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O.T.C.

What to do if you were in this situation ?

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Hi guys, trying to help a friend(s) out a bit here and after much research, I need to lay this year after year scenario out to you. Rifle deer season is the time of year, we're in zone 2. The person involved owns 1.3 acres of land and has a box stand on it that he hunts opening day. No problem. Then, after that AM sit he and others, when they see my buddies open the gate to head in on PM hunts or to make a drive they have a dirt mound on this 1.3 acres and they shoot dozens if not hundreds of rounds and this goes on until seasons end.  Sometimes, not as often, but  in the early AM once legal light hits if he see's my friends in orange are out the shooting begins again. Then when his cronies get back from wherever they hunt they join right in. It only ends when my buddies leave, can you guys believe a guy is giving up on his own hunt to harass my friends the best he can ? 10 years is too much of this. My friends did go over there to calmly talk about it as I bring my little girl and friend has a 5 year old son etc it's very unnerving and it's all 100% to bother us no doubt about it as the other 346 days of the year you rarely rarely hear a single gunshot at that place and one friend lives close enough to monitor things. The guy slammed the door on my friends made some rude comments and that was that. So the plan is what ? We stormed over there the next year and he just hid as well as his cronies, wouldn't answer the door. Next day, year, now decade same ol. Some will say plant a goat in a corral within 500 feet which we can easily and he'd then need written permission I believe to be able to continue firing? We'd take goat boy with us after the season ends. Is that our only solution or head over with a deputy since he cuts the lights locks the door and hides? I don't mind him harassing us but I don't like him using rifles to do it. Thankfully none of us hunt there. I have my own areas but do to help them drag, drive, etc. Thought my friends were embellishing things but they are not. They told me go through the gate, you'll see so I drove over alone unhooked the gate, grabbed my gun, acted like I was heading in and I made it about 25 feet before bullets started flying and this is all the time every time to the point you realize he's watching for us 24/7 and or can see a few friends from his house when in their stands. From 4:00pm on he'll blast away until legal light is done just so my friends can't hear anything or it may keep the deer bedded tight idk. My gut tells me years ago he used to sneak onto this farm a lot and now realizes he can't. We first posted the land about year 2 of this non-sense and that seemed to ramp up things. I understand, most if not all of you will never have to deal with something like this. But take a minute to think about your last 10 or so deer seasons and what it would be like if every time you went to hunt your farm this was going on. You get to the last hour of shooting light and there's steady rifle fire until dark and it's not legit someone shooting at a deer, imagine 10 years of that. We'd rather fight them but first we'll see if there's any legal ways to stop it. Thought going over to talk would help but he knew right away we came out of the gate and direct into his driveway and he hid so we thought maybe he got the message the next day fired about 250 rounds crack of dawn until my friends left then from 4 to dark again so grandma called him even from the farm itself and he was rude hung up on her etc so he's a real treat. So, what do you guys make of this ? Trust me on this I wouldn't waste my time or yours if this was fiction.

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I'm thinking the sheriff is the answer, or  maybe a CO.  This seems to fit the "hunter harassment "  law to me.  Not sure who enforces that sort of stuff in your neck of the woods. 

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Right on. Well new update. Grandpa on the farm heard we were hoping to settle this with willow sticks and a meeting was called to order immediately. Grandpa and his 2 grandsons ( deer camp members) went over to the house/people in question knocked on the door to discuss what is going on peacefully as he's bible going never to swear kind a guy. He was met with get the #%+= off my #%%^**+ property you #%^* piece of #%^*. NOW!!! before he got a word in. My boys now get out of the car overhearing a profane tirade of course offering come on out etc you don't talk to my grandpa like that etc and that was that. They drove back to the farmhouse. Feeling fairly sick to my stomach that grandpa was put through any of that at 85 years of age. So, the meeting resumed and pretty sure a solution was figured out. Barricade him in on his acre. We used to bulldoze, pile dirt, etc away from his home to be polite. Now we're hiring a 5 strand tight barb wire around, with bulldozing 10-20-30 feet high mound of dirt/gravel/etc. which we can do. To think about 10 years back the first time we tried to be civil and kind and discussed lets maybe let him cut a lane north from his box stand on the land. Sorta work together a bit to get this ridiculous shooting to stop so we feel safe having our kids hunt here someday and ourselves. We wanted to just know who is it kinda? Is he of sound mind etc. We all recall the horrible ordeal in Wisc. I guess we're not sure what we're dealing with but grandpa said funds aren't a problem. Whatever it takes was the finale. Grandpa ok'ed everything on the table. Will find out much more tomorrow. 

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I would get the DNR involved to witness and have hunter harassment charges brought.  poopty situation all around. What's wrong with people?!!?

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So... He wins and you are building him an even better gun range. 

Its his ground. If he wants to use it for a gun range that's his choice. By putting up a 20' tall pile of dirt all the way around you are making it an even better more inviting gun range. 

Good luck as this drama continues, but Hunter harassment is hard to prove. And he has a solid backstop. Not much you can do. Short of putting 25 hunters around the fence line so he has no direction to shoot without shooting "at" someone. 

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How are you guys doing at getting your Deer with all this shooting going on? Some Deer get use to noises and activity around them after a while. But, it does suk! :(

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You can pick your nose, your seat, your friends, but when it comes to neighbors and family, you have no choice.

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I must be missing something.....as I understand it, it's his property, right? Why are you even hunting there??!! I'd tell him to shove it with some help, then hunt somewhere else.

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On 7/31/2016 at 0:18 AM, O.T.C. said:

...has a box stand on it that he hunts opening day. No problem. Then, after that AM sit he and others, when they see my buddies open the gate to head in on PM hunts or to make a drive they have a dirt mound on this 1.3 acres and they shoot dozens if not hundreds of rounds and this goes on until seasons end...

Opening morning find a new place to hunt, and find a non-hunting friend that wants to do a lot of target practice near this guy's place. 

Really like your bulldozing idea.  Be careful about changing water course and damming him in.

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I don't think that the person is breaking any law and I am certain that no prosecutor would take a hunter harassment case for just shooting guns.   Not much the law can do IMO.

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OK, new reports most are missing the deal here. Friends have 630 acres and this guy off the hwy has 1.3 acres which connects to this large chunk and no his dirtmound isn't stopping squat, we found hundreds of rounds in the trees just behind it and those trees are on this farm, no wonder a friend reported hearing bullets sizzle in close to his stand. Anyway we've begun work and these guys are clowns with a capital C, anyone who is yelling/swearing at a 97 year old world war 2 veteran is a low life like Colin Kaepernick in my book. We bulldozed inside the property line by 10 feet or so. We found an old car, old paint and spray cans, all kinds of junk they threw onto the farm and found freshly cut oak all over in there so now we're in the process of 5 strand barb wiring around this guys place. Next Spring cattle will be going in and that's a part of the work we have to get done anyway regardless of the insane gunfire. His shed a part is on the farm also so we'll see if the guys leave that alone or make him tear it down and move it, all these things could've been avoided years ago but you can't reason with the insane so we're just gonna do what needs to be done. Their shooting bench was also on this farm so my buddy told him to move it by Friday, it wasn't so he just drove it over as it's in our way, see they expanded their tiny chunk by a bunch and that's just not gonna work just like if I lived on your property edge and left an old leaking car, oil, etc. cut your trees without asking and shot 300 rounds per day during deer season, you'd all be thrilled I bet. 

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It's still his ground and you are still building him a better gun range. He still wins. 

Just because your friend has 630acres and he has 1.5 doesn't give either one more rights to use it than the other. 

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1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

Build a little hunting shack within 500 feet of the property and occupy it.  He then needs written permission to shoot at all.

Best idea yet! ;)

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Since it sounds like he didn't have an adequate backstop and bullets where leaving his range, he was cutting trees on someone elses land, he built a shed over the line, set up his shooting bench over the line, and used the neighboring property as a garbage dump has there been any thought into involving the local authorities?  Sounds like he's got several offenses there and its good to get a guy like this on the radar of law enforcement in case things escalate after all the new construction the boys have been doing. 

I think everyone needs to be careful in these situations.  We hear far too often how 2 neighbors in a pissing match turns tragic. You aren't dealing with a guy who plays with a full deck so you never know how he's going to react to all these new changes.  He'll likely feel like he's getting pushed around and some guys don't react kindly to that even if he is in the wrong.  You don't want to be the next tragic news story of someone getting killed by an insane neighbor.  I'm not saying the steps being taken are wrong I think it just needs to be handled carefully and due to all of the bullets leaving the range and the other violations law enforcement should be made aware.  Ideally they should have been brought in long ago.

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Document, call law enforcement, and don't retaliate.  Or do the opposite.  You're call.  But meddle too much with his goings-on, and when you do actually get to the point of calling LEO, he may already have documented his shooting bench being run over on "his land", etc. and you'll have a much harder time proving you are in the right.

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Guys the shooting bench is on our land if I can call it that, he isn't calling no law, if he was in the right he would've by now. It's really out of my hands I don't care what shakes out really. I'll have the boys read what's been posted so far. They'll do what they want to. It's their farm in the will. The clown admitted the bench was not on his land. He admitted the old car was on ours as well as the garbage we found, the freshly cut oaks, etc. He head down admitted to everything. We said you can have a few weeks to get things cleaned up etc. He then said his son and cronies are the ones and we said that you better have a chat with them asap. So it's getting cleared up we think. Tempers have settled down and now were just doing what grandpa wants done so the cattle can use that part of the farm as we get it fenced in. We still wonder if the shooting will stop or not, time will tell November 5th we'll have that answer. Thank god I do not hunt deer there, I have a very awesome neighboring landowner named "frosty" on here and I couldn't be happier our property lines meet, great respectful guy and isn't that the way it should be ?

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And we will frosty lol ! One thing I should mention a bit is yes these crazy guys that are blasting away all season long to aggravate my friends and ruin their peaceful hunt is...... one of the many many times this has gone on we all went over to the property line and eyed up this rifle range they sorta have going. They are not using targets so we know they are not sighting in so to speak, they have an old refrigerator that they are just hammering away into. Told my friends what's wrong with this picture they couldn't quite get my drift. I said "where's their targets"? There aren't any ever so that's really how we for sure figured out years back this is just to be a bother to you guys. Any of you guys out there that sight in on the door handle to the freezer part ? I doubt it.

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O.T.C. - Have whoever hunts there every year go to court and obtain a harassment restraining order against the guy. It's clearly harassing behavior, and the court will probably issue the order. Given the fact that he is shooting onto your land while hunters are sitting out there in the trees, you might be able to obtain an order for protection against him. If he violates the OFP, the cops can arrest him. This might be the best way to get law enforcement involved. The judge has the power to fashion the order so he can do his target shooting outside the deer hunting season. The judge can even order that the guy not possess firearms.

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Not sure why the law wasnt involved years ago.  No way would I put up with that, I wouldve called the very first if not the second time it happened.  He has a right to shoot but not on your property.  I would not build him a shooting range.  The cattle is a good idea.

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      River level is 6.2 feet at Guttenberg and is expected to fall slowly and stabilize near 5 feet. Water temperature is 76 degrees at Lock and Dam 10. Walleye - Fair: Water levels are at a good level to find walleyes on wing dams. Use a 3-way rig with a floating jig and a worm. Yellow Perch - Fair: Perch bite has been spotty, but some nicer ones are being caught with live minnow rigs. Northern Pike - Excellent: This time of year, pike are attracted to cooler water coming in from springs and tributaries. Channel Catfish - Good: Try cut bait or stink bait in the main and side channel borders. Largemouth Bass - Good: With lower water levels, bass will be pulling out to wing dams and structure along the main channel. Smallmouth Bass - Good: Find smallmouth along shorelines in slight current off rocky points. White Bass - Fair: Cast flashy spinners or crankbaits along the rocks in main channel current for big white bass. Bluegill - Excellent: Use light tackle tipped with small piece of worm under a bobber in 4-6 feet of water. Freshwater Drum - Excellent: Freshwater drum are actively biting in areas of current. Drop a heavily weighted worm rig into the current for some big fish action. Black Crappie - Good: Try tube jigs or minnow under a bobber in submersed trees in the backwater sloughs.  Upper Mississippi River levels are leveling off this week with good water clarity, but lots of vegetation present. Boaters should use caution with the lower water with wing dams and sandbars now at or just below the water surface. As water levels settle back to summer lows, look for fish along side channels as the temperatures warm up. Water temperatures are in the upper 70's to low 80's.   Mississippi River Pool 12
      Water levels are 6.1 feet at the Dubuque Lock and Dam and 8.6 feet at the RR bridge. Expect water levels to drop slowly this upcoming week. Water clarity is good. The water temperature is around 81 degrees. Channel Catfish - Excellent:Try stink bait or worms near shore. Freshwater Drum - Excellent: Most anglers use a simple egg sinker and worm rig. Drum will be hanging out relatively near shore in moderate current areas. Largemouth Bass - Excellent: Largemouth bass are being caught along flooded weed lines and in weedy backwater using lures like scum frogs.  White Bass - Good: Look for schools of white bass feeding on the surface in the morning and evenings. Bluegill - Good: Try along the vegetation lines in 4 to 6 feet of water. Flathead Catfish - Good: Current areas along rocks are starting to again produce some nice eating sized flathead catfish. Walleye - Good: Use crankbaits on the wing dams. White Crappie - Good: Try small minnows in newly exposed brush piles along major side channels or deeper backwater areas. Smallmouth Bass - Good: Use spinners or crankbaits along rocky areas with strong current.  Mississippi River Pool 13
      Water level is 6.5 feet at the Bellevue Lock and Dam. Expect water levels to recede this upcoming week. Water clarity is good. The water temperature is around 82 degrees. The north ramp at Sabula is not in use this year due to bridge construction.  Channel Catfish - Excellent: Try stink bait or worms near shore. Move often if you are not finding catfish. Freshwater Drum - Excellent: The drum bite is on. Fish worms with an egg sinker in moderate current areas. Fish near the shorelines if possible. Largemouth Bass - Excellent: Most are feeding along the edge of weed lines. Use a bright colored spinner that imitates minnows. Try also frog imitation lures in the weedy backwaters. White Bass - Good: Look for feeding schools of white bass in the morning and evenings. Small spinners and white jigs work best. Bluegill - Good: Bluegills have returned  to the creel. Try fishing along vegetation lines in 4 to 6 feet of water. Flathead Catfish - Good: Try live bait in high current areas or above large brush piles.  Smallmouth Bass - Good: Focus on rock lines and piles with strong current. Spinners, jigs and crankbaits work best. White Crappie - Good: Some nice crappies were reported coming out of deeper backwater areas along newly exposed brush piles.  Mississippi River Pool 14
      Water levels are 6.1 feet at Fulton Lock and Dam, 10.2 feet at Camanche and 5 feet at LeClaire. Expect water levels to drop this upcoming week. Water clarity is fair. The water temperature is around 82 degrees. Channel Catfish - Excellent: Try stink bait or worms near shore or along brush piles. Freshwater Drum - Excellent: Use a simple egg sinker/worm rig in moderate current areas. Find fish near the shoreline in flooded conditions. Largemouth Bass - Good: Bright colored spinners fished along flooded shorelines are picking up some bass. White Bass - Good: Some schools of white bass have been seen in the tailwater area. Use bright jigs or flashy lures. Smallmouth Bass - Fair: Focus on rock lines and rock piles with strong current. Flathead Catfish - Good: Some flatheads are hitting crankbaits and jigs along rocky areas. Anglers are using live baits on trot lines with some success. Bluegill - Good: Lower ends of Rock Creek and Catfish Slough have produced some nice bluegills; mainly using worms and bobbers. White Crappie - No Report: Try newly exposed brush piles with small minnows and jigs.  Mississippi River Pool 15
      Water levels are 6.3 feet at Rock Island. Expect water levels to drop this upcoming week. Water clarity continues to improve. The water temperature is around 82 degrees. Channel Catfish - Excellent: Try stink bait or worms near shore. Freshwater Drum - Excellent: Use an egg sinker and worm rig fished near shore in moderate current areas. Flathead Catfish - Good: Use live bait above large dead falls. Smallmouth Bass - Fair: Try spinners, jigs and crankbaits in rock lines and piles with strong current.  Water levels are receding throughout the district. Levels are below what anglers have seen in a few years. Be careful boating; many underwater hazards are now exposed. If you have any angling questions, please contact the Bellevue Fisheries Station 563-872-4976.   
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