Generator Vs. Solar

[MJBaldwin]

I know this isn’t for my home but I thought I would come to you experts first and see what you say this is for my hunting shack that we have no power at we have been using Coleman lanterns which produce about 1000 lumens per lantern...

We are thinking about getting a generator and just running some of those clamp on lights that you can buy at home depot for

5-10 bucks. This way we would run a few inside and probably one outside for when we are cooking and what not. This would be just using extension cords back to the generator..

Next option I’m thinking is getting some led 12v flood lights I found on the e to the bay….. These say they produce 1000 lumens as well this would be a nice option so we are not dealing with gas and what not. The issue I am having is I have no idea how long my deep cycle would last with these running? I just bought a new deep cycle for my boat that I would bring up and then bring back down to charge when we are not there.

The battery is from Walmart is a 29DC and has 845 MCA if that helps any…

Along with that would possibly be a few solar panels I found a kit at harbor freight for about 150 on sale and wondering if something like that would work in order to charge the battery during the day and then when we get back in from hunting at night we can flip the lights on and repeat???

Any information on what you guys have done or do would be very helpful!!

Thanks

[leech~~]

If your just running a few light bulbs by the time you get the solar panels, mounting brackets, batteries and stuff to hook everything up. You may as well just get a cheap generator like this at Global, Northern or I think even Fleet has a low cost one. They should run a few light bulbs and maybe even a toaster! Grab a long cord with a 3 way on the end, plug, play, pack up done. Build a little 3 way lean-to box for the unit to sit under to keep the rain-snow off it and to throw some of the noise away from the cabin and your good to go!

All Power America APG3004D 1200W Max 1000W Rated 2 Stroke Generator

Item #: T9F249677

Sold By: globalindustrial.com

Usually ships in 2 to 5 days

Price: $168.95

Just checked and Fleet has a little more output and quieter 4 stroke for only $20 bucks more.

•2000 surge watts/1500 running watts

•4-stroke OHV engine

[loadmaster]

I run a deep cycle in our hunting trailer. We run as many as 6 lights at a time and the battery will last a good three days. If we know we need it to last longer, we are watchful of lights on that are not needed. We also carry an old car battery that seems to work well. For lights, we installed 12v lights that go in trailers, we picked them up for about $3.00 each. They use bulbs like you find in backup lights on older cars. We were thinking of going generator but found the cheaper ones were to loud and sucked gas which we did not want to haul

[delcecchi]

I took a quick look, and they are in the 20 watt range which is 2 amps.

If the batteries have a reserve capacity of 180 minutes, they are about 75 amp hours so they would run 1 lamp for 35 hours or 3 lamps for 12 hours. (actually probably a little longer due to lower discharge rate than reserve capacity is measured at.)

My back of envelope calculation

[Tom7227]

The deer shack that I used to go to was wired with 14-2 wire. Two 50 watt DC bulbs put into standard light sockets. Car radio on a timer. 12v Dc fan to move the air. Powered by 2 deep cycle batteries hooked together. It would last 3 days easy. Best part was no noise and no heat.

[Powerstroke]

I personally am fond of the solar/battery setup. Nothing annoys me more than stepping outside or standing outside at the grill and listening to an engine drone on for hours just so we can run a handful of light bulbs.

Del's calculations are pretty spot on. Although the initial cost is a little steep for the LED lighting, they will last longer than everything else in the setup. NO worry about breaking bulbs or them getting hot like those clamp on setups.

Your best investment is in a true deep cycle battery. Having two good batteries will be better than the largest solar panel. Most regular marine batteries will give you that 70-80 amp hours. With a single battery you will have 2-3 days capacity. Add a second battery and you've doubled your capacity. That way if its a cloudy rainy weekend you still have enough power, even when your panels aren't drawing anything to charge with.

On our camper, I have two deep-cycle golf cart batteries that have 240 amp hours of capacity. Also, since they are a true deep cycle, they are not harmed by being run way down. Yes, it would take a week to charge them back up completely by solar, but I can take them home and put the charger on them and they will be fully charged when we head to camp. Those batteries allow us to run anything we want for almost a week without charging.

The good news is, if you want to add a generator to the solar system, you can. Bring a small generator to charge up the batteries in a short amount of time and you dont need to let it run all night and you LED/low draw system will last for days on a single charge.

[MJBaldwin]

Thanks for the information you guys!

I am liking all your points about the noise and gas and that’s why we haven’t really done that way 100% yet... Yes 1lb tanks are a hassle but there easy... noise on the other hand well those little lanterns to produce some noise that is annoying but we have dealt with it.

I am looking at 5 lights total.. I am not sure if I can send the link through here but if you go over to the bay and search 10W 12V LED Floodlight. Those are the lights that I am looking at they produce roughly 900 lumens which is very comparable to what the lanterns produce.

As stated above that’s the only battery I really have and would like to use only one if possible. I am looking at the 45 watt solar kit that Harbor Freight provides which has basically everything I need to get it running in a decent state...

This would be a trail year I guess too see how everything works I am mainly worried about how long the battery would last? Am i setting myself up for disaster or is this a decent idea? I know people have done this for many things I just want to make sure that it would charge the battery that I use the night before back up to full?

Please shoot me any ideas that you might have with the season of hunting coming quick I would have to get a good jump start on this and pre-fab it at home then when I get there run some temporary wiring and lights until I could go up there and make it all clean cut looking....

[Tom7227]

The floodlights may end up giving a light that is directional rather than diffuse like a regular bulb.

I suspect that the size solar array that you are pricing may not have enough to keep things charged over an extended period of time. It may work if you use the cabin for a weekend and then leave it set up and charging during the week. Deer season is short days, sometimes cloudy and the chance of snow all meaning less than ideal conditions for solar.

[leech~~]

Reminder, when ever you do a solar kit to recharge batteries. AMP output is what you really want to look for not Watts.

[MJBaldwin]

Well I am not worried about when I leave the max I go for is the first weekend I go from Friday and leave tuesday during the day. 2nd & 3rd weekend is head over friday after work and stay until sunday midday...

I just dont want to dump a ton of money into the idea and have it work like dump. I understand your thoughts on those lights about diffusing the light just looking for about 5 lights around that same lumens and price point.... Also hoping that my standard battery will work.

I would bring home my battery after each weekend and charge at home so i am not relying on the solar over the week. Thats basically to make sure the battery stays topped off while up there.

[delcecchi]

my guess is that the 45 watt solar kit doesn't produce 45 watts for long or even ever in Minnesota in November. That said, it sure would help.

A 180 minute reserve capacity battery is about 70-80 amp hours, or 500 watt hours. So they would run 5x10 watt lamps for about 10 hours. The solar panel might extend that to 15 hours or so depending on weather (guess). You need 5 hours per day of light, you get 3 days, more or less.

[Powerstroke]

MJ, it seems as though you are caught up in the difference bwtween what the battery does and what the panel does.

The foundation of any good solar system is a large battery bank. The reason is the slow recharge rate of solar. As Del and others have noted, the panels you are looking at will produce 3amps/hr or about 45watts at peak capacity. So assume a safe guess of 2amps for 8-10 hours during the day and you will recharge about 16-20 amps during the day or about 20-25% at best.

If you're using 30-50% of the battery each day then you will be losing capacity each day. You'll be lucky to last 4 days.

There are quite a few ways to make this plan work. I would say the best way to make this plan workable is to rethink the lights you want to use. The lights you've chosen aren't typical for indoor lighting. Don't try so hard to match light output of a lantern, especially since LED lighting is whiter than gas lighting. Most LED RV lights provide plenty of lighting and do so for 1 amp or less. Some have 2 bulbs and you can switch one of them off when the extra light isn't needed.

If you feel like this is the best plan for you, consider where you want to invest your money. A solid solar system takes a big picture type plan. if you can't do it all in one year, split it up and get the rest next year. There are better panels and better power storage available.

[MJBaldwin]

Powerstroke:

I get the difference between the battery and the panel. I am just unsure how much those solar panels will actually charge the battery.. I am in a little debate with my buddy on which way we should go. I am liking the 12 volt system due to the fact it will be quite and then we can see in the morning as well without firing up a generator…

At first I was all for the generator seemed easy and we can get our “every day conveniences”. When I actually started looking into the whole thing I am gearing more away from the generator due to the fact of gas and noise even a Honda greats noise and uses gas.

The 12v system I would like a few extra lights more than what I probably would need. I know that Led is a different look than the propane lights. I also found this neat ceiling mounted fixture that I saw on this Autodesk Instructables HSOforum which was very neat and think that would work awesome.

So here is what I’m thinking and wondering. I make this charge center or operation center where I have batters on bottom and then all the wiring with switches to the other lights? I plan on only running the one battery for now. I have access to a co-workers generator I can bring this first season to see how long the batteries will last with our lighting situations….

Few random questions – what size wire should I use? Battery size big enough? Solar power worth it?

Any ideas or thoughts on this or should I just keep it the old 1 lb tanks??

[Scott K]

You would be better off investing in 2 good new marine batteries, and change over a couple LED lights. Then next year, adding a solar panel, to recharge the marine batteries. The small solar panel output is a maximum, in MN, in the winter, you will be lucky to get 1/3 the output from it at best. I personally have 4 marine batteries, and a couple solar panels powering up my hunting shack, but I use it more in the summer, then during hunting. I can make it 10 days during hunting with that set up. But what you have to remember, the solar panels produce very little when they are not getting direct sun light. In the fall/winter, there are only a couple hours of high sun to recharge your battery. Then factor in for a cloudy day, and if there is snow, or frost on the panel. In ideal fall conditions, your 1 battery wont last through 4 days.

[MJBaldwin]

Scott,

I am wondering would that battery last a day? two days? I talked about flood lights and other lights on here after doing some research. I would like to use those flodo lights (2 of them 10 w each) Then this cabin light which is made out of a rope light (6 amps or 74 watts?) and then a smalle light for out sleeping area ontop of this I would like to be able to run a coffee pot in the morning one of those 12v ones (13 amp/156-watt current draw).. Then I would use my co-workers generator to charge the battery (how long would it take something like that to charge?

Thanks again for all your guys help dont mean to be a pain when I was thinking the generator way it was much more simple for me to figure everything out when I started talking 12v im getting a little lost....

[Scott K]

The coffee pot will kill you. If you figure your battery has a reserve of 75-90 amps. and your coffee pot will take a good chunk of that. If you are just using the LED lights, your battery should work fine for a couple days.

[Scott K]

In fact, I have one of those coffee pots, they are dangerous, and they take a long time to brew coffee. Now I just use a coffee press from Target, $30, put the grounds in it, and pour in boiling water from the stove, or from the side burner on the grill.

[MJBaldwin]

scott,

Thanks for the information... I guess that was my biggest question was about the lights and how long my battery would last with this setup. Of course I am looking for something that is expensive but on a budget..

Biggest problem there is I dont own the property its my buddys dads and well you never know.. I dont pay for hunting so i feel like I could do something like this to "earn my stay"

I want to do the best option just dont know which way to go on the whole thing. I really like the idea of 12v so we dont have to deal with listening to a generator all night...

[Tom7227]

Use standard 14-2 with ground wire. That way if you do chose to up it to 110 you are still good to go. Out in standard household switches and you will have convenience. Be sure to put a fuse in the system so that if there is a problem you won't smoke the whole works.

It seems to me that the solar panel thing is not going to work out very well, especially if you intend to only have the battery hooked to it while you are up there. There isn't enough output to keep even with the use you have.

Two deep cycle batteries will last you more than the long weekend you are going to be there unless you leave the lights and everything else on 24/7.

[Big Dave2]

If your just running a few light bulbs by the time you get the solar panels, mounting brackets, batteries and stuff to hook everything up. You may as well just get a cheap generator like this at Global, Northern or I think even Fleet has a low cost one. They should run a few light bulbs and maybe even a toaster! Grab a long cord with a 3 way on the end, plug, play, pack up done. Build a little 3 way lean-to box for the unit to sit under to keep the rain-snow off it and to throw some of the noise away from the cabin and your good to go!

All Power America APG3004D 1200W Max 1000W Rated 2 Stroke Generator

Item #: T9F249677

Sold By: globalindustrial.com

Usually ships in 2 to 5 days

Price: $168.95

Just checked and Fleet has a little more output and quieter 4 stroke for only $20 bucks more.

•2000 surge watts/1500 running watts

•4-stroke OHV engine

This is pretty much what we use. Our shack is too deep in the woods to get much sunlight to any solar panels and we are only there about 6 or 8 days out of the year at the most.

[MJBaldwin]

Well all,

After a discussion with my buddy I think we are going to just bite the bullet and get a generator. I am looking at either the Honda 1000 or Generac 800.

Now a few questions that I have with these bad boys. Can we leave it outside overnight even in the winter? If there is no load on it will it "turn itself off (kind of like an air compressor?)" Ill the 800-1000 watt generator be enough just say I use incandescent lights... I plan on using say 5 @ 60 watts then maybe coffee maker and toaster in the morning (possibility since we will have the generator)

Thanks again for all your info again you guys. I am still a fan of the 12v system but I think with my situation on not "owning" the land/cabin I throw say 100 bucks on electrical wire and what not... Then I take my generator home no worries there.... If I get a fish house i will be very interested in adding a panel and 12 volt system!

[Ufatz]

Honda only. More than 1000 watts. Yes, you can leave it outside over night. Add up the total watts you need and then buy double the amount of generation.

Again: Honda (or Yamaha) generators, Nothing else. Be wise.

[Powerstroke]

The generator does not shut off on its own unless it runs out of gas. Speaking of which, most gens are rated to run 8hrs on average with a minimal load.

So you're talking about 4-5 75watt lights, plus light bulbs, plus extension cords and a surge protector since your generator will only have two outlets. Add in a generator and you're talking about $600-1300 based on the quality of your generator. You will be at ~400 watts, maybe more not counting the coffee maker. A 1000 watt gen will last about 5-6 hrs on that load. Use caution with moisture and long extension cords.

I realize running wire sounds like a pain and more permanent, but you could do the 12volt route for less including adding a second battery and no solar panel. You could walk away with everything but the wire and still be in good shape.

I realize its not all your decision, but I certainly wouldn't be throwing that much money around without a good comparison.

Either way will work for you. I apologize if it seems like I've been hammering on you. I'm not. I can tell you're genuinely trying to work through this. Both of your ideas will accomplish the same thing. However, the 12v system will be neater, safer, quieter, cheaper and has a greater ability to upgrade. The generator system will be simpler to accomplish and simpler to transport.

If you're really looking into some neat solar/12v power options check out Goal Zero. I use a couple of their items and they work great. I plan on adding one of their larger power storage options to my RV/camping/hunting setups.

[leech~~]

Now a few questions that I have with these bad boys. Can we leave it outside overnight even in the winter?

Hundreds of them sitting out all night on the lakes in this state during the winter hooked up to ice houses without an issue!

Like I stated above, build a small 3 sided lean-to box with one side open to cover it from snow & rain.

[MJBaldwin]

Powerstroke: I totally get it your not hammering at all just giving great advice.. He thinks 12v is "landscape lighting" he obviously hasn't done his research like I have but I guess ill just roll with it. I have looked at goal zero items and it's really neat. What size gauge wore would you use to wire up a few lights using 12volt?

Leech: that's what I thought but you never know I guess. These don't turn off when you have no load though?