Open Water Smallies

[Guest]

I posted this message on the Mille Lacs bulletin and those knuckleheads were preoccupied with where to find exotic dancers for a Mille Lacs bachelor party so I'll try here:I know that muskies are reportedly found in Open water on Mile Lacs but I was curious to know if anyone had ever tried to catch smallmouth suspended in open water. I've spoken with several guides and they say they rarely run into smallies out in the main lake. The reason for this query is I just got back from NH and we caught our biggest fish suspended out from main lake structure...likely feeding on the dominant pelagic baitfish (smelt) I know there are whitefish in Mille Lacs...anyone ever get one trolling open water while targeting walleyes? Just curious.

[EBass]

I'm sure they gotta. I remember reading somewhere and I believe it was Mille Lacs and they (waldo fisherman) were trying to vertical fish some deep rocks because the waldos were down there. But they never got the jigs to the bottom since the smallies were slamming it on the way down. Hmm...

Just something I read. I have never done open water smallie action. Good Luck.

[Guest]

Thank you EBass. I sure would like to know more details. Mille Lacs is tough because there is so much water and so much structure/cover that you really need to put in the time to target these open water opportunities. Time most of us don't have. It is easier to just fish the shorelines and reefs, they always produce. I want to target the open water because this is where you can find some Gorillas...You spend much time on Mille Lacs??

[fishfearme]

You can catch them in deep water, but odds are they won't be more than a few 100 yards away from some major rock structure. I've caught them in 20 feet on top water lures.

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Shut up and fish!

[EBass]

Not as much as I want to. Only a few times per year and that includes the winter.

You're right on the money with the rock reefs. I've seem some pigs along the deep break and on top to. Nice schools! Actually my biggest came from Mille Lacs last year 20.5 I think or maybe it was 20. White tube got her. But I did get a 20" last Sunday on the river.

You should work the reefs to get the skunk outa the way then go exploring. If nothing go back to the reefs again.

I just got a boat, but it's not made for Mille Lacs. 14' Jon boat. Maybe if I'm up there and it's calm, but she doesn't handle waves too well.

The only way you're going to find out forsure is put your time on the water. But Mille Lacs is the place to do it. Good luck, when are you going?

[Guest]

EBass We think a lot alike. That 14' Johnboat is what I cut my teeth on. I used to go up to Mille Lacs and just fish where I could get to "safely". I've had some rough days out there. I wouldn't recommend it if you're married with kids!!! I'm going up there tomorrow...Looking to try a few new spots. I caught/released two 21" smallies on opener..pigs! They both looked like they swallowed softballs. My biggest from up there is 21.25...middle of the day on the top of a reef. I really think they turn on mid day if there is ample (but still fishable) wind. Good Luck with the J-boat.

[Guest]

FFMe: You nailed it. You have to fish the spots where the big rocks bump into the deepest water. You fish Mille Lacs much? I try to fish elsewhere when I can but the potential for that 7 lb'er just keeps bringing me back...

[Guest]

EBass: 20" on what river...I have stayed away from the rivers so far this year (high water) I hope we get some stable weather to bring the water levels down. Are the rivers fishable? I would like to get on the Mississippi ASAP. Thatr J-boat is perfect for that. I used to spend a lot of time on the Croix with my 14' J-boat. Nice Smallies up there.

[Guest]

FFme: Nice couple of hours...I will hopefully get into them tomorrow...I wish I could get up there on weekdays. Any suggestions re: depth? I haven't been up there since mid June...They spawned late and had just finished up. Are they back on the typical summer time spots? When are you going up there next?

[Guest]

EBass: I'll always have my J-boat...I'm huge on putzing and have customized it with a casting platform, wiring, etc. I mostly use it for waterfowl now ( built a removable blind) My fishing buddy lives in an apt. and stores his 17' lund at my house. I use his boat for most of my fishing. Nice!
I don't expect you to give up your honey hole. I'm just glad the river is dropping. As far as J-boats on Mille Lacs...watch the wind, there are enough spots and accesses on the lake where you can usually get on and fish without being blown off the lake. It is mostly traversing the main lake from bay to bay that can get rough. I took my boat out to Spirit island once (not recommended) and spent more time in the air than in the water. I got a hot tip of big smallies moving up into the shallows so I had to go. I got out there and it was so windy I couldn't even wet a line and turned around and went right back into the relative safety of Cove bay.

[Guest]

Jim W: I'm still really new at this...please explain to me what is meant by Archive research? Asome instructions as to how to access old info would be most appreciated. If there is info re: this topic I'd really like to dig it up.

[EBass]

Bronzeback,

If we ever hook up and fish I'd share, but no way on this heavily read site. I wonder how many people just read what we all write and aren't even an FM member?? Hmm..

That's how I started. Gotta go.

[Jim W]

Bronzeback,

There is a search box on the main page/lower right.
Might be qucker to post a question to Toad in the Brainerd Forum.

There might even be some current info on it as well as clicking on past pages, searching that route too!

If you run into any trouble give a holler.
However, Toad should reply to you in a reasonable amount of time.

I just got back from an outing experiencing this incredible Deep water open water trolling!!! Nothing like catching trophy walleye over 80-90 feet of water!

Jim W

[fishfearme]

I fish Mille Lacs alot. Had a good day up there on tuesday. caught 30 fish off of one spot in a couple of hours. Went looking for deep fish but didn't find any. I just got some pictures back last night. I should try to post them, but I need help doing that.

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Shut up and fish!

[EBass]

Bronzeback,

The rivers are fishable in some areas. And the water is starting to drop. I was out last Sunday so I'm sure it dropped alot by now.

I don't want to give up the name of my gem. It get's pressured enough. I hope you understand, however with that being said the upper croix is a hoot. My personal best day on the water for smallies is 25 in one day. The biggest was 19.5 and a lot of 18 and 17 inch fish to, heck I don't think any were smaller than 15".

Also the Mississippi in the metro holds nice smallies to. People don't fish for them, so they're not pressured as much as my other place.

But of course the further north you go the better it gets and more scenic to.

Do you still have you're jon boat or have you graduated into a real boat that can handle Mille Lacs?

[Jim W]

Bronzeback,

I highly recommend you do a little archive research here, looking for said topics. "Toad"
from the Brainerd forum is our expert on Open water trolling for trophy walleye, Northern, Musky and Bass.

Check it out! Tons of solid and interesting reading!!!!

Jim W

[EBass]

Bronze back.

I went to my gem and got a wee little northern. The water levels were back to normal. I actually like fishing hig water better.

[Toad]

Hello Bronzeback,

Sorry for not responding sooner, but for whatever it's worth . . .

In maybe 80% of the lakes we troll openwater for walleye, pike or muskies, smallmouth bass also reside. In Minnesota, most of these pelagic patterns base themselves on dwarf ciscoes, although fisheries like Lake of the Woods and Rainy host smallmouths that focus on suspended rainbow smelt, as you mentioned.

For me, catching suspended smallmouth on trolled diving plugs hasn't been a real common occurence, and yet, it happens just often enough to make you realize that it's far from a fluke. Thing is, though, the movement can be strong on one lake, and then, seemingly non-existent on another. Mille Lacs, for example, despite hosting plenty of ciscoes, doesn't appear to offer the pattern in any consistent way. (At least, we've never gotten one on Mille Lacs while plying openwater.) Conversely, some of the cisco-based lakes up around the Longville area definitely experience openwater smallmouth movements.

If you're observing blow-ups over deepwater, the best method that I've found for taking these fish isn't a topwater plug, as might seem obvious, but rather a large freelined baitfish, such as a lively golden shiner, allowed to swim freely in a particular zone for a sustained period of time. I believe smallmouths that feed on these pelagic baitfish (ciscoes, smelt) often are making brief and frenzied trips from an adjacent structure into these confined areas of deep openwater. This behavior is a bit different from walleyes and certainly, salmon, which often swim leisurely alongside schools of suspended baitfish for extended periods, often venturing a mile or more away from the nearest structural piece.

Finally, consider the body shape and coloration of smallmouth bass. They're built to feed most efficiently in tight quarters close to cover objects, such as boulders, certainly using their brown skin-tone to blend in with the background, while they make short but intense feeding "attacks." Within the context of a pelagic environment then, smallmouths appear a bit out of their element. In other words, they might only choose to feed out there if a very good opportunity presents itself. Feeding in openwater necessitates a need to feed in a rapid, yet sustained fashion, which likely tires a smallmouth somewhat more rapidly than a fish more suited to pelagic hunting. But as we're continuing to see, these movements do offer a legitimate opportunity to catch of number of large fish rather quickly.

Again, perhaps the best way to begin to approach these fish is to position on classic smallmouth structures that lie immediately accessible to the largest section of deepwater. Try casting suspending minnow plugs, such as a Husky Jerk, off the ends of these spots. Or, freeline or suspend a large lively baitfish beneath a slip float. If it's going to happen, these spots are where it'll most likely occur. It really all boils down to relative abundances of available smallmouth foods, and then, quick easy access to suspended baitfish directly near structure.

As an aside, for the past several years at bass tournaments on Rainy and LOTW, Ron Lindner has placed high in the standings by actually dragging a lightly weighted soft plastic (usually a black 6" Berkely Ribbontail worm) well behind the boat while moving slowly forward with the bow motor. The angler in the stern drags the plastic, while the bow angler may be casting something like a Husky Jerk out over these deep open basin areas.

For reference, two good pieces have been done on the subject. The best I've read was penned by Matt Straw of In-Fisherman in the April issue. And then in this month's North American Fisherman, a ghost-writer did a piece on the subject for Al Lindner. Enjoy your fishing! This is real pioneering we're talking about here, so let us know how your hunt goes.

-a friend,
Cory Schmidt

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 07-14-2003).]

[Guest]

Toad: Thank you for the comprehensive and articulate response. I will definitely let everyone know how things go...You mentioned in your response that Mille Lacs does have ciscoes...didn't know that. Are they a predominant prey species? If so, I've read that Ciscoes are often found suspended above the deepest parts of the lake...On ML we're talking only 40'. Also, since ML reportedly doesn't stratify (or so I've read) might this increase ones chances of them running into some of the structre that holds Smallies on say, the South end of the Lake. I read the article by Matt Straw in the Infisherman...He writes very useful article often broaching unried techniques. I'll look up the other article from NAF.I could talk about this stuff forever...Thank you for the info...look forward to bending your ear in the future.

[Toad]

Bronzeback,

Definitely wouldn't say that ciscoes are a primary forage species on ML, as the majority of them aren't the right size for smallmouth (or walleye) predation-- those classic "dwarf" ciscoes of 4 to 6-inches-- but rather, larger specimens running 10 to 20-inches. Perfect muskie and pike sized critters, but that's a different story.

So if you're seeing smalljaws busting bait off the ends of some of these structures, they could be chasing pods of shiners or young perch. But I just don't think you're likely to find many suspended smallmouths in ML-- no need for 'em to feed out there, as an abundant and diverse cross-section of bottom-oriented prey already exists-- crayfish, perch, shiners, troutperch, etc.

Finally, in terms of population, ciscoes in ML remain on a downward spiral-- actually have been, for many years. Not surprising really, given that we're at the extreme southern edge of their natural range. So there's that, and the continued declines in water quality over the past several decades, which also means lower dissolved oxygen levels in deeper water. Even despite the lack of a thermocline, which means the water column mixes and "turns over" numerous times in a season, declining water quality usually means increased fertility, which means higher water temps and less oxygen.

In many of the Great Lakes, as Straw's piece alludes to, the Clean Water Act (inadvertently coupled with zebra mussels) has cleared waters and improved water quality, which he states, has made a profound difference in the instances of pelagic smallmouth movements. In the case of ML, let's hope that tighter lakeshore septic standards will continue to improve the lake's water quality. Who knows what sort of interesting fishing patterns might emerge as a result?

-a friend,
Cory

[Guest]

Thanks Toad, Good point about smallies not needing another type of forage on ML. It can sometimes be difficult just zeroing in on what they're eating in shallow water. Useful info re: ML ciscoes. Do you know of any other lakes (south of the BWCA) where there might be an opportunity to chase open water smallies. I know I sound obsessed (aren't we all a little?) with this topic, it just seems like the best opportunities to target less pressured fish seem to be open water opportunities. With the pressure many of MN's lakes get, I'm just looking for places to try different applications. It also seems like when you do hit these open water fish, you run into gorillas...I got my 6+ I WANT MY 7!!! I'm going up to ML for the night bite this weekend so I'll probably have a new topic to rap about soon. Thank you for the input.