VW--Oooopsie

[Ufatz]

Well ST...you pose an interesting question.  How about if I send if off to MIT and NASA to see whether they can come up with a cogent and easily understood answer for you. Surely somebody has the time, money and intellectual energy to achieve this vitally needed information!

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

[delcecchi]

In the ussa or europe?

 

What's the (real world) difference in impact in terms of overall emissions between diesel cars that are getting between 60 and 90 mpg, and gasoline powered cars that get from 20 to 40 mpg?

And what's the impact in terms of loss of tax revenue for diesels?

Emission standards appear to be grams per mile, so fuel mileage seems to be irrelevant, except as it affects emissions.  those  carbon molecules gotta go somewhere. 

USA doesn't appear to have a carbon (co2) emission limit.  So you are allowed to breathe, for the time being. 

[swamptiger]

In the ussa or europe?

 

Emission standards appear to be grams per mile, so fuel mileage seems to be irrelevant, except as it affects emissions.  those  carbon molecules gotta go somewhere. 

USA doesn't appear to have a carbon (co2) emission limit.  So you are allowed to breathe, for the time being. 

Ok, so what's the difference in nitrogen oxide emissions per mile between a diesel engine getting 60 mpg versus a gas engine getting 30 mpg?  

Seems like a fairly straight forward question to me.

 

 

[delcecchi]

 

Ok, so what's the difference in nitrogen oxide emissions per mile between a diesel engine getting 60 mpg versus a gas engine getting 30 mpg?  

Seems like a fairly straight forward question to me.

 

 

I believe the standards are the same as set by the epa for the US, although there is some "bin1-bin8 stuff which I don't quite get. 

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/standards/light-duty/tier2stds.htm

Edited October 12, 2015 by delcecchi

[delcecchi]

First reparations on their way....

Volkswagen to Offer $1,000 Package to U.S. Customers Hit by Emissions Scandal

Company says the package of loyalty cards and roadside assistance is a “first step” to rebuilding trust among consumers

 

By

Sarah Sloat

Nov. 9, 2015 11:57 a.m. ET

 

FRANKFURT— Volkswagen AG said Monday it would offer a $1,000 goodwill package to U.S. customers whose diesel vehicles are affected by the emissions scandal as a “first step” in the German car maker’s effort to rebuild trust among consumers.

As part of the package, Volkswagen is offering $500 to customers in the form of a prepaid Visa loyalty card. It is also offering a $500 Dealership Card that can be used at participating Volkswagen dealers.

The goodwill package also includes use of a free 24-hour roadside assistance program for three years. A Volkswagen spokeswoman said the company couldn’t yet quantify the value of the program.

“We are working tirelessly to develop an approved remedy for affected vehicles,” said Michael Horn, the head of Volkswagen Group of America, who called the package “a first step towards regaining our customers’ trust.”

Volkswagen plunged into crisis in mid-September when U.S. regulators said the auto maker had installed software in millions of vehicles that enabled them to dodge emissions standards.

The software also affects Volkswagen’s Audi brand, among others. Audi will also offer a goodwill package in the coming days, Volkswagen said.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-to-offer-1-000-package-to-u-s-customers-hit-by-emissions-scandal-1447088254

 

[RebelSS]

Hmmm...think I'll go buy a $500 used one no one wants...

[LMITOUT]

First reparations on their way....

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-to-offer-1-000-package-to-u-s-customers-hit-by-emissions-scandal-1447088254

 

So not only do VW owners have a vehicle that is superior in every way, thanks to ingenious engineering to circumvent moronic and pointless EPA standards, they are also getting $1000?

#winning

[Jeremy airjer W]

So not only do VW owners have a vehicle that is superior in every way, thanks to ingenious engineering to circumvent moronic and pointless EPA standards, they are also getting $1000?

#winning

Well, that's one way of looking at it.........

[delcecchi]

So not only do VW owners have a vehicle that is superior in every way, thanks to ingenious engineering to circumvent moronic and pointless EPA standards, they are also getting $1000?

#winning

Not sure about the superior part, and it remains to be seen how they will perform after mandatory "fix" is installed, but yes they get $500 cash plus $500 merch from dealer.  That is for starters. 

[LMITOUT]

Screw the "fix".  They were fixed when they left the factory.  

Ruining performance and shortening engine life doesn't sound like much a "fix" to anyone with a lick of common sense.

[delcecchi]

Screw the "fix".  They were fixed when they left the factory.  

Ruining performance and shortening engine life doesn't sound like much a "fix" to anyone with a lick of common sense.

Nobody said common sense, they just have to comply with the law like everyone else.   At least some states will make having the fix done a requirement for getting license plate tabs renewed. 

[RebelSS]

The latest...

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/ceo-volkswagen-u-s-steps-down-amid-emissions-scandal-n535691

[delcecchi]

Even more latest......

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-11/vw-toys-with-giving-up-the-u-s-mass-market-and-dealers-fume

VW Toys With Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume

David Welch

Christoph Rauwald Rauwald

March 11, 2016 — 8:34 AM PST

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Volkswagen's U.S. CEO Departs Suddenly

• Sudden departure of top executive in America fuels concerns
• `They don't have a single product people will pay premium for'

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The suggestion was startling: Maybe VW should give up on selling cars to America’s masses.

It was late January, at the Detroit auto show, and Herbert Diess, the global chief of Volkswagen AG’s namesake brand, was sounding out U.S. dealers as the company grappled with the biggest crisis in its modern history. Perhaps, Diess wondered aloud, VW should stop trying to compete with the likes of Toyota Motor Corp. in America and go back to focusing on higher-end models.

“It was near crickets in the room,” said Alan Brown, chairman of VW’s U.S. dealer council.

 

After stunned silence came anger, Brown said. He and 11 other dealers are heading to company headquarters in Wolfsburg, Germany, next week to tell executives they fervently oppose throwing in the towel on the mass market. They want the company to stick to the commitments it has made for new models and keep U.S. prices where they are now.

Diess’s trial balloon underscores how VW is struggling to regain its footing in the wake of the diesel-emissions scandal, which sent sales plummeting. Returning to the days when it was a boutique brand in the U.S. -- more like Subaru or Mazda -- would be a turnabout by a company that aimed to more than triple sales in the country and overtake Toyota as the world’s largest and most profitable carmaker. It would also be an admission that the VW reputation is so damaged that it simply can’t go head-to-head with the biggest players in the world’s most lucrative market.

At a minimum, the lofty U.S. sales targets set by former CEO Martin Winterkorn are under review and could be gone. Diess wants to focus on improving pricing and profits with better sport utility vehicles, instead of chasing big numbers, said a person familiar with the matter. Volkswagen hasn’t firmed up a plan to return to the premium price strategy in the U.S., the person said.

Horn’s Departure

For the more than 600 VW dealers in the U.S., it would be a disaster, Brown said. “We’ve got to be a real brand -- and that means you have to go after sales volume. Anything else will be unacceptable.”

 

Volkswagen of American spokeswoman Jeannine Ginivan declined to comment on the possible shift in strategy.

The automaker was caught last year cheating on California and U.S. emissions tests for its four-cylinder diesel engines. Winterkorn resigned, and VW is facing lawsuits and massive fines. It’s yet to come up with a solution to bring its diesel cars into compliance.

The sudden departure Wednesday of Volkswagen of America Chief Executive Officer Michael Horn -- who drove the mass-market push -- fueled concerns that a complete shift in U.S. strategy might be gathering steam in Germany, said Brown, co-owner of two VW dealerships in suburban Dallas.

He said dealers want Volkswagen to stick with its current blueprint, and keep prices low enough for mainstream consumers. Dealers invested a lot in their showrooms and need bigger sales volume to make a profit on their bigger, more expensive stores, he said.

‘Severely Damaged’

The National Automobile Dealers Association said in a statement Thursday the brand has been “severely damaged” and dealerships have been hit hard. “A critical step in this recovery will be for VW to honor the future product plan that Mr. Horn and VW dealers fought vigorously for,” the trade group said.

When VW was gearing up for its mass-market push, its Passat mid-sized sedan had a base price of around $28,000 -- $8,000 more than a like-sized Toyota Camry. VW sold 11,000 Passats in the U.S.; Toyota sold 350,000 Camrys. But Volkswagen hadn’t been looking for big numbers. The emphasis had been on engineering and driving performance, and the sticker prices meant the cars weren’t for everyone.

Then Winterkorn set a sales goal of 800,000 vehicles by 2018. He spent $1 billion on a plant in Tennessee that would make less expensive models with nonunion workers. The Jettas and Passats weren’t as snazzy, but they had a different mission. “We have to bring the masses to VW,” Mark Barnes, the company’s then-chief operating officer in the U.S., said in 2010.

Fahrvergnugen Campaign

It seemed to work for a while, with sales going from 213,454 in 2009 to peak at 438,133 in 2012. Last year, they were already slipping when the emission scandal broke, and they finished down 5 percent at just under 350,000.

The brand has taken many turns in the U.S. In the ’60s and ’70s, the company sold hip Beetles and Buses for cheap. Next came the higher-quality, fun-to-drive era, backed by the Fahrvergnugen -- German for “driving enjoyment” -- ad campaign of the ’90s. VW enjoyed cult status through the 2000s, said Eric Noble, president of CarLab, a consulting firm. In 2005, when former Chairman Ferdinand Piech was still in charge, VW even tried to move into the luxury market with the Phaeton sedan -- priced at $85,000.

Now, after aiming for the masses, VW would have trouble turning back to boutique status, Noble said. “They have already eroded their ability to charge premium prices. They don’t have a single product that people will pay a premium for.”

Many dealers used to have small showrooms, or shared space with Mazda dealers. The investment in the plant and promise of lower price points persuaded dealers to build bigger lots and nicer showrooms, Brown said, estimating they collectively spent more than $1 billion sprucing their shops up.

“Volkswagen dealers don’t want to sue,” Brown said. “But if you take away our future, on top of you plugged us with a bad name with this EPA scandal, it’s a double cut. We have no choice. We have to take action.”

[delcecchi]

And the first step in settlement...

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-0422-volkswagen-diesel-fix-20160421-story.html

Quote

Volkswagen has agreed to the ground rules of a plan to compensate drivers of nearly 500,000 diesel-engine vehicles that were rigged to cheat on emissions tests, a federal judge said Thursday.

U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer said at a hearing in San Francisco that the automaker reached the broad outlines of a deal that would include buying back or fixing the cars to meet emissions standards, along with “substantial compensation” for car owners.

Details of the plan weren’t revealed, but the proposal applied to the 2-liter diesel vehicles involved in the case. VW also must deal with an additional 80,000 3-liter vehicles equipped with the faulty systems.

Reportedly a billion bucks for openers..  just to deal with the owners.  Judge had given them until monday or the lawsuit process towards trial would begin. 

[LMITOUT]

Faulty systems?  Designing a car to operate at its full potential isn't "faulty".

Only in this day of perverted common sense would a company be forced to reimburse the consumer for giving them a superior product.  Pathetic.

[delcecchi]

Give me a break.  They lied and sold people something that was not what they said it was.  Even to a Libertarian that is fraud.

[leech~~]

10 hours ago, LMITOUT said:

Faulty systems?  Designing a car to operate at its full potential isn't "faulty".

Only in this day of perverted common sense would a company be forced to reimburse the consumer for giving them a superior product.  Pathetic.

Faulty systems- Pathetic. "Flint Michigan"

[LMITOUT]

2 hours ago, delcecchi said:

Give me a break.  They lied and sold people something that was not what they said it was.  Even to a Libertarian that is fraud.

Yeah, I just hate getting a better product than what I paid for.  

What a rip off, said no one ever.

 

[delcecchi]

Unless they live in California where they won't be able to renew the license plates....

[LMITOUT]

Except that was the entire beauty of the way they designed the code...they WOULD pass AND you'd still have a vehicle that the owner deserved for the money they were paying when they weren't getting a hose shoved up their tailpipe, both literally and figuratively. 

#brilliant

 

[Big Dave2]

Quote

Volkswagen Said to Be Close to Settling Justice Inquiry Into Emissions

By JACK EWING, HIROKO TABUCHI and BEN PROTESSJAN. 6, 2017

 

Volkswagen employees watched Matthias Müller, the chief executive, addressing a meeting at the automaker’s headquarters in March in Wolfsburg, Germany. CreditOdd Andersen/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

Volkswagen is nearing a deal to pay more than $2 billion to resolve a federal criminal investigation into its cheating on emissions tests, according to three people briefed on the negotiations.

The company or one of its corporate entities is expected to plead guilty to criminal charges as part of the deal, according to one of the people, although what those charges might be is unclear. The settlement could come as early as next week, barring any last-minute hiccups, those people said.

The German automaker is eager to put the Justice Department investigation behind it before President-elect Donald J. Trump is sworn in on Jan. 20, according to two others familiar with the company’s position.

An intensive investigation into the manipulation of diesel emissions tests began more than a year ago, and involves American and German investigators and prosecutors. A resolution of the criminal investigation in the United States would allow Volkswagen to try to move past a scandal that has hobbled its diesel car business.

 

The criminal case against Volkswagen, and the potential for a guilty plea, have set it apart from other recent auto industry investigations. In settlements with General Motors and Toyota over their handling of safety defects, for example, the companies agreed to pay large fines, but did not plead guilty.

Prosecutors are also mulling criminal charges against Takata, the Japanese manufacturer under criminal investigation for its defective airbags.

It is unclear whether prosecutors would also charge Volkswagen employees, but high-ranking Justice Department officials have forecast the possibility.

“We will follow the facts wherever they go, and we will determine whether to bring criminal charges against any companies or individual wrongdoers,” Sally Q. Yates, the United States deputy attorney general, said last year at a news conference.

American prosecutors have also traveled to Germany in recent months to interview Volkswagen executives, according to German prosecutors. In addition, the Justice Department has assured witnesses that they will not be arrested if they travel to the United States for questioning, according to a defense lawyer involved in the case as well as one witness, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity. German suspects cannot be arrested by the United States in their home country, which normally does not extradite its own citizens.

 

How Volkswagen Is Grappling With Its Diesel Scandal

Volkswagen has admitted that 11 million of its vehicles were equipped with software that was used to cheat on emissions tests. The company is now contending with the fallout.

 

It is not clear if any of the suspects, who include former Volkswagen managers and engineers involved in diesel engine development, have accepted the offer. The offers typically allow witnesses to travel to the United States and back without fear of arrest, but do not include a guarantee they will not be charged in the future.

Volkswagen acknowledged in 2015 that it had fitted 11 million diesel cars worldwide with illegal software that made the vehicles capable of defeating pollution tests. The software enabled the cars to detect when they were being tested for emissions, and turn on pollution-control systems to curb emissions at the cost of engine performance. But those emissions controls were not fully deployed on the road, where cars spewed nitrogen oxide at up to 40 times the levels allowed under the Clean Air Act.

Volkswagen has already agreed to pay up to nearly $16 billion to resolve civil claims in what has become one of the United States’ largest consumer class-action settlements ever, involving half a million cars.

Under the settlement, most car owners have the option of either selling their vehicles back to Volkswagen, or getting them fixed, granted the automaker could propose a fix that satisfied regulators.

The Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board on Friday approved the first of those fixes, covering about 58,000 newer cars.

The scandal has affected a range of Volkswagen and Audi models, including the Audi A3, Volkswagen Beetle, Golf, Jetta and Passat diesel cars. It was brought to light in September 2015, when the Environmental Protection Agency accused Volkswagen of using software to detect when the cars were undergoing testing.

Along with the American and German investigators and prosecutors, the inquiry into the cheating has involved the law firm Jones Day, which was hired by Volkswagen to conduct an internal investigation.

The expected settlement was reported earlier by The Wall Street Journal.

Progress toward a resolution of the case has been frustrated by differences in German and American law and customs.

German prosecutors do not work out plea deals with suspects as routinely as prosecutors in the United States do. Punishments in the United States also tend to be harsher, and are seen as unacceptable by the German suspects.

One person has been convicted in the United States: James Liang, a former Volkswagen engineer who worked for the company in California.

Mr. Liang pleaded guilty in August to charges that included conspiracy to defraud the federal government and violating the Clean Air Act. He is expected to receive a reduced sentence in return for cooperating with investigators.

 

[delcecchi]

Thanks.   And once again all the people walk.    And life goes on, brah.  to quote the beatles. 

[Big Dave2]

23 hours ago, delcecchi said:

Thanks.   And once again all the people walk.    And life goes on, brah.  to quote the beatles. 

 

Because you think it is vital that these people be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?

[PurpleFloyd]

They should be commended for making an engine more efficient with better mileage and dependability.

[delcecchi]

16 hours ago, Big Dave2 said:

 

Because you think it is vital that these people be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?

 

Seems like someone should be prosecuted to some extent, at least it seems so to me.   Sort of like John Corazine should have done time.