your vehicle, garage/house every night? DO you have the serial numbers for all your belongings written down some place? Are you willing to go to court and testify against your neighbor or the local gang leader? I cant tell you how many times someone has reported a crime or given information on a particular crime or suspect but then states, “ I don’t want to get involved.” Well guess what? There is not much we can do without your support.

I have found that the best way to solve certain crimes, is to become partners with the citizens in the particular neighborhood. I have only two eyes but if I can get a group of people watching and listening for me…the odds are the problem will be solved. Of course, there are just going to be times when such crimes can’t be solved.

I have no experience in “random vehicle stops or road blocks". These are not practices in my particular jurisdiction. I don’t agree with them as well. Quotas are also not used in my particular jurisdiction but you are right about “Job performance reviews”. However, I have seen the other end of the problem. I have worked with officers that were lucky to write three tickets a year. Yes, I said three. Do you feel like your getting you moneys worth?.. How many tickets should an officer issue? What type of violation and crimes should an officer focus their attention and time on? It’s a tough issue with potential problems at both ends of the spectrum.

One more thing, about the broken taillight issue. A person just needs to get it fixed…no big deal. Remember, driving is not a “right” it’s a privilege that comes with certain expectations. One of which to maintain your vehicle in proper working order

In closing, I hope you don’t take my comments as an attack towards you or anyone else. I am just providing another perspective to the issue. Although this is a fishing forum (the best by the way) I feel good that we (members) feel open enough to talk about these issues…it helps give each other a different perspective . Happy holidays.

[ackotz]

Cliffy:
...you took the words right out my mouth! Some of these guys think it's their right to drive.

Listen people...it's not your right to drive, it's a privilige given to you by the state in which you are licensed in (after you agreed to abide by their laws) when you passed your driving exams...

Please...I'm a truck driver and one thing that peeves me off is when people drive in the number 1 lane ("fast lane") and tailgate to intimidate the person to move over and out of their way, it's as much everyone's right to drive, as long as they're doing the posted speed limits. When it says "Slower Traffic Keep Right", that doesn't mean you can tailgate (or bully) that person so you can go 80 mph in the posted 70 mph (for instance). You are actually committing a moving traffic violation, since it is "unlawful to tailgate" and it's also an "unsafe following distance" which is also another moving violation...execise some patience (which is a virtue) and pass the person legally when it is safe to do so...

[bigminnow]

As far as asking to see the gun. I grew up in WI and was told whenever i was pulled over that they didn't have to show me the gun. I respected that, and quite honestly every time ( 2 times in 15 years of driving) knew I was speeding anyways. so I didn't care. I will admit if i had to pull people over daily, I would become a litlle like those guys (Rigid) . As an officer you don't know what kind of dirtbag or physco is going to roll down their window when you walk up to their car for a speeding violation.
Just my 2 cents

[fishface5]

I work for am ambulance Co., and I would just like to say thanks to the Local, County, and state Officers who are always 1st in! I've seen them defuse explosive situations, literaly save lives, put thier own on the line and never even get a thanks, (much less a big tv story). All you guys in law enforcement, thank you very much. Cops have bad days too, it's a good thing paramedics and emts can't write tickets!

[Ears]

Cliffy, you could not have stated it better. And Fishface 5, thanks for the support and thanks for what you do to help us!

[Ed Carlson]

Our guys and galls in uniform do what needs to be done. I am dam glad they do, and I thank them for it!

"Nobody loves a lawyer, that's until ya need one that is."

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding
"ED on the RED"
[email protected]
><,sUMo,>

[Reel Inn]

But if yuor name is Bill J. it won't matter in SD, they let you go anyway, Speeding here in SD is way out of order, on the big road it is 80-90, on 2-lane maybe70-75, at least they are all passing me, and I run about the limit or about 5-over, very seldom go any faster than that.
For a DUI, I don't have to worry about that , I QUIT>

[Guest]

grab da net- I think it was Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy, that said "The best governed people are the least governed people" I think of that fondly every time a new batch of goverment regulations come out, even though I'm a "damyankee".

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DIRTBALL2

[upnorth]

I have had several run ins with the police. Everyone of them was when I was doing something I shouldn't have been doing. I can say I was treated with respect and dignity on all but one of them. That was an incident about 25 years ago and we were both being real jerks. I was drunk and obnoxious and he was just plain mean. Can't really say who was at fault, I believe we both were that time.

For the most part I don't think that the police are out to get anyone, or that they pick on certain people. I worked with one guy who got 2 DUIs in a week and all he could think of was if those d@mn cops would leave me alone. I told maybe if he quit breaking the law they would. I don't think he quit got it.

Some people think it is their right to do whatever they please and have no repercussions, that just ain't reality folks.

[kevfish]

do you think the court is going to take your word for it or the troopoers word for it if he does not lock it in on his radar. Locking it in on his radar has absolutely nothing to do with anything-so why ask to see it

[NINETOE]

Cliffy , my hat is off to you! Well said.

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" chaos , panic and disorder ... my work here is done. "
Upper Red Lake Area Association Member

[the big dipper]

["The Best Government is That Which Governs Least"]

In plain truth, "the people expect too much of the government." Under a proper organization, and even to a greater extent as things are, the wealth and happiness of the citizens could hardly be touched by the government, could neither be retarded or advanced, MEN must be "masters unto themselves," and not look to presidents and legislative bodies for aid. In this wide and naturally rich country, the best government indeed is "that which governs least."
One point, however, must not be forgotten - ought to be put before the eyes of the people every day; and that is, although government can do little "positive" good to the people, it may do an "immense deal of harm". And here is where the beauty of the Democratic principle comes in. Democracy could prevent all this harm. It would have no man's benefit achieved at the expense of his neighbors. It would have no one's rights infringed upon and that, after all, is pretty much the sum and substance of the prerogatives of government. How beautiful and harmonious a system! How it transcends all other codes, as the golden rule, in its brevity, transcends the ponderous tomes of philosophic lore! While mere politicians, in their narrow minds, are sweating and fuming with their complicated statutes, this one single rule, rationally construed and applied, is enough to form the starting point of all that is neccessary in government; TO MAKE NO MORE LAWS THAN THOSE USEFUL FOR PREVENTING A MAN OR BODY OF MEN FROM INFRINGING ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHER MEN.

July 26, 1847
Walt Whitman
editorial in " the Brooklyn Daily Eagle"

[TUMBLEWEED]

Some good reading here!! I have recently
had a couple experiences to question the
actual readings on the radar gun's screen
(my wife had the same speed/fine as mine). It
could be a just a freak thing, or maybe
it was for the higher fine??

Back to the original topic of Trooper Saturation. I think it is a good thing.
Some times, we need more eyes out there
for everyone's sake.

[Nozzlejocky]

There seems to have been quite a few posts from people who don't like PD officers. I think people need to stop and think about this a bit. Those officers are out there doing their jobs, dealing with some of the most pathetic people on the planet. I am a FF/Medic so I work with PD quite often. Let me tell you, they are humans just like you and I. They don't like to write citations any more than you and I like to pay fines. The paperwork it entails, along with follow-up court dates is mundane and overwhelming. They also don't make the laws, they just keep people within them. And when speeding laws are broken, people like me have to get involved, and too frequently, coroners and funeral directors. So, let me ask you this, would you rather have an officer give you a warning or citation, and let you proceed to your favorite lake, or have him/her knock on your door to tell your wife that you died while in a traffic accident due to speeding.

[beretta]

to all of you anti cop people....would your attitude toward cops change if one saved your life?? i was just wondering because thats basically what they are out there to do. they do their job just like you do yours.

[Guest]

Quotas are ILLEGAL to impose....bottom line! There is no such thing

[willowcat]

I've ben driving HWY 52 back and forth to work for over 10 years. I've only seen about 12 troopers in that time. I don't know if the Goveners picking money over the safety of the people has anything to do with it by cutting the number of troopers out on the road. But it has gotten out of hand down here. The average speed is 80 mph on this hwy and the speed laws don't get enforced. Once I goosed it up to 85,I was still getting passed,and that was in a construction zone. If some of those people knew they had children or grand kids in cars out there, perhaps they would think when they got behind the wheel. Hang up and drive!

[wasssit]

I get passed all the time on I-94 and i drive 75. Next car i get is something that can go 120 to 140 mph, that way i can cruise at 90 and 100 on I-94. Very few times do i see cops on the interstate.

[saddie]

Hey Say_der
You mean to tell me you have never met a good cop or did you just forget all those times. People choose to forget the good ones
and complain about the few bad ones. I'm sorry if I seem harsh I almost lost my Husband [Who is a police officer]he was on his way to a call and was hit head on by a truck he spent 10 days in the hospital and 9 months off work. I watched them do Cpr on him and he layed with tubes down his throat all for the call of duty to protect you and me. To this day he doesn't ask for sympathy or praise. He says its the job he decided to do and nobody owes him anything to me this makes him a true hero. I pray ever night he goes to work god will bring him home to my children and I. Sorry to vent just thought I'd give you something to think about. Yes I have also met bad cops but have chosen to forget them and give the good ones the respect they deserve

[say_der]

Saddie, my uncle is a good man, so is my friend from high school. But I've never been around them while on duty. I suppose the ones that responded when my neighbor was shot were OK. They seemed pretty indifferent towards the situation and very unsupportive. I was 20 years old at the time, living in an apartment away from home for the first time and I was a little freaked out about it.

I've seen a lot more bad come from cops than good. Those are my personal experiences. So no, I haven't seen much of the good they do personally.

[saddie]

One thing to remember is when we deal with trouble we call the cops and walk away. They have to stay there and deal with some real tuff things and some really awful people. If I were a cop I would be a bad one because I cant handle stupid people or drunks but they deal with this every day they put the uniform on. May god bless them.
Nobody likes a cop till they need one.

Say_der hope someday you'll met the kind of officers I know.