Rock Bass

[KJS]

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As a former fisheries biologist who thinks just about all fish all cool if they are in their native environment. (unlike Carp) What makes so many of you hate Rock Bass when they are native to most lakes. They may not be the best fish to eat but some of you sound like they are the worst animal to inhabit the earth. Lighten-up

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No, eelpout must be the worst!! I haven't caught one yet, but I finally looked at a picture on the internet, to prepare myself in-case one should come through the hole, I now know what to expect, but I think I may just have to cut my line!!! Are carp worse looking than an eelpout??

I'm a 32 year old female preparing myself for the uglies and need to now how they react when you bring them through the hole (like for eelpout are they going to try and wrap themselves around your arm, I've heard people say dogfish make squeaky noises, etc), so I'm prepared. I remember when I wasn't prepared to catch my first bull-head, it wasn't pretty!!!

[311Hemi]

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You can think what you want but they are a scourge of our waters and have done plenty to ruin our walleye and brook trout fisheries here and they never WERE a local species to here.

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Not that I care....but where were they introduced from? Just curious because you seem to know.

U of M doc online shows them being native to and present today in MN. Can do a search for "Fishes of Minnesota" to see what I was looking at. USGS site does also...

[Minnetonka]

I am curious as to what people think makes one fish a "Scourge" and other fish are good. Do the have to be pretty to look at? Good to eat? Native to the waters? I am especially interested in the opinions of what my old advisor Dr. Holt used to call "Bar-Stool Biologist"

PS: One of the fish that is referred to as ugly is an Eel Pout which is a fresh water cod, which is one of the best tasting fish.

[sdstate]

Wow trapperdirk you really have everything figured out. I am currently going to school for the exact same knowledge that you have (fisheries biology). I am a senior and have heard some great explanations of fisheries systems, but yours really takes the cake. As mentioned before, Rock Bass feed exclusively on crayfish and macroinvertebrates (bugs). So in theory the walleyes and rock bass should not compete against eachother. Actually i would think young of the year rock bass would make a great meal for a walleye. But thats just going by the books, you know written by Doctors and such. Thanks I feel better. ps I could mention something to my professors and I am sure they would love for you to come down and give a guest lecture.

[anyfishwilldo]

No, eelpout must be the worst!! I haven't caught one yet, but I finally looked at a picture on the internet, to prepare myself in-case one should come through the hole, I now know what to expect, but I think I may just have to cut my line!!! Are carp worse looking than an eelpout??

I'm a 32 year old female preparing myself for the uglies and need to now how they react when you bring them through the hole (like for eelpout are they going to try and wrap themselves around your arm, I've heard people say dogfish make squeaky noises, etc), so I'm prepared. I remember when I wasn't prepared to catch my first bull-head, it wasn't pretty!!!

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Welcome to the wonderful world of ice fishing. You can't call yourself a true ice fisherperson until you watch one crawl out the hole, then wrap itself around your arm. Once you get it unhooked, then comes the fun process of untangling all of the lines, because that is what pout seem to do. After that is al done you can have the pleasure of eating the fine fish.

[igotem]

I wouldn't say they feed "exclusively" on crayfish and bugs. I've caught plenty of Rock Bass on fatheads and crawlers and leeches and crankbaits and spinnerbaits and pretty much everything else you drop in the water.

Oh yeah, the few I've eaten I couldn't tell the difference between them and the other panfish they were mixed in with.

[Jackpine Rob]

Careful there SD.

Funny thing about the outdoors, and the management of species and systems:

Those who are out there and dealing with things on a daily basis - and with hands-on experience, often know a thing or two that the perfessers and others don't quite get.

From my own meager experience, rock bass are voracious feeders, tending to hit most anything they come in contact with when hungry. Minnows, worms, spinners, crankbaits, leeches.... In the real world, crayfish are only part of the diet.

The system which TrapperDirk is suggesting - with brookies and such, is a little different animal than the watersheds most Minnesota guys are used to dealing with. For someone in the tundra known as SoDak, the biology of that type of system is probably pretty foreign.

One thing we do know for darn sure is that introduction of non-native species to watersheds can have dramatic and most often unwanted consequences. The Canucks are greatly concerned about the spread of smallmouth bass, and have some data out there regarding the effect of smallmouths on lake trout populations. Funny isn't it? Considering the bass is generally thought of as a shallow water critter and the laker is a deep water inhabitant...

I have personally witnessed several wonderful little walleye lakes up in NE Minnesota absolutely wrecked by the introduction of sunfish. It is maddening, and more than a little heartbreaking. Introduced by bait buckets or whatever, the effect is astonishing.

But of course, we all know that sunnies and walleyes don't compete for food, eh?

[sdstate]

Ok i guess this is my point. People have there own opinions about which fish they like and dislike. There are people up on Red Lake that swore at the walleyes for coming back because they are now competing with the crappies. Me personally, I love catching the big slabs but the walleyes are also a blast to. Its not like the rock bass is a non native species, like the grass carp, common carp, or big head carp. I guess that nice thing about being a student is that we do get to spend a lot of time in the field (like 250 days a year) plus most of the people in this field enjoy to hunt and fish. So most of the time the people in our profession know what is going on. So much of the management these days is people management. It is unfortunate that game and fish management has become so political.

[Minnetonka]

SD state put it well. Those of you who seem to have an anti-science stance don't get the fact that most people go into these professions because they have a passion for the outdoors. I am no longer a practicing fisheries biologist, but when I was, I was "in the field" i.e. on the water 5 days a week and 7 months out of a year. We don't end up with knowledge in books by "professors" with pointy heads sitting in labs dreaming things up, but by being out in the woods and water studying the animals that we all find so interesting. I love to sit at a bar with a beer and speculate as much as anyone else, but when you want a real answer, turn to someone who studies these things for a living.

[igotem]

Well said Minnetonka.

[trapperdirk]

What and being a guide and a trapper and growing up around the bush and it's lakes does not constitute making a living from it Minetonka .? You collect your paycheck regardless of what happens to our fisheries or critters now don't you .? Where is your so called very personal vested interest to put food on the table as your paycheque is always there while for many the loss of a fishery or animal etc. is the true sense of the word a loss of livelyhood .

Please don't preach at me the sanctity of your professed profession as your a long ways away from having true knowledge that can be only gained by being a hands on farmer of our resources and that does not constitute a 9-5 job for a meagre 5 days a week and much of the time spent behind a desk or out and about on nice sunny days .

And to answer the student of biology,,, speaking at one of your seminars would not be my first nor would taking on a professor of biology when it comes to wildlife issues .

Trust me as a trapper we deal with them on a very regular basis and often even help them out at Universities and Colleges by supplying them with carcasses etc so you have something more to look at other than a picture in a book and just your own written words of what rockbass ONLY FEED ON should be a great indicator of what you are taught and much of what you don't know . I guess thats well taught prof theory all blown to h3ll and I haven't even begun yet lad . LOL

Biology is a good knowledge to have but my textbook is not found on a desk but more so the tracks left in the snow and those same signs are found when you look at many water ways as a way of life and carrying a PHD is just a sign of a paycheque not a feeling of being one with the land and it's inhabitants .

TD

[Duffman]

I don't think these guys are so much anti-science, but through their own lifetime observations can dispute some of the things to a point that science says is fact.

Jackpine and I may have our differences when it comes to political things, but I can tell when a poster has had a lot of experience in the outdoors, that’s why I respect and listen to what Jackpine has to say.

Experience is key, you can only learn so much in a book, and I can tell who truly walks the walk when it comes to fishing tactics on FM or other websites, guys who spend a couple hundred days a year on the water year after year. I'll take these guys opinions a little more seriously than a guy who fishes a half dozen times a year. Same with biologists, yes they study this stuff, but hypotheses and studies change from year to year depending on the findings. Some of those findings come straight from people such as JP and TD.

Same with TD, the guy spends most of his time in the bush, and fishes a ton. I also appreciate that he doesn't sugarcoat anything; he'll come right out and call a spade a spade. So don't take anything he has to say as a put down, he's just saying he has seen things that don't match up with what's in a book.

[vitalshot5]

I'm not disputing that rock bass do eat and eat and eat......but don't walleyes and northern eat the smaller rock bass?? So wouldn't this be an added food source when they are introduced into a system Or are they like me and think they taste like Poo!!!

[V-12 Merlin]

People have a historical tendency to introduce new things into our own environment, or into someone else's. They say that Curly Leaf Pondweed was introduced at about the same time as carp - and the carp may have actually carried seeds.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that rock bass aren't native to Minnesota, but I can't find any written record of that right now. One of the points may have been that the fish isn't native to a particular lake, but that's not what I understood in this discussion.

As for academia being better than personal experience or vice versa, one of the classic blunders of all time was created by people who had no experience with the world being round and therefore concluded that it was flat. For what it's worth, academia also said the world was flat and maintained they could prove it.

Who was smarter? Both are essential for dispelling myths and promoting knowledge, in my opinion. Without some rebel with a compass and a scroll of parchment, nobody would've calculated the circumference of the earth. Without a fast talking sailor, nobody would've tried to prove it.

In a way, I'm sorry to add my two cents to this thread. But, I am curious about where rock bass came from, whether they're any good to eat and so on.

[vitalshot5]

I think trapperdirk was refering to they were introduced into ontario not minnesota.....it is native to minnesota but back in the 50's they became introduced into alot of lakes in Ontario when they were stocked with smallmouth.

[trapperdirk]

Yes they have been introduced into my area as they never were here when I was growing up but were already established in lakes and rivers in southern Ontario not that I am that far north but I have spent time in even our far north of the province and even there in areas the rockbass are taking hold .

Yes rockbass are also forage for other fish but what we are finding is that it does not take long to them becoming the predominant prey species since they have displaced fish such as perch etc and even directly compete with all prey and predator species year round in all parts of the water column while most species have preferred zones and temps .

You may think I'm being harsh or hate rockbass but I hold no hatred for any of mother natures creatures but I don't think they should be in our waters that never had them before and all they are doing is throwing the fishery out of its original balance . Even crappies are doing the same and even though I like to fish for them and eat them they are taking their toll too and I don't like to see them in our particular watershed because of the effects on our walleye and trout etc. populations .

I also don't mind biologists as a link to sharing information but I don't like their attitude that often makes claims that it's ok and not to worry about some species taking a hold in our areas and telling us who notice the changes that these invaders belong here . They seem to feel that because they studied textbook biology that they have all the answers and even when proven wrong they just go ahead with their mindset and when it blows up in their faces they transfer out of the area and we are left with whats left and some other jack arse steps into his or her place and some other talk theory is contrived .

Don't even get me started on the two profs THEBERGE from the UNiversity of Windsor and wolves and what they managed to get legislated here and now that it is a mess they moved onto greener pastures of BC to likely spread the nonsense further .

I try to stay on top of the data whether it be fisheries or wildlife etc and read their thesis and thoughts but just because I do it does not mean they are right or that their theories are based on real facts or that they have the correct answers because even most days my teacher Mother Nature herself,,, most definately has better answers that bring me to conclusions of what is really going on than any Prof in a big University . Yes your great Profs have an agenda and that is to get funding for all their long winded studies because without those funds they have no reason to exist .

TD

[Minnetonka]

Trapper Dirk,

It's clear that you have a lot of common sense regarding the environment. No "scientist", or trapper, for that matter, has all the answers all the time. I ran a trap line when I was younger and spent seven years pouring drinks in a small norther MN town (Turtle River)just to pay my way through collage. I think that you and I could sit down over a beer and agree on a lot and at the end of the day, I hope we are all working towards a better environment, or will protect those areas that are pristine. I hope your trapping season is successful

[sdstate]

Ok this got blown out of control pretty quickly. In order for things to run smoothly, managers and outdoor enthusiasts need to work together. I guess "exotic" species is a very touchy subject. Obviously they are very hard to deal with and manage.

[trapperdirk]

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Ok this got blown out of control pretty quickly. In order for things to run smoothly, managers and outdoor enthusiasts need to work together. I guess "exotic" species is a very touchy subject. Obviously they are very hard to deal with and manage.

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Ahhh Come now sdstate don't quit now as I was getting the snare hung in the right place . LOL I do feel passionately about the outdoors but do think I still have myself under control and haven't blown anything out of proportion as my axe is not in my hand as of yet nor have you heard me roar .LOL

Anyhow lad if you don't wish to go further with outdoor issues or " rockbass " thats fine with me but as you see alot of us look don't look at things through a glass bubble that never gets rained on and no harm done but next time I'll get the snare set in place a wee bit earlier before you pass the baitpile by . LOL

And Minnetonka your right,, nobody has all the answers and I still consider myself just a student of mother nature and will always be one till the day my creater makes his call for me but in the mean time I will continue to question things that the powers that be say is how things are especially when the dots do not connect yet others do,,, and as far as downing some beers with you I would anytime but in fair warning to you . I have never seen a biological study done that didn't say a trapper won't always swill more beers than any prof or biologist and still manage to crawl into his den to sleep off the affects while the biologist has had to visit the great white telephone to clear his supper and called his wife after to carry him home . LOL

TD

[CatManLee]

I like how they taste. They are just as good as any other pannies. Those of you who don't like the taste, you must be catching them from nasty water, or just catching nasty tasting ones???

As for the anglers on this site who "throw fish on the ice" or shore or wherever just because you don't like them should get fined and have your fishing privilages revoked for a while! Just my opinion, but I think you are some of the worst sportsmen around!! I really can't understand the thinking behind your actions, and I'm sure most other fisherman on this site feel the same way. If I happened to see something like this, I would be calling TIP and you WOULD be getting a fine!!

Have a nice day!!!

[The_Duckslayer]

Concur with catman... I think that would fall under the "wanton waste" catagory! Like the old saying goes, one man's junk is another man's treasure. Take care and N Joy the Hunt././Jimbo

[sdstate]

I dont think any of us are looking through a glass ball. Like i mentioned before most of the people got into the field because we love the outdoors and have grown up in it. Unfortunately the field of wildlife/fish biology has gone away from actually managing the species. It is now more about people management (like you) that we have to deal with. I dont get how you can call yourself a sportsmen when you deliberately kill fish and dont use them in some way. Like the majority of people onhere, i dont think that is right either.

[vitalshot5]

Sd what post did trapper say he deliberitly killed fish....it was stated by a different poster.....get off your high horse and listen to the public.....they may have some information that may be helpful.....being in the field as a trapper/fisherman for 40 years may not mean much to you, but when it's your livelyhood thats being scrutinized by a young biologist without expirience it comes across as disrespectful.

[sdstate]

I think i stated in my other post that we do need to work together. I dont think i was being disrespectful, but that is just my opinion.

[The Yeti]

WOW!!! All I started this post with was asking if anyone caught one ice fishing and that I would prefer not to eat one. Did'nt intend for this to turn into a political and environmental debate... cripes!!