Is winning a tournement just luck?

[Guest]

Cline and Bosshart have been winning early tourneys for years. Berg and Block like deeper water fishing and typically do better later in the year. But anyway you look at it is that they are all good fisherman.

By the way Cline and Berg often fish tournements out on Tonka....so I think they all know each others techniqes and spots.

[Aquaman01]

EXCELLANT! Since it's almost all luck, I'm in! My boy and I can get pretty lucky sometimes. I'm gonna guess that gear is important, so I better put really good line on the Snoopy pole! He's caught nice ones off the dock, too, so I bet we don't even need a boat. Less water to cover before weigh-in, too.

BP, you really have a talent for stirring hornet's nests - don'cha?

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Aquaman
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Peace and Fishes

[Guest]

"Since it's almost all luck..."
In the big picture this is really quite true. You could hit a deer and go into a ditch on the way to the lake or get hit by lighting as you step outside your house during a thunderstorm. A billion and one things can go wrong that are beyond one's control.

[Guest]

"basspator,
you don't get it!!!"

Sorry but I am winning this debate. "Guessed" is "guessed" and you have no evidence of the little notebook, but are just guessing yourself. Maybe they did that or used a GPS but a guess is still a guess.

Plus I am not so sure they figured out the fish were so spooky on the day before because the fish were far less spooky on Friday.

"look at tom monsoor he is doing very well on his first year on the flw he is a river rat he knows moving water."
I wasn't aware The Big O was moving water.(His second best finish)

"a bit of advice for you if the fish boils and misses or follows your bait. the fish is telling you something. they do not want that lure they want something else. this why the good pros do so well they know when to adjust when to move."
Thanks for the free advice, but I was already aware of this and I did try a whole array of things and colors. The key is making the right adjustment which was most likely to throw small Senko's or small tubes but I didn't have any so couldn't make that adjustment. I am perfectly willing to admit I should have fished better and my outcome was far below par because of it.

No luck huh? What about the Bassmasters Classic that Brian Kerschal won or the one that Denny Brauer or Kevin Van Dam won? Or how about the one that Jim Bitter lost? If you know the stories you know how much good fortune had to shine on or not shine on the fisherman to give them or deny them the crown.

[mnbass2002]

basspastor

brian kerschel was tearing up the trail before he died!!!

you are trying to tell me that all the wins that: clunn, vandam, brauer, wendlendt, dudley, nixon, bitter, fritts, martin, dance. locals like capra's, linders, carter, neuman, lieferman, fisher, bonnema are all just luck?

are you crazy in the head?

you think you are winning this debate you don't even have a clue what you are talking about!!!!

big O has fluctuating water levels. that is moving water

[This message has been edited by mnbass2002 (edited 05-22-2003).]

[Walleye_GFA]

BP, dont you have anything else to do with your time other than argue !!?!!??!?!!?

Wally

[Smallie]

Turn the heat up a little more.
Yes, there is some luck in fishing, but I would have to say trial and error amount spent on water in general.

The more time you spend on the water the better your going to get just like any other sport. You don't throw a jig and pig for no reason because it's ussually bringing more times than not heavy bags to the scales. Is that luck that a person would pick up a confidence bait like that because you know the results that it produces?

I fished Denny's warm up on Okboji I have never worked so hard in my life trying to fill a limit.

we were fishing very negative smallies we were at our buoy picking it up with 7 minutes to go before weigh in. my last cast I pickep up our limit fish. We obviously knew there was fish there and had been throwing the right bait to get them to go.

I believe there was some luck in that but we did put something together after spending three days in practice.

I believe there was alot of learning that took place being able to figure out what to do and what not to. It's your basic trial and error. Just like any other succesful angler I would have to see it took much skill, confidence, patience,and a little bite of luck.

There are so many excellent anglers here in MN that I'm honored to fish aginst and learn from and I would bet that If you asked them that It's mostly all about time on the water and trial and error. I would also think that they have also had a little bite of luck added to there bag weights from time to time.

Yes there are elements that come in to play on the water and we all learn to deal with them and remember what was going on from water temp to air to a fron to rain and what does it do to the fish do I have to change baits, depths, points.

We all either keep a log or we all have many mental notes to remind us. These people deserve credit for what they have acomplished. I do agree that luck does play a role in fishing, as it does with anything else.

Intresting topic

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[Cyberfish]

OK, all you who believe that "luck" plays a major part in who wins, or even if you believe it has any role at all in the outcome, please answer these two questions.

Please define "luck"

How does this "luck" infuence the outcomes.

Thanks, and... Good luck!

Cyb

[Guest]

Ok....so maybe I have fished a few bass tourneys...and even won my share. Who would know more than someone who has actually won a couple....right?

Anytime I hear someone say that luck was not a factor in winning a tournement..I know one of two things...they are lying or they are delusional.

There are just to many factors that are out of your control. No matter how good you are or what kind of huge fish you have found pre-fishing things can go wrong that you have no control over. You cannot determine the weather...you do not have control over your boat draw...live bait fishermen on your spots..other tournement guys on your spots...motor faulures...etc. All are out of your control. In order to win any given tournement you need to have a winning plan and have some good luck...and/or bad luck for someone else.

There is no question the better you are the more often you will win...but to say luck has nothing to do with it is pure wishful thinking.

Plus the more evenly talented the fishermen the greater amount of luck is needed to win.

Just Sunday for instance. A guy caught a 6pound plus largemouth. Now that is luck. Do you know anyone that can go out on the river and catch a six pounder everyday? But he only had 2 or 3 other fish...so he did not win...but if anyone else in the top 10 had caught that fish they would have won.

In the first Durango I caught a 6-3. Now that was a lucky fish. It was my second biggest bass ever. To top it off the hook fell out as we netted it. Now without getting that lucky fish we would not have won....but we did put our selfs in position to get lucky and win by catching 7 other good fish.

[Guest]

"you are trying to tell me that all the wins ...are all just luck?
are you crazy in the head?
you think you are winning this debate you don't even have a clue what you are talking about!!!!"

I think someone needs to go back and read what I have actually written so they would know what they and I are talking about. I at no point said "all the wins... are all just luck." I am arguing a position that all wins and tournament fishing require some luck (about 20%) and some wins require mostly luck (99%). The notion that no or very little luck is needed in tournament fishing shows a lack of taking all variables into account and lack of understanding of fishing and tournament fishing in general.

As for a definition of luck, I did define the term earlier:"Luck depends on factors beyond one's control that either go for or against someone."

It affects the outcome because a person will need certain of these factors beyond one's control to fall in their favor and the more of them that go against a person the more unlikely a good finish becomes.

[Cyberfish]

Rev. Bass writes:

As for a definition of luck, I did define the term earlier:"Luck depends on factors beyond one's control that either go for or against someone."

Cyb says: Huh? How does "it depends on" define the term? Of course there are things beyond our control that may help us or frustrate us, and we may not know all of their causes, and we may rejoice or spaz out at their affects, but where in the grand sceme of cause and affect does luck (whatever that means) fit in?

BP then writes:
It affects the outcome because a person will need certain of these factors beyond one's control to fall in their favor and the more of them that go against a person the more unlikely a good finish becomes.

Cyb:
Of course the more uncontrollable favorable factors, the better the odds. For instance, I am a human, so I have much better odds than a chimp or a frog. I can see, so I have better odds than if I was blind. I grew up in Minnesota, so I had way better odds of learning to fish than someone who grew up in the desert, etc... Mabye you are just using the word "luck" to describe unknown causes?
I don't -always- know why some days bass seem easy to catch, and other days I can't buy a bite, or why my motor sometimes is hard to start, or whatever, but I hesistate to invoke a magical nondefinable word as the causative agent

Happy Casts!

Cyb

[catchin'whopper]

(Catchin' stirs the pot some more...)

Being more skilled (like a Clunn, Van Dam, Moynaugh), in essence, makes one create more luck to fall in their favor.

So yes, luck plays in it, skilled anglers create more of it to help tip the scales their way.

[Guest]

"Cyb says: Huh? How does "it depends on" define the term?"
Whatever! This is a lousy rebuttal for you. Drop the "depends on" and put the word "is" in it's place. Luck is factors beyond one's control that either go for or against someone.

"I hesistate to invoke a magical nondefinable word as the causative agent" There is nothing nondefined or magical about the concept of Luck. It is a catch-all term that saves us the time of having to be super technical and exact about probabilities in a highly complicated and speculative environment. The more unprobable something that happens, the more lucky or unlucky it is. Mr. Lee's 6-3 bass is a good example of having a little good luck at the right time. Do you get it now Cyb?

(I should have defined luck, anytime Cyberfish catches more or bigger fish than me in open water)

[Guest]

this is getting funny... those that think it is luck, just enter a few tournaments and see how you do... if you are relying on luck to win a tournament, you will likely never win one...

[Cyberfish]

BP: (I should have defined luck, anytime Cyberfish catches more or bigger fish than me in open water)

Ah ha! Now I get ya! In that case I am lucky almost everytime I fish with ya, and I think a couple more days of luck are comin' this weekend, whoo hooo!

[Guest]

"Reverned and Cyber"

Hey you two crack me up. It is good to see a lively debate with some humor sprinkled in and remain friends at the end of the day.
Good luck tommorrow.

[Guest]

"I think a couple more days of luck are comin' this weekend, whoo hooo!"
Hey just because you kicked my tail on the eyes on ML a couple of times two years ago doesn't mean that will translate to Smallies, Lg mouth, and Pike this year.

Heck if I wasn't showing you were to fish tommorrow, you would be lost Mr. IforgotthatIevenhadaMilleLacslakemapDuh!

[Ray Esboldt]

Philosophy regarding luck in tournaments:

"You create your own luck."

Every tournament I've won money in has been because I did some good research prior to the event. And the amount of money I've won has usually been proportional to the amount of time I put in.

However, I find tournaments annoying now. And, you know, I can't honestly pinpoint why. I'm down to fishing club tournaments and one or two choice ones a year. I think the ego that some of the folks have brought to tournament fishing and people calling themselves "pros" is what annoys me.

Whatever. If that's what gets some guys fired up, that's great.

[Cyberfish]

Results after two days...

Day one...

BP One 18 inch smallmouth

Cyb 18.5 L mouth,

17 SMouth, 16 SM, 15 L mouth , 13 LM

Day 2

BP 18 LM ! 3 16 " LMs 15 LM

Cyb 17 LM 16 LM and 3 14 LMs

BP out fishes cyb thanks to getting up 2 hours early while the cybster enjoys another hour of sleep and a nice shower, But Cyb is still way ahead for the weekend! Whoo hooo, keep the "luck" a comin'

[Guest]

I am is interested in learning how to fish competivly (tournment etc. ) Is there anyone out there who is willing to take on an apprentice and teach me?

[email protected]

[fishface5]

The Boat driver defines luck.?.?. Luck is(period). Who is luck? A little calvanist theology?? No, not in angling. Oh What luck! The more you fish the more luck you have. Some of us have to work. But it is still a blast catch em no matter what they are. Cyb just is predetermined to catch bigger sewere trout than the B. P. What can a guy do????? Fish on dudes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cyberfish]

Who is that masked man?

[Guest]

From another thread:
"Speaking of luck...I hear Chris L. caught their 4 1/2 pounder with 15 minutes to go. That fish culled a 1lb.11oz. fish. That fish was a 6,200 dollar fish. I would say he got a little lucky.....he is a dam good fisherman but a little luck usually helps for the win."

And that fish was the unlucky break for Cline/Bosshardt who lost $2100 by .12 of a lb because of that fish.

[fishface5]

Luck... It's a BLEEP!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Well, thank you for your advice.