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jonny_redhorse

states ash trees in trouble?

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heads up article appeared in the states news papers sunday(Hibbing here)and others in regard to a new invasive beetle that certainly could do our forests some damage...from china called "the emerald ash borer"...not good for sure considering the vast amount of ash in the lowlands throughout minnesota.... here's some info...jonny

http://www.majestictreecare.com/Majestic_main/WebLinks/FactSheets/EmeraldAshB.html

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And yet we still allow the movement of trees and tree products form state to state and country to country. I guess we didn't learn enough when we imported Dutch Elm disease. What's worse is the guys moving firewood... that is how this disease will really jump area to area.

I don't know if the state has done any studies on the 'overwintering' of the Emerald Ash borer... let's hope it can be kept in check, much like the gypsy moths... with these cold temps...

Woodbury, along with many other suburbs have removed Ash from it's approved list of trees that may be planted to fulfill tree requirements on a project, or as boulevard trees. Problem is, after 25 years of planting them, it's a dime late and a dollar short. If this hits, it will blemish cities even worse than the Elm losses of the 70's and early 80's.

Good Luck!

Ken

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I read in Outdoor News aboot a month ago that bringing your own firewood to state parks will no longer be allowed because of this darn bug. Shame too cuz firewood for sale at the parks is outragous price for a small bundle, and I like a big fire.

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I've read that Wisconsin and Illinois state parks won't let you bring your own wood. Spose the DNR would frown of a big fire of pallets?

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My take from a firewood producer.

It's like anything else, if you had the concious (which most are) supplier, you're okay, the disease will not spread that way.

It's the uneducated person, that knows a buddy who's uncle that has some land somewhere that wants to get rid of some "dying" trees that cause the problem.

I only deal in oak wood.

I get my oak from trees that have died from oak wilt, which, once the tree is dead, is no longer "contagious", it's the ones around that dead tree that are now producing the disease. At least that's what I've been told by the U of M.

I will not hold blame back from all firewood producers though, because some are land clearing guys, and anything that's fallen, is turned into firewood.

What I would believe would be an even bigger issue now, is the amount of wood that's turned into mulch.

Head north on Hwy 65 sometime, just north of East Bethel, and look at the mulch producing operation. Not to blame those guys (know them personally) but if you looked at the amount of trees and product sitting there, you would have to throw some concern there as well.

I "used" to know the guy that supplied the state with it's wood. I say "used" because he was someone that I talked with when I first got into firewood 10 years ago, and haven't talked with him for about 4-5 years now, so I'm not sure if he's still got the contract or not.

I'm sure the state now looks at it as another way to have a customer by the you-know-whats, in order to make more money for itself. It doesn't hurt to be able to use the excuse that we want to save our forests from outside infestations.

If that was the case, then it should be like smoking, ban all wood all together. If small fires like a camp fire are going to ruin all the forests, then what about the landclearing / forestry guys that have piles burning for days?? If it's okay for the forestry guys, then it comes full circle for the firewood guys that "should" be professional as well, knowing what it is that they're producing.

Sorry about the rant......

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I've been in Urban FOrestry for about 6yrs now and the company I used to work for is all across North America and is a leader in research and treatments on insects and disease. They have known about Emerald Ash Borer (EAB) for at least 5 years. In fact my old company has the federal contract to remove trees, test for the insect, do surveys to find spread and to test insecticides to protect trees. The only thing that hasn't worked is the treatments. Nothing on the market (and legal) has worked at preventing damage.

What has worked is keeping people smart and worried. EAB hasn't come further west of the chicago area in almost 3 years. Thats amazing. The insect can only move about a 1/2 mile on its own so the only way for it to spread in great distances is by firewood.

Lwnmwnman, it is illegal to have or transport red oak firewood if it still has the bark attached. Just because the tree is dead does not make it less contagious. The disease survives year to year on the dead trees as long as there is an environment for the fungus to grow. Once the logs have been de-barked there is little threat of the fungus growing. Also, grinding up the wood into mulch is a perfectly acceptable way of disposing of infected wood material. The main concern with Oak wilt is the fungus growing under the bark of dead trees. On Elms, the beetle that transmits dutch elm disease lays eggs under the bark of the elms, so debarking those trees also prevents the spread of that disease. Although having a large pile of logs is not a great idea, but if the bark is loose or dislodged it will not allow development.

Yes the decision to only allow state provided firewood in state parks is a bit of a financial benefit to the state parks, but its worth it to protect the forest resources that we have in this state.

Minnesota has the largest population of native ash trees in the US. Not the little ones planted on every boulevard that used to have an Elm in the '70's but the native trees that are growing in areas around Lake Minnetonka (biggest one I've ever seen is on Crystal Bay) and up north in the deciduous forests. If the EAB reached MN there would be a crisis like never before. The only solution so far is to cut down every ash tree within a 1 mile radius of the infestation.

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I guess I should clarify my post.

I only take down the trees where the bark is already falling off.

By the time I get it to the point of firewood, there's no bark left.

It's one reason my customers keep coming back to me year after year, my wood is very clean.

Anyways, it's another reason that I stopped having wood hauled in from tree guys, you never knew what you would have dropped off in the lot.

The company that I mentioned in my earlier post, about the mulch, they were good about only hauling in oak, but other guys would try to haul me all sorts of wood, trying to say they were selling me oak logs.

It wasn't always possible to be home, since they'd usually haul me a load while I'm out mowing in the summer, I split all my wood in the winter.

Anyways, I always find it interesting what a new customer has left over as wood that they were sold from a previous supplier. I've seen pallet wood, pine that was supposed to be oak, I've even seen where a supplier had mixed in some green treated 4x4s.

Sorry to get off topic.

To get back ON topic, I take it that since it's a borer, that it'll do more damage than the Forest Tent catapillars did..... oh...... 5-6 years ago??

I remember heading up to Red Lake in the summer, and there were no leaves on the trees for miles and miles and miles.

Even some of the properties that I did around Stillwater / Forest Lake had some of the worms on them, but a quick spray (from licensed people, don't worry) and the threat was stopped.

I agree with the original poster though, that when you get out in Mother's Forest Floor, no one could possibly treat all those.

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Sounds like you're doing the right things and thats what makes a reputable dealer. I am a Tree Inspector for Minnesota and the city that I work in. That means I find and mark the infected trees. Another part of this duty is to find firewood piles that are elm or oak. If they have bark on we have a right to take it. It sucks, and we have done it. The biggest thing is educating the public. As a firewood supplier I encourage you to hand out info about proper firewood handling with your orders. I'm sure you could get some from the UofM.

Tent catapillars aren't too bad of a pest other than the defoliate the whole area. I bet less than 10% of the damaged trees had any permanant damage let alone death. We have lots of those type of "cosmetic damage" problems. SOme we treat, some we let go.

The hope for EAB is that they will find some sort of preventative or a way to kill it and then we can control it. The ash tree has been taken out of the woods and placed in front yards and bouilevards everywhere. This same scenario happened with the white birch. It has a pest called the Bronze Birch borer. Its not nearly as rampant, but its just about everywhere and will kill trees too. Only difference is we have ways to kill it and prevent its spread. HOpefully we can find a similar treatment. As of now the product used on BBB is not effective on the EAB.

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Quote:

Sounds like you're doing the right things and thats what makes a reputable dealer. I am a Tree Inspector for Minnesota and the city that I work in. That means I find and mark the infected trees. Another part of this duty is to find firewood piles that are elm or oak. If they have bark on we have a right to take it. It sucks, and we have done it. The biggest thing is educating the public. As a firewood supplier I encourage you to hand out info about proper firewood handling with your orders. I'm sure you could get some from the UofM.

Tent catapillars aren't too bad of a pest other than the defoliate the whole area. I bet less than 10% of the damaged trees had any permanant damage let alone death. We have lots of those type of "cosmetic damage" problems. SOme we treat, some we let go.

The hope for EAB is that they will find some sort of preventative or a way to kill it and then we can control it. The ash tree has been taken out of the woods and placed in front yards and bouilevards everywhere. This same scenario happened with the white birch. It has a pest called the Bronze Birch borer. Its not nearly as rampant, but its just about everywhere and will kill trees too. Only difference is we have ways to kill it and prevent its spread. HOpefully we can find a similar treatment. As of now the product used on BBB is not effective on the EAB.


Again, like so many other issues that we've had in the past with dealing with firewood, whether we get a permit from the MN DNR to clear out some on Carlos Avery, or misinformation that clients have been given from others....

Powerstroke -

In your last paragraph, you state that hopefully something can be found for EAB so that it can be controlled or killed, that the pesticide for BBB doesn't work for EAB, yet the original post, which looks like an informational flyer from another tree company, says that what's used on BBB is working on EAB......

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I stand corrected. I was referring a specific product name, but apparently they both have the same active ingredient.

After doing quite a bit of reading from Michigan and Indiana it looks like there are 2 products out there that can be used. Depending on the size of the tree they should be used seperately and together. They can be used even if the tree is currently infected. They are very expensive so its not meant to be something everybody should do just cause they have an ash tree.

One thing I don't like about the ad for the tree company is they say an average joe can't apply the pesticide. Thats not true. They just can't buy it in bulk like a commercial applicator can. These products are available at a lawn and garden store and can be applied properly by an intelligent person. Don't get caught by the hype. I guess the lesson is do your research and talk to qualified professionals before you make decisions about applying chemicals to your property.

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I know this is an old thread, but I thought I'd bring an update in.

Minnesota Department of Agriculture was by on Monday afternoon. They're out and about inspecting firewood dealers. They took a survey, asking things like what type of wood is turned into firewood, where the firewood is harvested from, where it's delivered to, pretty much the run down.

Anyways, they're mostly concerned with Gypsy Moth and Emerald Ash Borer. Oak wilt was on the list, but where I'm getting it from, and where I deliver it to, I'm not taking it, nor crossing areas that aren't already infected, so I'm okay.

The inspector / interviewer looked over the operation, both the logs that are ready to be split, and the pile that's already been split.

He said they're checking on operations, whether they sell 5 cord of wood / year, or 2,000 cord of wood / year.

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Of course nobody likes to be inspected, but I know I am happy that they are out there doing this. The guys like you, that run a clean operation and know the rules have nothing to worry about and that makes me feel better. They tell us they are spending our money on inspections and monitoring so at least we can see that they are out there opunding the ground putting our taxes to good use.

Glad to hear you had no problems.

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Yeah... he said you'd be surprised at the amount of guys that get wood hauled in from 150-200 miles away, stuff that paper mills / loggers don't have any use for.

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you'd also be surprised at the amount of people who have no clue aboot all the invasive species that are going around and will verbally attack you for even being on their property trying to inspect trees, or wood piles. I was a tree inspector for st. paul for 5 years and this summer i will be working with the Dept of Ag in their Gypsy moth survey. for st. paul we were supposed to go and check every woodpile we saw for elm, and oak that was not debarked or completely covered.

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Quote:

you'd also be surprised at the amount of people who have no clue aboot all the invasive species that are going around and will verbally attack you for even being on their property trying to inspect trees, or wood piles. I was a tree inspector for st. paul for 5 years and this summer i will be working with the Dept of Ag in their Gypsy moth survey. for st. paul we were supposed to go and check every woodpile we saw for elm, and oak that was not debarked or completely covered.


Yeah, the gentleman that was by the other day, he was wondering about some wood piles (logs) that he'd seen about a mile from my house.

I told him he had a good eye, I'll drive that road 4-5 times / day by the time all the errands get done, and I've never even noticed the pile.....

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I've noticed on the state park part of the DNR Web site that there is now a preference for not bringing your own wood to the campgrounds. It can't be long before it's banned.

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I beleive it is banned already in most if not all state parks. OK by me. The parks would be a great loss if the trees were gone.

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What sucks is that the wood the state parks sells is either A) softwood so it burns fast or B) its wet so you have a hard time getting it going. Half the fun of camping is a nice fire in the evening. If they really want people to burn their crappy wood then they should sell it cheap. Then when they ban you bringing in your own wood it turns the nice rangers into 'wood cops' and the hardass rangers have a reason to be hardasses!!! We had the same experience when they 'tightened up' the dog regulations a few years back.

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I have a coworker that has 3 elm trees that I can cut up and have for firewood. He lives in Presscot, WI and I am in Cottage Grove, MN. Can I legally bring this wood into MN if I take the bark off?

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you will be fine for transporting it as long as ALL the bark has been removed. whcih most of the time on Elm just isnt worth the trouble.

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What Bobb-o said, plus Elm isn't the greatest for burning in a fireplace if you are looking for 'easily' split dried out wood.

IMO, Elm takes longer to dry out, and it doesn't burn nice at all, but it could also just come down to the fact that I sell Oak.

You know, sort of like a Dodge / Ford / Chevy debate, so take my comment for what it's worth.

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elm does take forever to dry out, and most of the time when it does it twists and cracks. It is also near impossible to split without a mechanical splitter, so all the wood you have is gonna be full of splinters, however i do feel it burns at a pretty good temp almost on par with oak, but due to what all is needed to prepare it for burning (unless you have a dead debarked one standing in your backyard that you just cut down) its sort of a waste of time.

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American elm is tough to split, granted. Red elm on the other hand splits nice, and is a truly beautiful wood for building furniture. It works well, and has awesome colors and grains! Unfortunately most has died, I do have some red elm lumber and some logs to yet saw.

The american elm is nick named PI$$ Elm for a reason.

On another note, Menards has been selling barked ash from Illinoise under the name "Taylors firewood" Unfortunately it is suspected to have emerald ash borers in it, and has been sold in MN, WI, SD, ND, MO, maybe other states. Lets see, wide distribution, I guess I'm gonna start planting trees to replace my ash trees. It's only a matter of time frown.giffrown.gif

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Well its dead, free, and I own a spliter. It is hard to find oak and birch that is free to cut and take. Unless someone on here is willing to share, so I try and get firewood where I can. I also don't mind spending the time cutting and splitting. (My back does but I don't) Thanks for the info guys!!!!

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Well its dead, free, and I own a spliter. It is hard to find oak and birch that is free to cut and take. Unless someone on here is willing to share, so I try and get firewood where I can. I also don't mind spending the time cutting and splitting. (My back does but I don't) Thanks for the info guys!!!!


I agree... I get all my oak free as well. Just wanted to give you the heads up, so you didn't cut the tree down, thinking you're good as gold, just to discover the work.

If you don't mind, I don't mind... grin.gif

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