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corded and cordless and air

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They all have their place, but can you really match 20A corded and air power, like a good old Milwaukee Magnum or Sawzall, with the 24v and 36v? I'm not going to spend the money to find out right now, but I gotta know. I'm nursing a serious air tool jones right now, but then someone goes and says they broke open a bunch of axle bolts with a cordless impact driver? My first reaction is "no way". My second reaction is "my 18v cordless is wimpy". Whats going on in the world of cordless?

The permanent fish house gets put together with cordless on every trip to the lake, I can tell you that!

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They all have their place, but can you really match 20A corded and air power, like a good old Milwaukee Magnum or Sawzall, with the 24v and 36v? I'm not going to spend the money to find out right now, but I gotta know. I'm nursing a serious air tool jones right now, but then someone goes and says they broke open a bunch of axle bolts with a cordless impact driver? My first reaction is "no way". My second reaction is "my 18v cordless is wimpy". Whats going on in the world of cordless?

The permanent fish house gets put together with cordless on every trip to the lake, I can tell you that!


Excellent question. The world of Cordless has became much more exciting the last 2 years. Last year was the first time that Cordless tools accounted for more sales than the corded. The obvious reason is portability. But the new Li_On batteries have changed the entire cordless industry forever! Milwaukee started the revolution with the 28Volt. This battery was in development for 7 years before finally being launched at the World of Concrete 2 years ago. The V28 truly provides corded performance in a cordless tool. DeWalt and Bosch have since launched 36V's but to this day cannot match the performance, runtime, or warranty provided by the Milwaukee. I posted earlier that I used the 28V Milwaukee Right angle drill (electrician's staple) to drill ice holes. This machine punched 29 holes through 9 inches of ice with a 7" strikemaster auger on a single charge. I'm not even sure how sharp the blade was on this, since it was a very old hand auger. Milwaukee's battery is patented and cannot be touched by the competition. Milwaukee uses a Lithium Maganese battery which is much different to DeWalts and Makita's Lithium Cobalt. Milwaukee warranties their battery for 5 years or 2000 charges which also cannot be touched by the others. They only offer a 1 year. I think a 1 year warranty on a product that costs so much more is a load of talk. If I were to have to pay a 20% premium on a tool, I would expect it to last much longer. Milwuakee's battery is also a smart battery with built in computer chips. Now instead of the charger just charging the battery, The battery interfaces with the charger. It tells the charger which cells are of lower voltage and quickly brings them back to a level voltage and then continues to charge the rest in an even level. It also remembers the first day it was charged which is the day your warranty begins(no longer do you have to save receipts). It also remembers the # of charges, the highest temp. the battery reached and at what day and time it happened. No other battery on the market can do this. Milwuakee's battery is also able to be charged at a much broader temp range. You can charge the V series batteries from 14* up to 149* without and problems. Whereas the competition can only do it from 50* up to 105*. And with MN winters you better be keeping the "other's" batteries inside at night. As far as the sawzall goes, the stroke length and Stroke's per minute are the same as the Super Sawzall. You have to try them to believe it!

Nate

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Hello Nate,

I think technology is great and has made many advancements. That being said, I would put up "X brand" against Milwaukee to see. I run a 12v drill that I would compare to a 18v Mil or 18v DeWalt..

I have some experience with "MW" and have not been impressed.

(Speaking of Cordless Tools)

Equal charge of each cell, it is not new tech. I can name a few MFG that have equalizing chargers I, personally will not buy "Milwuakee" products (Sawzall, drill/driver, hammer drill)

Nate, typing is emotionless, so this is just opinion/experience.

river-rat4

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Air will win hands down... Keep in mind it takes electricity to run air tools. Compressed air is expensive, but is very versatile. Cordless impacts have come a long way, but how many tire shops have you seen using cordless impact tools for tires...

river-rat4

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I've used a 24 volt Bosch set for a 5/6 years, I bought it mainly for the circular saw, It Rock's, The recip has it's place but is a battery eater, The drill will burn out if you try to push it with a low battery, I smoked the the first one right after I bought it, melted it actully. I have a Makita 9.9 angle drill that won't wear out along with a 9.9 regular drill and the 9.9 trim saw, neat saw if you have a use for it. Also a worn out PC 12V, that lasted a long time. That said, you still have to have a electric drill motor, they spin faster and with a more consitant power curve, Kreg recomends that you use one with the jig and I've found that true. A buddy of mine is now running a 12 or 14 Makita drill/driver and that's my next cordless, It's really nice. Depends on what you do, for a homeowner I think the hot ticket would be the 18V Bosch Lith/ion saw/drill kit, but then I am a Bosch junky. 24's and up are great IF you need that portable power but not many people need the weight that comes with them, use that 24+ volt drill for a couple hour's and the 9.9 makes you smile. A lot. grin.gifgrin.gif If you are in an industry that uses air tools, thats the way to go.

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Hello Nate,

I think technology is great and has made many advancements. That being said, I would put up "X brand" against Milwaukee to see. I run a 12v drill that I would compare to a 18v Mil or 18v DeWalt..

I have some experience with "MW" and have not been impressed.

(Speaking of Cordless Tools)

Equal charge of each cell, it is not new tech. I can name a few MFG that have equalizing chargers I, personally will not buy "Milwuakee" products (Sawzall, drill/driver, hammer drill)

Nate, typing is emotionless, so this is just opinion/experience.

river-rat4


River-rat. I wrote in my post about the technology of the battery. This is the first time in the power tool industry where the BATTERY tells the charger what to do. (interfaces) Instead of the charger just charging all the cells. As far as brand X is concerned I would love to see any 12V compare to a Milwaukee 18V or a DeWalt 18V. When you say comparing these 2, what are you comparing? Runtime, torque, speed? I have never seen any 12 compare with an 18, and I have been working in this industry for 10 years. Also, why were you unimpressed with Milwaukee? I know everyone has their favorites and thats cool. I'm just curious which tools you didn't like and why.

Nate

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but then someone goes and says they broke open a bunch of axle bolts with a cordless impact driver? My first reaction is "no way". My second reaction is "my 18v cordless is wimpy".


Well, that was me that said that. The trailer is over 7 years old and the axle needed to be replaced. After fighting with the nuts on the U bolts, and fearing another broken hand, breaking a wrench or parts, I pick up a cheap set of deep well impact sockets. As I stated in the other post, the 28V impact wrench was impacting the nuts all the way off, all 8. Some of them Barely budged with the hand wrench, but the driver broke them loose and drove them off.

I was pretty impressed with the tool. I would never, EVER say that it would replace an air tool. No way, but it does have some stones to do some of the things I've asked it to do. One down fall of the tool is the weight. The impact wrench is a bear! What does it weight, 40 lbs? Not really, but it sure seems that way sometimes. To me, it's not uncomfortable, but you sure notice the beefy beef.

Anyway, that's about all I have to say about that. Don't worry, I didn't take what you said as an insult, I just wanted to go a little more in depth with my experience. I haven't regreted spending the $$ on this set one bit!

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but then someone goes and says they broke open a bunch of axle bolts with a cordless impact driver? My first reaction is "no way". My second reaction is "my 18v cordless is wimpy".


Well, that was me that said that. The trailer is over 7 years old and the axle needed to be replaced. After fighting with the nuts on the U bolts, and fearing another broken hand, breaking a wrench or parts, I pick up a cheap set of deep well impact sockets. As I stated in the other post, the 28V impact wrench was impacting the nuts all the way off, all 8. Some of them Barely budged with the hand wrench, but the driver broke them loose and drove them off.

I was pretty impressed with the tool. I would never, EVER say that it would replace an air tool. No way, but it does have some stones to do some of the things I've asked it to do. One down fall of the tool is the weight. The impact wrench is a bear! What does it weight, 40 lbs? Not really, but it sure seems that way sometimes. To me, it's not uncomfortable, but you sure notice the beefy beef.

Anyway, that's about all I have to say about that. Don't worry, I didn't take what you said as an insult, I just wanted to go a little more in depth with my experience. I haven't regreted spending the $$ on this set one bit!


The 28V Milwaukee impact is heavy. It weighs 8.9 lbs. Maninly due to the large motor and heavy anvil in the unit. It obviously needs both to generate the 325 ft/lbs. of torque. However if you compare it to the 18V Ni-Cd impact, it weighs 9.0 lbs. and generates 240 ft/lbs. of torque. The 28V has more power with less weight. It is a brute but try and get that power from a compact lightweight tool.

Nate

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Nate,

I have not been on this thread to see the comments that you made.

Hilti 12 volt vs. MW 18 volt. Torque, run time, speed (I am not concerned about).

MW/DeWalt play games. 18 volts, so. It is all about the AMPS. 18 volts does not mean much. Case in point- You get zapped by an outlet (for some strange reason) 110 volt, it feels not so good. That outlet was probably just a household 15 or 20 AMP circuit. Now if you get stung by the 50 AMP 220 volt compressor outlet, I hope not to be giving you CPR. (Yes 110 vs. 220 volt, but the volts are not the problem). I realize that we are talking about cordless, not electrically driven tools, but AMPS are AMPS. (Not getting into 3 phase power)

Hilti (Older model 2001) 12 volt Drill/Driver is 3.0 AMP tool. (I am not positive but the newer 12 volt models are 3.5 AMPS)

MW/DeWalt do not give you the AMPS. For instance, I had a Bosch 24 volt Hammer Drill. The AMPS were 1.7 AMPS. What do you think that means? Why 24v @1.7A, vs. Hilti 12v @3.0A.

The MW tools that I have referred to were the 12v Drill/Driver and 24v Sawzall. Not impressed with runtime or torque .

Have drill, will travel wink.gif

I use the tools commercially, not all will so base my comments accordingly.

river-rat4

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Nate,

I have not been on this thread to see the comments that you made.

Hilti 12 volt vs. MW 18 volt. Torque, run time, speed (I am not concerned about).

MW/DeWalt play games. 18 volts, so. It is all about the AMPS. 18 volts does not mean much. Case in point- You get zapped by an outlet (for some strange reason) 110 volt, it feels not so good. That outlet was probably just a household 15 or 20 AMP circuit. Now if you get stung by the 50 AMP 220 volt compressor outlet, I hope not to be giving you CPR. (Yes 110 vs. 220 volt, but the volts are not the problem). I realize that we are talking about cordless, not electrically driven tools, but AMPS are AMPS. (Not getting into 3 phase power)

Hilti (Older model 2001) 12 volt Drill/Driver is 3.0 AMP tool. (I am not positive but the newer 12 volt models are 3.5 AMPS)

MW/DeWalt do not give you the AMPS. For instance, I had a Bosch 24 volt Hammer Drill. The AMPS were 1.7 AMPS. What do you think that means? Why 24v @1.7A, vs. Hilti 12v @3.0A.

The MW tools that I have referred to were the 12v Drill/Driver and 24v Sawzall. Not impressed with runtime or torque .

Have drill, will travel
wink.gif

I use the tools commercially, not all will so base my comments accordingly.

river-rat4


Before I respond, are you referring to Amps or Amp hours?

I'll answer accordingly.

Nate

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Nate,

I have not been on this thread to see the comments that you made.

Hilti 12 volt vs. MW 18 volt. Torque, run time, speed (I am not concerned about).

MW/DeWalt play games. 18 volts, so. It is all about the AMPS. 18 volts does not mean much. Case in point- You get zapped by an outlet (for some strange reason) 110 volt, it feels not so good. That outlet was probably just a household 15 or 20 AMP circuit. Now if you get stung by the 50 AMP 220 volt compressor outlet, I hope not to be giving you CPR. (Yes 110 vs. 220 volt, but the volts are not the problem). I realize that we are talking about cordless, not electrically driven tools, but AMPS are AMPS. (Not getting into 3 phase power)

Hilti (Older model 2001) 12 volt Drill/Driver is 3.0 AMP tool. (I am not positive but the newer 12 volt models are 3.5 AMPS)

MW/DeWalt do not give you the AMPS. For instance, I had a Bosch 24 volt Hammer Drill. The AMPS were 1.7 AMPS. What do you think that means? Why 24v @1.7A, vs. Hilti 12v @3.0A.

The MW tools that I have referred to were the 12v Drill/Driver and 24v Sawzall. Not impressed with runtime or torque .

Have drill, will travel
wink.gif

I use the tools commercially, not all will so base my comments accordingly.

river-rat4


Since you haven't responded I thought I would go ahead and correct you. We are talking cordless tools so Amps mean nothing. What are you talking about saying MW and DeWalt play games. So you are not concerned with torque, speed, or run-time? What else is there when comparing cordless drills? Nothing. That is what you compare. If you are referring to Amp hours then this is how it goes. THe higher the Amp hour the longer the runtime. Makita, Panasonic, and some others offer NiMH batteries(Nickel Metal Hydride). These batteries offer higher amp hours which give a longer runtime than the NiCd batteries of the same voltage would. But there is a trade off. NiMH batteries cannot be charged as many times as a NiCd battery can. The NiCd simply has longer life and provides more charge cycles. Hilti does offer their 12 volt in NiCd and NiMH. I'm guessing you have the NiMH. It has a 3.5amp hour battery.(new model) However being that a battery has a higher amp hour battery, it does not give the drill any more power (torque, speed). It will offer a longer runtime though. But which is the benefit, longer runtime per cycle or more charge cycles in life of the battery? It is just a matter of which ever you prefer. If NiMH batteries are superior to NiCd's then why wouldn't two of the largest power tool manufacturers use them. DeWalt doesn't and they are by far the largest.

As far as your bosch 24v hammerdrill (I'm guessing you have the anialater) vs your 12 volt hilti. The bosch has a NiCd battery and your hilti has a NiMh. So, your hilti does not have more power. Just longer runtime vs other 12v NiCd's.

Milwaukee's 12V drill- I'm not surprised that you are not impressed. Milwaukee doesn't make their 12V in a Lok-Tor which is their H.D. model. If you read anything about the drill,you will see that it is a compact model. It comes with a 1.3Amp hour NiCd battery. This drill is for medium duty all day use. Medium duty meaning drilling small holes or running smaller dia. screws. It only has 280 In/lbs of torque.

As far as the 24 V sawzall is concerned, Milwaukee does not and has not ever made a 24V of anything. They do however make the 28V LiOn. LiOn batteries have the longest runtime. Even though they may have a 3.0 amp hour battery. I can't beleieve you wouldn't be impressed with the 28V sawzall. It has the longest runtime on the market and the longest stroke length and strokes per minute on the market. DeWalt's 36V does have the same stroke length and strokes per minute as the Milwaukee 28 but it is independently proven that it cannot match runtime.

Case Closed

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WOW,

You seem to do some research. I made a error, it was the 18v MW Sawzall that I was referring to.

I was talking AMP hours.

As far as not replying, I spend my time outdoors when I can. Not as much time on the computer.

I would say that two of the largest selling brands just might do some heavy marketing also. Using NiMH, I would say that cost of MFG can account for many reasons. Take into account that Hilti 12v drill/driver would run $400.00. What homeowner would spend that for a cordless drill?

I can only comment on what I use and trust. I am not into reading up on all products, only the ones I am considering purchasing for my application.

I am not going to debat you, you are much smarter.

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WOW,

You seem to do some research. I made a error, it was the 18v MW Sawzall that I was referring to.

I was talking AMP hours.

As far as not replying, I spend my time outdoors when I can. Not as much time on the computer.

I would say that two of the largest selling brands just might do some heavy marketing also. Using NiMH, I would say that cost of MFG can account for many reasons. Take into account that Hilti 12v drill/driver would run $400.00. What homeowner would spend that for a cordless drill?

I can only comment on what I use and trust. I am not into reading up on all products, only the ones I am considering purchasing for my application.

I am not going to debat you, you are much smarter.


You are right about homeowners spending a lot of money on premium tools. I think that homeowners that don't use their tools everyday are wasting their money. But I think you would be surprised how many homeowners are buying expensive power tools theese days. I think that many have the thinking that they need to buy the best no matter how much they will actually use them.

As far as the NiMh batteries are concerned, if Lithium were not available, that would be the one that I would prefer.

Nate

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