Building a new home

[MrSloppy]

I want to purchase land in about a year in the detroit lakes, ottertail area, approx 40 acres and build new home on it. I want to use this land for hunting also. I dont need a fancy huge house, just a two story with a basement. Can anyone give me advice on who to talk to, where to start. My budget is somewhere under 200k. Is this realistic?

[Surface Tension]

Unless your familiar with all phases in construction, you would be better off finding a good General Contractor. What he'll do is give you a bid for the entire project. There'll be dozen different trades coming in and he'll be responsible for securing bids and the scheduling of all of them.

What you'll need to do is get a set of house plans. This I can't stress enough, you will have to be every specific as to what materials go into the house and I mean everything, from frame to finish and have it all down in writing.

[harvey lee]

Looks to me like Frank hit the nail on the head.

[Stratosman]

A contractor will cost you about 20% over the cost of materials and labor... but can also save you time and believe it or not, money. Since most contractors work with a select group of subs, most can demand tighter pricing on materials and labor, to help keep costs down. Most sub's I know will charge more to work directly with homeowners, especially if they have a high work load the way it is. But do your homework, get numerous bids from either general's, or if on you own , subs. I think your budget is realistic depending, you need to figure costs for driveway, well and septic, which some people overlook in cost planning. And lot's of other factors play in the total cost too.

Some lumber yards will provide plan design service for no charge if building materials are purchased there.

Also to reiterate what S.T. said, not a bad idea is to type up a sort of "spec" sheet in regards to the new home. Detail out different items within different phases of construction so every sub or general knows exactly what they are bidding out and you know to what expectation the house is to be built to. Also all contractors will be bidding apples to apples, it can get very confusing if you don't have something like this. Trust it can eliminate alot of questions and possible problems. Detail everything from siding type to cabinet and door hardware... It is nothing to fill up 20 pages of specs for a typical house.... It is worth the time.

Good luck

[bellyup]

Hey Stratosman,

I can see why you know your stuff after I read your profile!

[Surface Tension]

Strat, brings up another very good point as far as your GC. He will have worked with and have a good working relationship with many of the subs. That is a tremendous advantage in many ways.

[nitroant]

While it is true that it will cost more to hire a G.C., it will most likely save you money if you have limited knowledge of construction. One reason you should use a G.C. is that subcontractors respect a G.C. more because they get repeat work from them. If you contract with them you are going to get their "B" team of workers and be last on the schedule beacuse your a one time deal and they know they are not getting any repeat business out of you. I would start looking for a plan or developing your own and then have an architect clean it up for you. The better the plan, the better the price will be. As said above, if you have a spec for all your bidders to follow, you will get "apples to apples" number to look at across the board, otherwise one guy might price Andersen windows and another guy Crestline. Not saying one is better than the other, but there is a price difference. Get informend on as much as you can, come down to the home show here in the Cities and ask questions, see whats new, talk to builders. Read a few "how to" books on building your own home so you get a handle on "contractor speak" And the #1 thing to do is get EVERYTHING in writing

[18 inch Crappie]

They now make some nice pre fab homes these days, 2 storys also.

[minneman]

Quote:

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My budget is somewhere under 200k. Is this realistic?

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Good info above!

40 acres may use up a good portion of that, if your able to find what you want.

[fishinchicks]

When is the home show?

[nitroant]

Quote:

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When is the home show?

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February 28th to March 4th.

[BFT]

Hey Minneman , I've heard that you build a pretty nice house ?

BFT

[minneman]

I try to do my best! I like happy home owners!

[eyepatrol]

Surface Tension, Stratosman and nitroant have said it very well on here. And, as they have stressed, I will stress also. Be very detailed in what you want. Write it all up with materials, brands, sizes, what have you. You don't want any confusion or misunderstandings with your home project. Definitely hire a general contractor. The ultimate finished product will be the responsibility of the general contractor. If something goes wrong with one of the subs, it is the general contractor's responsibility to work with the sub to make things right with the home owner. I work in the civil engineering field where we have to design roads, highways, utilities, developments...you name it. We have to put the plans together, write the specifications and lay the entire project out for contractors to bid. This is why I say the other guys gave you great info, is because if you are not detailed in what you want, there will be too much room for errors, omissions and other discrepencies that could and many times will lead to higher costs. Detail is very, very important. Some of the projects we do, the plan sheets alone will amount to over 100 sheets and the specifications books will at times be 1" - 2" thick! It's all about CYA!! (and getting what you asked for too)

[gundy89]

mr sloppy,

these guys put you in the right direction. 1 very important thing that i would add would be, dont run out of money. i am a mortgage broker and have talked to 4 people in the last month that used their construction loan up and are looking for more. it is extremely difficult to get more once you break ground. just make sure you have the ducks in a row prior to getting the construction loan. i dont want to see anyone in the position the last couple of borrowers were in because it sucks. good luck on everything.

[MrSloppy]

Thank you everyone for all the helpful info.

[slotlimit]

I just finished buying land and building a new home. Never having done this before it was a challenge. I first started out getting a few bids from big contractors and from local contractors. From all the general contractors bids they were getting $20,000 and they weren't even going to do any of the work. $20,000 dollars to line up people to do the work didn't really sound good to me. Here is what I would suggest and it's what I did. I talked to some other people in the area who had just built new homes. I found a builder who did all the contracting himself. He lined up the plumber, electical, excavating, and he biult the house himself at no extra charge to me. I met with the plumber, electical, and excavating people to discuss lighting, fixtures, bath tubs, draining, etc. Then each of these people gave me a bid. Then I took those same bids and went to different plumbers, electicians, etc and had them bid the exact same thing so I would be comparing apples to apples. I ended up hiring the plumber and excavator and went with a diffent electrician. If you are on a budget and I see you are. Try to get a plumber who will let you buy your own fixtures. I cut over $2000 by doing this. The same faucet he was going to install was priced at $130 and at menards the exact same faucet was $30. I couldn't believe what faucets can run a guy. Same with the electician. $65 dollars a can light is rediculous. You can buy a 4 pack that meets all codes for $20. I would suggest going through the lumber yard your Carpenter suggest though. Then when needs something he is usually a top priority. Good Luck on the house and really good luck on building a house and buying 40acres with $200,000. If you have any questions I'll gladly help.

[Redlantern]

I've worked on homes were the homeowner supplied the plumbing fixtures. It's always nice when there is something missing neccesary for installation. They get this dumb look on there face when I tell them go back and buy what I need to install it. They normally ask if I don't have the part in my van and I tell them, Hey, you wanted to save money at one of the big box stores, it's not my fault they sell factory seconds and dump. If you buy it from me, I'll take care of any of the problems but if you don't, you're on your own. Why should I waste my time (which is money), taking care of a warranty problem on something I didn't buy?

Do you bring your own eggs to the restaurant and have them cook them for you?

[slotlimit]

Erik,

I happen to agree with you totally. Both the plumber and electician did specify that all the items they need would be ready when they where ready. What type of person would expect you to warranty a faucet they baught at menards? If it had something to do with the installation of the product then you should be liable but if it's the product that failed I would expect to return the item myself. If I was not able to take the item apart and reinstall it myself I should also be charge for that. As far as menards/home depot selling factory second that is totally untrue. If it was true by law that information must be stated at the time of purchase. I can also see why a plumber would want you to by the fixtures from them at a 200% profit. Sure that prfit would be lower every time they have to come out and do warranty service. But I'll take my chances on the same Delta faucet at menards that the plumber is selling. I might also suggest telling your customers, I'm sorry sir but you chose to not buy the item from me so I cannot afford to warranty instead of Hey, you wanted to save money at one of the big box stores, it's not my fault they sell factory seconds and dump. I also don't bring my own eggs to the restaraunt nor does a resaraunt charge $20 for a couple eggs. I do bring my own fish though.

[MrSloppy]

One more question for all of you. What are you thoughts on modular or manufactured homes? The modular ones I've seen seem like regular stick built ones, so what is the benefit? Time, or money? Im looking to save money here when possible, but not go too cheap that it will cost me in the long run.

[slotlimit]

I looked into the modular and it seemed like a good buy. It for sure takes less time and money. I just chose to build a stick home because of preference. I suppose the main reason was the house I planned on building they couldn't do because of width restictions. I would have had to change the layout and being I don't ever plan on moving I wanted what I wanted.

[scaup]

If you go the manufactered home route I strongly recommed you have the exact same house bid out as stick built. I went through this process last fall and somebody suggested I do that. I came up with the plan and got an apples to apples bid and found out that the stick built home was actually cheaper. The major advantage to modular homes are the time. They can be a really convienat way to get into a house but once you start to add the things up that are not covered like a basement you may be surprised at the final project cost.

In the area that I live in the trades are slowing down a bit a some folks are pretty hungry for work. If you want to go through the work of getting a number of bids you may be surprised.

If you go with a general make sure you do some research and find out as much as you can about the builder. I used to live in a town where one of the largest builders was putting up some of the worst housing. There are a lot of really good builders out there and the difference between working with a god one and a bad is huge.

[Cruizin for Fish]

Sloppy - In my experience - the manufactured homes have limitations on size - they could not build the size house we wanted to be placed on our 40 acres. I hear the value of the home is reduced due to it being manufactured. I do have relatives with one (built 2005) and so far they like it. I know with the transport you do end upwith damage but the manufactured builder generally will take care of damages. Just something about a house being transported, shifted, rocked, bounced, moved that tends to make me feel the luster is lost. The companies will do all they can to convince you they are not a problem. I built mine with insulated concrete forms (ICF) to the roof line - if you are familiar with legos - you could do it too. Overall I am glad ours is ICF and interior stick built.

Cruizin

[JohnMickish]

I would like to say that the "$20,00 the GC gets for doing nothing" is to make sure that things go right, on time and on budget and if they don't you have ONE person to call.

The markup on fixtures provided by a reputable contractor are less than you think. The difference in cost comes from a difference in quality and support if there is a problem.

As an electrician I will throw in that the company I work for will install parts the the customer provides but the warrenty is for labor only, and when there is a problem because of missing parts or poor craftsmanship coming from Haiti (or wherever) you will pay thru the nose because the bid price is no longer in effect and now it is T&M (time and material) to correct the problem. I can call the parts house and get things rolling right away, try that at any big box store. How much money did you save now?? It really sucks to miss the due date because someone tried to save .3% of the cost of the house and now it's going to cost 1%(or more) in penalties. Scrimping money building your house is a sure fire way to never be happy with your house.

[slotlimit]

Sloppy,

You can believe what you want to about some of the ideas about building a home that are stated here. But I'm being completely honest with you. I'm not sure what 40acres goes for by Detriot lake but around here you are looking at $100,000 to $120,000 which leaves you with $80,000 to biuld your home. you are going to need to cut some corners. When I tell you about the markup on fixtures it's the truth. A delta faucet is a delta faucet. A light bulb is a light bulb. A Thomas Can light from menards is a Thomas can light from an electrician. With the electrician I hired the rough-in, furnace, air-con, and some code work done. For example you have to have special circuit breakers for bedrooms, places that hve to have ground fault outlets. But as far as putting up lights, outlets, light switches, covers a monkey could do it. Buying these items on your own will be a place to save money. I have been living in my house for a year and a half and no problems. I put in over 800sqft of hardwood floor myself. Saving another $1000 dollars in labor. I did all the tile. Does it take some time, yes. But I had never done any of these things before. Let me give you an example. I have 40 can lights in my home. The electrician bid them I believe at $70 a light. That's $2,100. I installed all Thomasville (I believe that's the brand) which I understand from talking to a few electricians is all they us and they were around $8 a light lets even say $10 with a total so far of $400. You slide the braces out and screw or pound them between the rafters or floor trusses. Then take your 14-2 wire that you will have to buy to run it from the light switch I needed 2 250ft roles which I got on sale for $18.50 (which is probably refurbished wire that will burn your house down made in Cuba)which brings the total to $437 then lets say another $17 for a book to help you along for a grand total of $450. Then you run a length of wire to your next light an do some pig tails and thats it. You just saved $1650. It's pretty much the same concept for outlets. Once you get the hang of it you could probably do everything in a day or 2. When I first started it seemed very overwhelming but it's not that bad. I would recommend getting an electircian just for the code part of the electrical Have them do the rough-in. If money wasn't that big of a deal sure go hire everything for a turn Key Home. I still would recommend Hiring a carpenter who does his own generaling. Put that $20,000 to good use. If you need a good recommendation My carpenter charged $25 an hour and I didn't have to do a thing or I could do as much as I wanted. I doubt he would drive o Detroit Lakes though. Like I said before he included all the generaling and was there actually working. I also have a great cabinet guy. It's called Mueller Wood Products out of Regal. It is all custom work. I even took his plan and went to Menards and Home Depot and they couldn't even touch his price and they are manufactured cabinets. I do believe that somethings you can not cut corners on like the foundation, insulation, windows, etc. But after doing it on my own with no help I know what I'm saying.