Big Bucks

[bigbucks]

Despite my handle I wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination call myself a trophy hunter. I definitely would consider myself a meat hunter. These days hunting for meat, if you hunt all the seasons, bow, shotgun/rifle, & muzzleloader isn't all that challenging usually to fill some tags, although it's still a rush regardless of the size or gender of the deer. What I'm saying is, I want to hunt a lot & I want to shoot some deer & don't really care what. With the current licensing, I basically hunt does, anything from a yearling up, while hoping for a "big" buck. I agree with whoever said that has to be a personal choice however, but I do think that people need to realize we need to shoot more does & less bucks & that you're not a better hunter just because you shot something with horns. If you consistently shoot something with big horns, which I don't, that's doing something, it's not easy, game farms excluded & from what I've heard it's not all that easy there either, except you know they'll be several available.

Currently my self-imposed antler restrictions are a decent 8 pointer or better. I think that has to go with each hunter based on experience. If you've never shot a 6 pointer & you want to, shoot it. If you've shot 10 of them, wait for a biiger one, especially bowhunting. I've lost track of how many forks, sixes, & little eights I've passed on bowhunting the last few years. If you have some decent land & get in the woods a lot, you realize the only thing dumber than one of these young bucks is a fawn. The number of times I've had mature does sense something was up just before stepping into bow range, immediately after a 6 pointer & a pair of fawns have just fed under my tree for a few minutes is mind boggling. If you happen to see the true matriarch doe of the area, that 3 1/2 plus year-old doe that's bigger than most of the bucks, you've done something if she comes into bow range. They're smart & they don't make rut crazed mistakes like even the big bucks will sometimes do. I hunted the same 2 acre cornfield 15-20 times last year, passed on small bucks & fawns almost every outing before finally shooting the nice adult doe I'd seen several times, that always seemed to know something was there. She was no monster, but she was smart & trust me I was about as pumped as I've ever been, excluding first deer with each weapon & first bucks. I can remember bowhunting a hayfield one other year that had two does & five fawns coming to it every night. The mother of the triplets was huge & her fawns were way bigger than the other two fawns. We had three stands on that hayfield for different winds & we adjusted according to where we saw them in different winds. They were there every night & never acted like they knew you were there, but they never entered the field near a bowhunter once. She did finally get shot during gun season, but even then, she seemed to know I was there, before I got her.

I guess what I'm saying is, you need to judge what you shoot, by how much you hunt & what your previous success has been. I won't ask my Dad & brother who hunt one or two weekends a year to be very picky or a kid whose never shot a deer, unless possibly they're on my own property & they've shot a couple deer already. We can't impose really tough regs on the more casual hunter & expect them to stay with us, & we need every hunter we can get in our ranks, as long as they're safe, ethical, & respectfull of the land.

Sorry for the "novel", but like somebody else said, I'm a little passionate about this deer hunting thing.

-Pray for clean kills or clean misses, but we all know which one we really want...

[eyesontonka]

Well JLM,

We farm some of the best crop land in MN so i know what the profit is!CRP ='s more money in pocket on a lot of land in MN then what farmers would make on todays prices! Without basicaly doing anything..Other thing is on over hunting the crp...Well whats out there at the moment to hunt or what we cant hunt...very little ...so why would you think it would be over hunted when we have basicaly no crp now? You must not have been hunting late 80's early 90's when S.MN had all that crp...i was..it worked very well!..Thats basicaly how the deer population got outa hand! Lots of cover..nice easy winters and to many land owners not allowing hunters to take deer! WE farm so i'm not picking on the farmers by saying they should or should'nt allow hunting cause it's there land!I'm saying if farmers are going to get money from all tax payers it should be open to hunt and also charge more for lic and start a new program for farmers who would be willing to join this and collect extra money to allow hunting then!DNR has to do somthing else...they never keep a good thing when they get 1 for some dumb azz reason...must be the new kid on block who has another great idea that hardly ever pans out! Every year we have more hunters..thats great...but means we must have better plans for future hunting!CRP is the best way to solve most of the problems!Point restrictions also would be a good thing for everyone over 18 under age 55 and not handycaped! Buck permits would be a good thing too as long as a point restriction was in place at the same time...atleast 4 on 1 side! I would not be PO'd if i had to pay double what i pay today for my lic providing i had good hunting!

For the people who also think all the big deer are gone! Big deer are all over not as many but there still here! Just got very very smart!Run at night and not as far! Mainly from over hunting without the cover we used to have! I spot light deer 5 nights a week weather permitting! 1 would be amazed at the monster bucks that run basicaly at night only! 170 class and up were common in the early 90's now you here of only a couple taken a year around here! 1 would also be amazed at the big bucks that live in farm groves all hunting season as well!

Dont get me wrong...we need places where no ones allowed to hunt! But on the other hand should be no reason if your collecting funds from all of us why should we not be allowed to hunt!

I have many great places to hunt that most people only dream about so i'm not saying this to better myself by no means! Saying this to help me out a lil but to make it so we all(hunters) have better and wildlife has longer life span as well!

I would like to hear from other hunters on what they had to say about raising the lic by lets say 25% if you had many places to take your kids or who ever out ta hunt!Be able to allow the youngsters many chances each trip to take game!
Lic are cheap in mn for the length of season, trips out each year!

Thats my 2cents

[bigbucks]

I don't mind the price of the licenses myself because like I can tell you do, I hunt all fall. If the All-Season License went up say $10, I'd still buy it. For the guys who hunt one or two weekends a year & I'd be willing to bet it's over half of the deer hunters in MN, probably by a lot, they don't want to pay all of that money for anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks of hunting. An awful lot of those guys don't care about big bucks, they just want to shoot a deer & big chunk of these guys are very good hunters, they just don't want to hunt all fall like we do. I know people around here that hunt for the meat, & don't have much money, that already feel like they can't afford to hunt deer.

The other thing I think we have to take into consideration is perhaps the amount of acreage you have in CRP. Up in Central MN most properties aren't bigger than a couple hundred acres & many are 80's & 40's etc. with maybe 20 acres that could be in CRP. You can't expect those people to open up their land to public hunting, it wouldn't support the traffic. In the same token, those little pieces of CRP would still mean more wildlife for all of us.

I guess what I'm saying is I see where you're coming from, but there's other sides to it & I think you'd have to adjust the cost of the licenses that the "trophy" hunters are using & adjust the access to only "larger" properties. I don't know what size that is, but maybe at least a 100 acres of CRP & only on the actual land that is CRP, not the additional woods the farmer owns right next to it. Just because we want bigger bucks doesn't necessarily make us right.

[eyesontonka]

BigBucks

Was basicaly talkin about all game!We have hunters more and more each year from the northern half of mn driving down in are area to bird hunt!I think thats great! if i hunted 1 day or everyday all season and was able to hunt and have more chances at game i'm game to try a new idea!
I also agree with ya on the folks who cant afford more money to pay out to a lic! I hear this all the time on my trips to other states up north here in mn but i see them pizz away 100 bucks on pull tabs drink 50 bucks of booze anite! Guess if you can afford all that another 10 bucks or 1 dollar for a lic is still to much maybe take up golf in back 40!
Problems everyone has is split down the northern part of state and southern part!In order for this to work lic must be sold according to zones!Southern lic more money that money is only used in southern zone!only southern zone lic hunters may hunt in southern zone yet still able to hunt the northern zone for game!
outa state lic must double what they are now!

By the way...anyone who likes to bird hunt may hunt are land after the deer gun season once a year! Lots of birds but we want to keep some for seed and give a good hunt to all! No charges all we ask is dont over use the privs or everyone looses!4.5 miles of ditch 100 yards on both sides plus 4 (1/2)acre corn plots 40acre plot of native grass that grows 6foot tall so ya need a dog!Woods are off limits!Also have an area thats marked no hunting cause we planted 5000 trees some that are only knee high if that..need a couple more years to grow 1st! Most of the land is on weseca county line! Must have a slip from 1 of the family members on your poss signed for that day!Not try'n to be an azz but would like to give the 1st and last hunter same hunt is all! Youth hunters are welcome back 1 more time last week of season Parent(s) are welcome as well but asked not to shoot birds!This is a great place to video your youth hunter lots of birds! 1 side of the ditch has an atv trail that is well maintained also used for wheel chairs so disabled hunters are no problem and i also will bring my dog for any disabled hunter on sunday from 9-3 no charge!

PS if a coyote jumps up and you dont shoot dont come back...

[eyesontonka]

Heres my 2cents

Southern zones have a short season and at a bad time being in middle of rut..problem is if the season changes early to many crops are still up meaning bad luck for most hunters and [PoorWordUsage]ed off farmers...if we push the season back to late nov no crops in and deer head into wintering grounds meaning very few places to hunt being most wintering grounds around here are off limits to everyone!

Solution..if you remember back in early 90's when we had crp all over you'll remember the monster bucks we had for a few years!1 year after the crp was taken out was last year of great buck hunting(150 class and up)!

I deer hunt 3-5 states every year insearch of 170 class or bigger!Wont say what state has it all but i know for a fact crp holds monster bucks big time in 1 state that has same cover we have here in southern mn but with a lot of crp!

So heres my 2cents...why not pay more for lic(DEER,birds etc...have the farmers put aside land for crp with hunting lic money going to those farmers.. we as tax payers do pay for the farmers who are in crp program now that post no hunting signs on hundreds of acres!Allow the hunters to hunt this property since were all paying for it anyways!

My family relation owns about 2,000 acres in south central mn!We put aside 10% for wild life at are own cost!This land is off limits to everyone including me!Reason is look around..not much cover left!years back when we had no cover there was nothing for wild life..now were on up side! put your 2cents in when the new crp program hits..think it's in 2 years but never to late to put in the 2cents!

[jlm]

That would be a great idea (other states do that) but can you see the fatal flaw? Yup, if access is given to all, there will not be a deer for miles. I think it would be counter productive rather than beneficial. I also respectfully disagree with your statement that CRP should be open to all because "we pay for it". That is true to some degree, I will not dispute that. However, farmers take their land out of production and get a minimal payment for it. On most years, they could be making more money if they would have farmed it. They still pay the taxes as well. But the bonus for all of us is that it benefits our wildlife populations. We have better hunting in the state of MN because of the CRP program. If anything, we should be chipping in a little extra to them for making our hunting a possibility!

[jlm]

Eyes wrote:
"Problems everyone has is split down the northern part of state and southern part!In order for this to work lic must be sold according to zones!Southern lic more money that money is only used in southern zone!only southern zone lic hunters may hunt in southern zone yet still able to hunt the northern zone for game!"

I am not sure that I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that Southern hunters would be able to hunt the southern zones and they would also be able to hunt northern zones? All the while, northern hunters are restricted to the northern part of the state. I am completely lost with this logic, it makes no sense to me at all but hey, it might be just me.

"By the way...anyone who likes to bird hunt may hunt are land after the deer gun season once a year! Lots of birds but we want to keep some for seed and give a good hunt to all! No charges all we ask is dont over use the privs or everyone looses!"

This is a great offer eyes, but I have to give you a word of warning. If you are serious about this and give out your address, you will have hunderds of people knocking on your door to hunt. You are really opening yourself up for something that you will regret in my opinion...do you realize how many people read this forum? Good logic with the yotes though!

If you farm some of the best land in the state of MN, you would not have it enrolled in a CRP program (unless you are a serious conservation family that is willing to give up the income in order to support wildlife). CRP is based on points in order to be selected (like the trees you planted, that would add points). If you were to try enroll it today, it would not be considered unless it is highly erodable land. The best farm land in the state would not be highly erodable land. There is no way that the best land in the state would not turn more of a profit farming it than it would if it was enrolled in CRP, particularly over the last couple of years. If you are talking Riperion Buffers, you migh have a case as the payment is usually much higher.

I agree completely that CRP benefits all wildlife and I sure wish there was more out there..particularly in the southern part of the state. However, paying farmers to open the land for public use would have a detrimental effect on the wildlife because it would be absolutely pounded because of the high hunter population (look at the state land around the cities). I would rather see CRP that is controlled by the owner so that he/she can limit access. That way the critters would not be over harvested and some will spread beyond that particular chunk of land. That will benefit all of us one way or another. This is all just my opinion though, we all have one of them I guess!

[eyesontonka]

JLM

1st of all we do NOT ask for no money for the trees or native grasses we planted or have we got any...all out of are own pocket...Are family hunts nation wide and we know the importance of wild life and hunting together! We already have many many people who hunt are property thats why we set limits to one time a year to allow every hunter a good hunt!If it was up to me and i was rich i would put all the land into native grasses and allow everyone to hunt when ever but i have not won the lotto yet sorry to say!We do not hunt the Birds are selves! I go to Iowa 1 time a year on a family Bird hunt!Were setting this up for others to enjoy the birds but for us in a few years to have chances at monster bucks on a consistant basis and for those people who hunt around us!Some day this land will be set aside for youth hunters and disabled only as far as bird hunting!Not my choice but i'm not sole owner and never will be!Give ya an example..we let a man have the rights to hunt geese all season...well he no longer hunts cause he over used his welcome...told him no hunting 1 week before deer gun season till last day..he went anyways..also was shooting pheasants everyday!End of story!If your from the area i'm sure you know who he is!

What i ment by the north zone south zone was you have the option to buy 1 or the other...North zone price would stay about the same..south zone would increase say about 25%..if you buy a south zone lic you can hunt the whole state but if you buy the north zone lic you must only hunt that zone!
The extra 25% for the hunting lic would go for the south zone only! This would allow deer pressure to slowly decrease in the northern zone thus allow the deer to mature!People do not look back at why the deer population went outa control in early 90's up north and down in are area! Reason was easy winters less hunting pressure since the southern zone had so many deer more hunters stayed south and even northern hunters headed south!If you think different your more crazy then i sound!
the 25% increase would be on small game lic...sorry i did'nt clear that up!

I for 1 would not enter the program to collect on it cause we are try;n to do are part!Just try'n to find away to help out future hunters and farmers all at the same time!Most hunters live in town and do not have the conections to hunt private land!Nor can they afford to buy a peice of land and turn it into hunting grounds!

I'm sure in future if crp set aside or what ever was back in place like it was late 80's early 90's more game more places to hunt ='s more young hunters willing to give it a try ='s more lic ='s more 25% for more hunting land!

To simple i guess!Maybe i need to go get my math degree!Sounds to simple to work right..The plan in place now sure in the hecks not working!

ok my relative just read this and asked me why raise small game lic up...Well 1st of all your going to get more people to go with this idea rather then say hey lets raise deer lic up to get bigger bucks..Get more bird hunting back into play big bucks will follow in 2-3 years again! Makes all hunters a happy spoiled camper once again!

Still think a 4 point on 1 side for bucks would play a major role period!

By the way JLM where abouts ya from?

[bigbucks]

eyesontonka

I'm impressed with your families willingness to allow other hunters, virtually anyone with some ethics, on to your land, that's really great!

I hear what you're saying about the people complaining about the license fees. I definitely know of people that complain that spend plenty on pull tabs, booze, etc. I also know those that never spend a dime on that kind of stuff & struggle with spending it on outdoors activities vs. church, charities, etc. those people shouldn't need to get gouged for more money, because we want people with strong values to continue to hunt & encourage their kids to hunt. Anything I've read says the number of hunters is already going down considerably, so we don't want to lose more.

I could see them increasing the cost of the state duck & pheasant stamps too, as I believe that excludes those who own land, & hunt very occasionally for that game only on their own land from having to purchase them. That would shift most of the additional cost to those of us who hunt a lot, & probably use the public land. We just consider it part of our "recreation/entertainment" budget anyway.

I think there's been some good ideas brought up on this thread.

[jlm]

Eyes-
Well, I certainly respect you and your family for contributing to the overall health of our wildlife. Anyone who does that is top notch in my mind. I was only trying to provide some good advice because sometimes people can open up a can of worms thats difficult to close. If you were to post your contact number here, you would get calls coming by the hundreds and I am sure that is not want you want. There is no doubt the CRP program is helpful to the environment, it helps almost all species of wildlife and I for one would like to see more effort put into the CRP program. However, as it stands now, it will be very difficult for many to re-enroll their land because the guide lines have become much more strict. Land that got in ten years ago will be more difficult to get back in bacause it was not highly erodable land. That is too bad for sure. However, I believe that farmers can still have an impact by leaving some of their crops standing throughout the Winter such as corn. That is easier said than done though since many small farmers are just hanging on financially. I never implied that you got any money for planting trees, etc. I realize it is out of pocket expenses which certainly is not cheap. However, if you look into some of the programs out there through the state and federal agencies, you might be able to find some cost share programs. It would be worth the effort to look. Anyway, good work with the land and good luck with everything.

[NWBuck]

Being an Iowa resident, I think our state DNR has it about right for both quantity and quality. Seeing a 120"+ deer is relatively common in all areas of the state. From my view, the primary reason MN maybe doesn't have the numbers of giant deer is because of a rifle season during the rut. If you're a gun hunter you probably love it, but if your primary passion is bowhunting, it is more of a problem than guys who shoot young bucks. Either way...enjoy the hunt! MN is a great state and I hunt and fish there often!