All-Season deer license interpretation???

[Mark Christianson]

After talking with my neighbor yesterday, I realized, I understand the All Season license less than I thought.(Maybe)
We pulled out the regs, and spent a good hour or more just running through scenarios, and how the license would work.
I have a few questions about it, and I know the right place to go is DNR law enforcement, but I thought it would be interesting to get other view points to see how wide the opinions vary on this topic.
I have a few questions, but rather than fill this post with all of them right off the bat, I will start with one(or two).
If I hunt in Zone 4, permit area 411; if I am out on opening weekend of Archery;
1. Can I tag 2 deer with the 2 licenses that I purchased under the All-Season?(Just assume I do not want to buy an IHP-Intensive Harvest Permit.)
My understanding last year, was that you could NOT tag 2 deer with the same weapon(unless you bought additional IHP). Or was that just for Firearms season? Gosh, I cannot remember.
2. If I can tag 2 deer with my All-Season license tags on opening weekend of Archery; Can they both be anterless?
From what my site tags say, it looks to me that one must be a buck and one must be anterless.
The neighbor believes there is a twist in the license that would allow you to site tag 2 does with the All Season if I were hunting on opener Archery.

I have other questions, but I will wait to post later, after this subject gets hit for a while.
Looking forward to the thoughts.

[This message has been edited by biglakeba$$ (edited 08-24-2003).]

[adaylate]

My understanding is you can tag 2 deer 1 buck and 1 doe by archery if you choose.If
you want more does you need a IHP for areas that are open to them.

[korn_fish]

One must be a buck and one must be a doe.

you can bag both deer in one day if you are archery, or muzzleloading. OR....and its a big OR, if you are slug hunting and you were selected for a doe permit for that season of the firearms season...otherwise, you can only tag a buck during slug season.

I had the all season last year and buck was taken by bow on the 3rd weekend, and the doe was taken on christmas by bow also.

One big thing to remember is that if you have the all season liscense and are slug hunting, you still can not party hunt (party tag deer) with others unless they are also all season liscense holders. ONe rule I don't understand why, but it's the rules.

[adaylate]

You can not party hunt with an all season deer license under any circumstances.You can assist in other ways but no party tagging.

[BLACKJACK]

I think that korn_fish has it right. With the all-season, you can shoot a doe and a buck, one must be a buck, you can shoot them both on the same day with the same weapon. If you are slug hunting, and your permit area is a lottery area, you must have drawn a doe permit. If you're in managed area, you automatically get a doe permit but you must shoot it in your designated zone. Clear as mud? And the DNR keeps hyping this as 'simpler'. Yeah, right.

One question I have concerning the All Season deer licence, it appears that a person could take THREE deer with that licence, two with your All Season and one more if you purchase a Management permit. On the bottom of page 56 in the regs it says 'in no case may a person take more than two deer (except all season deer licences...' Also near the top of page 73 it says 'note:All Season deer licence holders may take one buck and one antlerless-only deer on their regular licence and may purchase one additional deer management permit'. So it looks like you could take 3 deer with the licence, even if you don't hunt in an intensive harvest zone. Simpler, right??!

[BLACKJACK]

One more clarification that I'm looking for. Folowing the line of my previous post, if I buy the All Season licence, and apply for a doe permit in a lottery zone (426a), and do NOT get a doe permit, I can still shoot a doe (and a buck) with my bow anywhere in zone 4 - correct??

[Mark Christianson]

You cannot shoot a doe with your bow during firearms season anywhere in the state with your All Season license site tag. I think!

[korn_fish]

biglake - correct, no shooting a doe with any weapon durring firearms season if you did not get a doe permit for that season

[This message has been edited by korn_fish (edited 08-25-2003).]

[protrapper]

You can shoot either a buck or a doe with your bow. If you shoot a buck with your bow you can shoot a buck or doe with your gun. Doe with gun if you have the permit.

If you shoot a doe with your bow, you can only shoot a buck with your gun.

One deer per license unless you buy management tags. All - season license not good for zone 3b.

[Mark Christianson]

Are you sure about that protrapper?
With the All-Season license you can take 2 bucks? There is no where in the regs that I have seen that option.
I have not heard that one yet anywhere. That opens another can of worms.
If I can take 2 bucks potentially, I am even more pumped for the season.

This is why I posted this topic. Its amazing the differences in views on this.

[korn_fish]

You can NOT take two Bucks!!!!!!!!!

With just the all season license you can only get two deer. And they have to be of different sexes.

I think what confuses most people is that durring firemarms season you can only shoot a buck onless you draw a doe permit or if you are automatically given a doe permit in your area. ( I think this rule sucks - but I trust the DNR have a valid reason for it )

So if you shoot a buck with a bow on opening day of bow season and didnt get a doe permit for the firearm season, than you cant even carry a bow or gun in the woods durring the firearms season cause your Buck tag has already been used and you wouldn't have a legal tag for the firearm season ( all season antlerless tag is not valid durring firearms season unless a doe permit is awared - so you must remember to apply for this).

But if you shoot a doe before firearm season, then you still would have a buck tag left and can then hunt durring firearms season with either a bow or firearm. However, you can only shoot a buck regardless if you were awarded a doe permit for that season or not, becuase your doe tag was already used.

If you shoot a buck before firearms season and ARE awarded a doe permit for the firearm season, then you can still hunt the firearm season with your choice of weapon but still must only shoot a doe because that is the only tag you have left.

The antlerless tag on the all-season liscense is not a "way around" to applying for a doe permit. This is what a lot of people thought last year, but realized it too late.

If you have hunted the all-season liscense before, then y ou know that you receive two tags right away. And it says right on one that it is for a buck and the other tag it says its for an antlerless. You need to make sure you use the right tag on the right deer. Otherwise, if you accidentaly put the buck tag on your doe that you shotdurring Sept with your bow, and are hunting the firearms season for your buck, but actually only have your doe tag left in your pocket, you could be in a world of trouble if a CO checks you and you didnt have a doe permit for that season.

Nice try on the two buck thing Protrapper, when you shoot your two bucks, let us know, and we'll make sure someone come visits you.

[This message has been edited by korn_fish (edited 08-26-2003).]

[mdeiley]

i throw this out in addition to big lakes question. if archery hunting with a regular archery lieense you are able to tag either buck or doe. so is the buck tag availiable for a doe during archery season and muzzle? the antlerless tag must be used on a doe. i would think the only during archery and muzzle the buck tag would be classified under normal license rules of that hunt. therefore allowing to take either sex with that portion of the tag. i also agree with korn nobody can harvest more then one buck per calender year. good luck hunting!

[mdeiley]

korn, if in management area or intensive area and have filled both tags on all-season. you are able to buy either ihp or mp and still hunt during firearms season but can only tag a doe. the exception being you are hunting in that area on your license.

[korn_fish]

mdeiley

I have no idea about the mgmt and intensive harvest permits. I am only talking about hunting with just the all-season license. When I refer to the doe permit, I am NOT talking about ith or mgmt tags. I am talking about the permit we all had to apply for by the first weekend in September in previous years if we wanted the chance to shoot a doe durring the firearms season.

From what it looks like, is that if you had a mgmt or ith permit, you would then be able to get your third deer (doe) with that. I THINK?!?!?!

IN my area, they don't have ith permits and we must apply for a doe permit in the firearms season. Having one of these ith or mgmt permits does not change what you can and when you can shoot your buck or doe with the all-season. The Ith and mgmt tags are seperate tags.

From reading some of the posts regarding this, there seems to be two things people are interested in.
1. getting more deer.
2. being able to

[This message has been edited by korn_fish (edited 08-27-2003).]

[Mark Christianson]

I am not so interested in shooting up 10 deer, I just want to know what I can legally take, so I don't have someone knocking at my door.
I bought the All-Season, mainly because I want to hunt with all the weapons. Not so much to shoot 2 deer. If I can fill both tags, great, if not; no big deal to me.

My interest in starting the post had only to do with getting the varying opinions. Its very obvious that people probably filled some tags last year that were outside the regulations.
Keep the thoughts coming. My plan is to contact the DNR to nail this down, but I thought it would be fun to see what people "think" is correct.

[Mark Christianson]

ozzy,
ya lost me totally now.
You cannot take an anterless deer during firearms season with a bow. That I know for sure. I think.!?

This is getting great! Keep em comin.

[korn_fish]

Ozzy, better think twice on the two doe thing. Without an intensive harvest tag or a managemtent tag, no matter which way you look at it, th law is that you can only shoot one buck and one doe. There are twists to what sex you can and can't get durring the firearms season though. But end result at the end of the season, you can have tagged one of each sex. No two bucks, No two does. Just one of each. No buts about it, no what if's. thats the facts.

In the years before the all-state lisence a bow hunter could never shoot a doe durring the firearms season with their bow before. But could shoot a doe at any other time of the bow season. The same holds true today with the all-season license is that the hunter, regardless of what weapon they are using, can only take a buck durring the firearms season unless they have a valid doe permit for that area. Just using a bow durring the firearms season still does not allow the taking of a doe without the proper permit.

They way to look at it is you basically have an archery lisense, a muzzleloader license, and a slug/rifle license. Each season had and has its own rules.

Bow - you could and can shoot eeither a buyck or doe but could and stil can only shoot a buck durring the firearm season

muzzleloader - you can shoot either buck or doe.

Slug - you can only shoot a buck unless you were awarded a doe permit.

Before last year you could have purchased a bow tag and a firearms tag. But only taken one deer still. If you had purchased both and not gotten a deer yet, you still could only shoot a buck durring the firearms season if you were not awarded a doe permit. The same holds true today with the all season license.

The only thing that is different with the all season license than having both the bow and firearms license in earlier years, is:
1. you can shoot two deer instead of just one. One has to be a buck and one has to be a doe.

It does not affect or change any of the rules that used to be in place. They are still there.

This topic almost scares me.

Sorry ozz, I had this same discussion with mr. ekstam, one of the big wigs in the region for the DNR last year ( he just retired ) and I am only telling you what the regs state and how he explained them to me last year.

Nothing has changed between last year and this year!!

Biglake - I didnt' finish my earlier post, but I too was using the all-season to get some meat in the freezer with a doe, then to try for that Huge Mr. Buck. If I end up with just one deer so bee it. I just happened to get big ol' buck In October last year (passed up on 4 different bucks from 6-8 points before Earnie Sr. finally made his rounds 20 minutes earlier than normal so I could legally shoot). I had to sit firearms season out....still was in the woods but only with a binocular and no weapon, cause I had no doe permit and a certain DNR person had informed me of the rules before firearms season. Low and behold, guess which farmland got checked twice durring the second season and each time they asked to see my license and made sure I wasn't hunting with any weapon!!! Tagged my doe on x-mas day.

Oh yeah - I name all the bucks in the area I hunt durring scouting. So Earnie Sr. was a deer and not some guy.
Last year was the sesame street gang. Bert, Earnie, Earnie Sr., Big Bird, and snuffelofogus.
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[protrapper]

I was wrong about the 2 bucks.

Here's the answer from a C.O.

1 deer with bow. Buck or doe.
If you shoot a buck with a bow, then you can shoot a doe with your rifle, if you have the permit.

If you shoot doe with bow you can only take a buck with rifle. Even with a permit you cant shoot a doe. Vice versa with a muzzle loader. You can not shoot 3 deer.

You can take multiple deer with more permits if you get them for that area.

All season not valid for zone 3b.

[This message has been edited by protrapper (edited 08-27-2003).]

[mdeiley]

protrapper,
so are you saying if i shoot a deer with my bow, i cannot take another with my bow? or can i take 2 with bow, rifle, or muzzle, providing its a buck and a doe?

this is ridiculous.

[korn_fish]

Thanks protrapper -

I think I needed some backup, I was starting to feel like I was all alone.

I too, just sent off an email to the DNR with a link to this thread on the forum so there could be clarification on the exact questions and beleifs that many have posted on here.

Like one of my earlier posts stated, this scares me. If Biglake hadn't brought the topic up, just think how many people would be shooting illegaly this coming year. And just think how many people are still out there that still don't understand or refuse to understand them.

[korn_fish]

mdeiley -

You can take both deer with your bow durring the bow season and outside the firearms season. You could take both with your muzzleloader durring the muzzleloader season. You could take both durring the firearms season if you have a doe permit.

You could, if the deer permit, take both on the same day if your that lucky

You can not take a doe durring the firearms season with bow or muzzleloader if you did not have a doe permit awarded to you from the lottery system.

Many beleive that you can bypass the doe permit lottery by using a bow durring the firearms season and possesion of the all-season doe tag but not having the lottery awared doe permit. This is just simply not the case.

[This message has been edited by korn_fish (edited 08-27-2003).]

[adaylate]

Can anyone tell me where in the laws it says that you can not shoot a doe with a bow during a gun season? I can't find it.

[Mark Christianson]

I am laughing. Seriously. As I read this, I just can't imagine how many people with a logon to FM, have not looked at this, and think they fully understand the law. Now add on all the people that do not even have a computer.
CO's have their hands full.

This is a joke, in the complexity of all the different licenses.
I have no clue how to simplify this disaster, but something has to be done.

[korn_fish]

adaylate- If you read the regs, page 56, 3rd bullet point, it says, you can only take one doe with firearms if you have a valid permit that you were given in the lottery. However it does say with a firearm.

The confusion is in "what if I use a bow durring firearms season" because the two seasons overlap I beleive. Let me know if I am wrong in your assumption.

But here goes....based on past regs and past CO responses, no matter if the seasons overlap, if you are hunting durring the firearms seasons, any weapon you have is considered a firearm. So you must abide by the regs set forth for the firearms season.

IN the firearms section, page 69, under lottery deer permit areas, it states "all_season deer license holders successfull in the lottery may use the antlerless portion of their license to tag the deer"

confusing, yes. I see a hole in the regs now compared to the 2002 regs. Based on the information on page 69 and 56 that I mentioned above, it fits the regs of a bow hunter hunting durring the firearms season based on 2002 regs in that a bow hunter can not shoot a doe durring the fire arms season. But looking at the archery section in the 2003 regs, I dont see it stated that a bow hunter (non all season holder) can not get a doe durring the firearms season. I think this is a miss by the DNR in the regs. But it is a definite hole. Hopefully whoever respoonds to myu email will clarify it all.

I think we have all clarified most of it, but this firearms season b.s. is still lingering out there. And trust me I want to get solid proof from the DNR just like everyone else.

[This message has been edited by korn_fish (edited 08-27-2003).]

[mdeiley]

korn i realize you were specifying the all season. i only want to fully understand the law as well. i am assuming what i wrote was true. only looking for feedback to help clarify. the main question i still have is can i take 2 deer both of which are does during the archery and muzzle seasons with my all season license. the only reason is in past years either archery tags or muzzle tags were good for either sex.