Possible Sinkhole or Foundation Issue?

[amateurfishing]

the below picture shows water damage inside the "outside" garage wall

initially water was running down from top and I had it professionally retarred and caulked around roof line. Since then 2 years have gone by with no drippage from top but this water damage area on bottom seemingly becomes more intense after every rainstorm.

my dad said this weekend that if no water falling from top, it must be impacting somewhere at ground level, so we researched and came up with this possible scenario

the concrete step at the front door has separated at the step with a very small crack currently in between, but when placing a 26 inch stick inbetween the concrete steps in the seam, the results are very scary. When the stick is placed in the middle, you can see most of it sticking out, when placed in the right corner (garage side), it almost completely disappears meaning there is no longer anything under the concrete to support it in that area except the sheer weight of the rest of the concrete slab holding it in place.

my apologies, last picture is upside down

...so 1. is this fixable and....

2. where is all of my subsoil and moisture draining to if I have a hole under part of my front step.

note: anything outside of the house is not currently affecting house foundation at this point that I can see because I do not have any part of the house under the front door outside, only entry way inside.

[Tom7227]

Same thing was happening to my garage apron. When I broke it out there was a huge cavity that went up under the garage floor. The block footings hadn't been filled or capped and a lot of material had disappeared into the voids in the blocks I ended up redoing the entire apron after getting as much sand as I could to go down and fill the voids and get some support in place. Your setup looks pretty new. Maybe some construction guys can tell it they fill or cap the footing blocks by the apron.

[Surface Tension]

Close ups are nice but I can't make heads or tail of what I'm looking at without seeing the rest of the area.

The first picture you have water wicking up. I see a treated plate, stud, and builtrite.

The plate looks to be caulked with spray foam? Water being shed from the roof is splashing and getting the sheathing wet. Slide base flashing between the starter strip and sheathing, dropping below the top of the slab by at least a couple inches. Tarring and caulking the roofline is a temporary patch.

Nor sure if your cavity is under the steps or slab? What type of slab have you have?

Floating set inside a foundation or monolithic slab. Again I can't tell whats what with the close ups. In the meantime go around and sound test the rest of the slab for hollow spots with a rubber mallet. Even though you said nothing has sunk yet, mud jacking is an option to fill and stabilize but you'd need to have someone come in and verify that you do have a problem.

[Tom7227]

After looking at the pictures I have to agree with Frank.

The garage wall doesn't show signs of water damage above the area in question so thinking it came down from the roof internally seems not to be the answer. So the water somehow is coming from the ground level. Is there a depression on the outside that is allowing water to puddle? Is the dirt well below the level of the block or slab? If not then I would start there.

Then I looked a bit more closely at the picture of the garage door area. I can't tell if the apron has gone down or that slab has gone up. I would expect to see some scraping on the brick if the apron went down or some damage to the door jam if the slab went up.

I'm still guessing that there is a void under the corner of the steps and the slab from the written explanations. The rubber mallet will help figure that out. Then you either call in some some jacking outfit or get out the jack hammer and tear up the apron and the steps.

[amateurfishing]

first concern with this endeavor is does that sheathing need to be replaced at some point or will bleach/water be ok to kill any possible mold growth?

[amateurfishing]

this pic is front door entry, never had any pooling of water anywhere here

this pic is where I have silicone it where first separation of slab from wall was noticed couple years ago in front outside corner

and this is a pic of front door/sidewalk and garage apron, only place water pools here is the joint of sidewalk meeting asphalt, it can get bad after big storms or spring thaw snowmelt and can have standing water on rocks even but this is all in front and away from garage

thx for the comments and info

[amateurfishing]

also measurements of where water issue is on inside of garage directly correlate to short brick wall on right side in front door pic, that is why I had originally suspected roofline connection to be issue but in past year all moisture at this point has only been on the bottom & no drippage from top so that small crack opening between first and second step of front door does seem like culprit especially since I am finding significant depth chances in surface below it.

[soldoncass]

I've got some guesses...places to check out/ observations. I think the 4 inch slab was added, between the sidewalk and entryway.( it butts against the vinyl siding, instead of a finish trim above the concrete) I'd pull some vinyl siding off, just to make sure there is tyvek or felt paper properly put behind the siding and all flashing is done right. Vinyl siding won't stop water, unless it is done properly underneath. Same with the top of the brick... is it flashed properly with paper behind?

Water pooling on the rocks sounds like a drainage issue.

[Surface Tension]

So its the short wall with a wet bottom plate and it is no mystery why. The garage slab is lower then the steps next to it along with the wall. The built rite is wicking water from the bottom plate.

In that situation one row of block should have been put in and then your bottom plate on top. The base flashing in this case isn't the best way to go but its better then noting. That would drop down between the slab and step and continue past the slab. That would create a barrier to any water on the steps from making contact with your bottom plate. By looking at your pic again, all that caulk around the interior base of the plate is there to stop water from making its way into the garage. With the bottom plate and a few inchs of sheathing being in a small, damp dark place I'd opt for the block.

Now you know why there is space between the steps and it was intended to be there.

The steps and slab at the entry more then likely are sitting on footing.

Having a space under them so they don't lift from frost.

Do you have any pictures of that interior wall other then the close up.

[Tom7227]

Disregard all my comments as I had it completely wrong. Sorry.

[amateurfishing]

this is pic of inside garage wall

originally the front door slab and step were connected/sealed with no gap, i "think" the step may have settled some and slowly pulled away from front door slab creating the crack or seem between steps

pardon my lack of knowledge but what is builtrite?

i put the caulk there myself as i thought that was a problem area last year and was trying to solve this issue

nothing has ever come up in the block cavities, i only spray foamed it to keep kids from losing their toys in them.

i am basically asking is this constant wetness a major issue (i assume it is)? if so, how can i find the cure and does the material that is wet need to be fixed/replaced? thx

[soldoncass]

Builtrite is the sheeting that shows the water stains.

The constant wetness is NOT a good thing....it needs to be fixed....the sheeting may not be bad enough to replace,yet(have to get to the outside to find out) .

I believe the 4 inch slab outside, tight against the vinyl siding is the problem. I would pull some siding off and make sure it is done properly behind the siding. I believe the water stains show it isn't.

[amateurfishing]

thank you

make sure what is done properly behind the siding?

[soldoncass]

It is hard to explain on an internet site....much easier with pictures or in person, but I'll try.

The wall has built-rite sheeting on the outside of the studs. There should be tyvek or felt paper on the outside of the sheeting....from below the top of the blocks, to the top of the wall, as well as behind bricks, inside and outside corners. If that is done water cannot get to the built-rite sheeting. Vinyl (and steel and aluminum horizontal) siding is installed in J channels, and water can drive around it , if the paper isn't water tight, it will leak. The old types of siding are caulked and painted to keep the water out. The maintenance free types ,like yours, have to be water tight before the siding is installed, because of the expansion spaces needed in the J channels.

My guess is: that 4 inch slab was an attempt to solve a problem with the sidewalk sinking by the house. (doesn't look original to me) In the process they raised the level of the concrete above the top of the blocks....now water sits there and finds its way around the J channels, and wicks up the sheeting.

What to do about it will take some investigating, and find out if my suspicions are correct (or not).

Can you put a roof over that slab to keep water off it?

Dig down on the left side of slab to see if there is another sidewalk under that one.

Take siding off and check out paper situation.

[amateurfishing]

4 inch slab is original to house when we bought it as brand new in 05

the only things that have been altered since then are the crease between concrete steps appearing, my concrete/brick joint caulking, and tarring/caulking done by me/pros along roofline in same area directly above

[soldoncass]

So the original builder did the roof, that leaked into the garage wall, in less than 6 years. He also poured the 4" slab against the siding (probably with no paper on the wall), that is higher than the top of the block? Time to look up your builder and raise some .....

Dirt settles around a new house for several years, so your stick thing isn't a surprise, most places you just add fill where it settled. When it does it under a sidewalk, it is hard/impossible to get to.

That still leaves the paper(or lack of) under the siding.

[amateurfishing]

So the original builder did the roof, that leaked into the garage wall, in less than 6 years. He also poured the 4" slab against the siding (probably with no paper on the wall), that is higher than the top of the block? Time to look up your builder and raise some .....

Dirt settles around a new house for several years, so your stick thing isn't a surprise, most places you just add fill where it settled. When it does it under a sidewalk, it is hard/impossible to get to.

That still leaves the paper(or lack of) under the siding.

thx for all the info, so I know what the issue is without paper behind, but what if there is paper behind? I did see them build several homes after ours and one of the first things they always did was the tyvek wrap around the house, if that is the paper you are talking about I have to assume it is on ours as well as it has been put on every other house that was built after we moved in here. So if there is paper behind the siding, then what?

[Surface Tension]

Good, you do have block.

It would be possible that the water coming from the roof traveled down the outside of the house wrap and therefore no signs of staining. When the water exited at the bottom the plate could have gotten wet. As mentioned water could be making its way between the J channel and brick or J channel and siding. Or the base flashing doesn't drop low enough.

Those are areas you'll have to investigate and eliminate each one as the source.

What exactly got caulked? Anything caulked after the roof was completed is a patch job to fix something not done right. That will be a nagging problem forever.

[Jameson]

some questions for the folks in the know...

Shouldn't there be another layer of concrete block foundation under that portion of the wall? It would get the foundation above outside grade. Grade here being the level of the middle step.

Does anyone think the original design was to only have one taller step, and not two shorter steps to enter the house? Then someone(concrete guy? original homeowner?) changed design and added the second step?

To properly fix it then would be to jack hammer out the middle step and repour?

[amateurfishing]

some questions for the folks in the know...

Shouldn't there be another layer of concrete block foundation under that portion of the wall? It would get the foundation above outside grade. Grade here being the level of the middle step.

Does anyone think the original design was to only have one taller step, and not two shorter steps to enter the house? Then someone(concrete guy? original homeowner?) changed design and added the second step?

we are original homeowners

To properly fix it then would be to jack hammer out the middle step and repour?

[soldoncass]

A jackhammer definitely is one solution....not the first thing I would do, though. NO ASSUMPTIONS ARE ALLOWED....owner will have to physically check things out(or hire someone experienced) step by step to find the cause, and ultimately what can be done to fix it.

That 4" slab is definitely a contributor to the problem, but not necessarily the only one. There was a time when it was not required(code wise) to have paper on garages...only living spaces...I'm not sure what it was in 2005 . Sometimes sub-contractors take shortcuts ,when they aren't being watched. Once I was at one of our houses when the roofer was finishing up the last little fireplace roof. I noticed he didn't put roofing paper under the shingles on the last side. I told him paper HAD TO BE THERE, so he did, then shingled it ...then I asked him if he had put paper under the shingles on the other side, and he looked right at me and said yes. After he left I went over and checked it out...no paper, so I called his boss. The next day he was back out there ,took the shingles off, put felt down, and shingled it again. This was 20 miles out of town, so he wasn't happy, his boss wasn't happy, I wasn't happy...but it got done right because I happened to catch him at it. That doesn't always happen, so mistakes are made, like this problem...but the contractor is ultimately responsible for it. They may not be in business anymore, though, so the homeowner has to get it fixed.

[soldoncass]

amateur,

Do you have the house plan? That would tell you if the 4" slab was planned or a change. If you are original owner, I would definitely look up the contractor, and have a conversation.