How long before Gardy is gone?

[FISHINGURU]

Twins will always be junk until they get a new owner.

Gardy should be givin a medal for the things he has done in the past with the mediocre talent and little money spent.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

Twins will always be junk until they get a new owner.

Gardy should be givin a medal for the things he has done in the past with the mediocre talent and little money spent.

"I-63, I 63..." BINGO! We have a winner!

[eyebenband]

Twins will always be junk until they get a new owner.

Gardy should be givin a medal for the things he has done in the past with the mediocre talent and little money spent.

Let's see....Angels big spenders...last in division

Bosox.......big spenders...last in division

Yanks.......big spenders 3rd in division

Phillies....big spenders...last in division

Even when KC spent money, they finished last

And the Tigers aren't blowing people away.

Bill Smith screwed things up and it will take a long time to fix it.

Right now, in June when the callers come, take whatever you can for Pavano, Marquis, Lirianno and Blackburn and go with whatever is left.

Fill up the farm system. We don't even have a 3rd baseman. And people

moaned when Punto was there.

[B. Amish]

how does it go now?

fans think spending big bucks equals a world series... but fans also think spending big bucks is why we're junk right now.

[Musky Buck]

No doubt, I think spending big bucks is high risk, especially in baseball, hockey you can blend in and not score for a month and still contribute a great deal to the team, football you make that huge play here and there and it can determine the game, basketball the great are great, the good are good, the bad are bad look at Mauer, we're getting squat on that deal, look at Jayson Werth for the Nationals, squat. Even Morneau, squat and his deal wasn't as monsterous. Albert so far, squat. Johan Santana,nearly squat. Who was that Royals righthander that got that huge deal, squat. It is very risky to see a guy put a few great years together or a string of pitching performances than you're like a dime late and a dollar short when "you" make the deal. Then they underperform or injuries take control of their careers, when you guess right on a guy you look like a genius, when you don't they want your head. I think baseball is a tough one to predict, so much happens, they play nearly every day, it's just you and the pitcher at the plate, it's primarily you on a defensive play, it's you running the bases, mistakes are rarely hidden in baseball. I think it's the right mix of guys at the right time with the organization making the right draft pick or free agent signing and then having more talent than the other teams or simply performing best when it counts etc. Right now lets say Texas has Varsity talent, we kinda got c-squad talent, talent or no though, you have to prove it night in and out, there's no taking a game off or two in baseball.

[Musky Buck]

PS. before Walleye time, Gardy is trying to get that C-squad talent to play up to the JV talent they are, then from there he'll try to work it to be varsity talent or perform like a varsity squad. You bet he has his work cut out, my feel on Gardy is do the guys really want to go to war for him, so far that's been a little iffy from the outside looking in but they know the inside looking out and I think they definitely approve of Gardy. Let's go Twins ! Go catch the team ahead of you, then the next, I think they're lost a bit identity wise so many changes to the team the last couple years.

[dietdew]

Can we just agree that the manager is the most overated position in sports. I love that guys want to give gardy credit for winning with crappy teams but dont want to blame him now???? You cant have it both ways. Lets face it, if you want to win games you have to hit home runs and pitch well.

It just turns out the Twins cant do either. This falls on scouts and gm. Base ball is a pretty simple game people, its not rocket science.

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

The teams that spend in a sport with no cap ALWAYS have a better chance to win. The yankees, red sox, angels, phillies are almost always competing for a playoff spot. They may not be in first right now but i bet they are right in it at the end of the year just like always. Doesnt garuntee you a world series, but guess what.... only ONE team can win the title anyways. At least prove to your fan base you are TRYING to make things better instead of dropping the payroll 20 million dollars after u lose 99 games and forcing us to watch this garbage all summer.... WORST RECORD IN BASEBALL!!!! The Pohlads have all the money in the world and they apparently will take it to the grave with them.

On a better note.... I really like what I am seeing early from this Brian Dozier guy. Hopefully they have at least finally found a shortstop (which is pretty important) in another terrible loser season.

[mnviking28]

The thing I don't get about this team/front office, they always have trouble with left hand pitching. So, you get rid of your only right hand power, replace him with right hand power, so you have solved nothing. You take the contract Cuddyer got with Colorado, and add a decent starter like an Edwin Jackson, Oswalt, or even the contract Buerhle got with Miami, and your payroll stays close to the same. Instead, you try to do it on the cheap and add all these guys that are not very good, as well as keep guys like Casilla, Butera, and Plouffe? Between the 3 of them, they couldn't hit their way out of a wet paper bag. May as well bring back Punto, Hocking, Luke Hughes and Matt Tolbert and make them your starting infield. This lineup for the last couple of years, once you get past number 6, the pitcher gets to take an inning off. Now all of a sudden the starter only has to pitch 4 innings instead of 6 or 7. The 7-9 hitters are beyond anemic. No batting average and no power. Your "best" hitter is a singles/doubles guy, so now you literally have 3 guys that are capable of hitting it out, and one of them is hurt most of the time? No pitching+no hitting=100 losses consistently. This has nothing to do with Gardy. Lack of talent is just that, lack of talent.

[nofishfisherman]

The thing I don't get about this team/front office, they always have trouble with left hand pitching. So, you get rid of your only right hand power, replace him with right hand power, so you have solved nothing. You take the contract Cuddyer got with Colorado, and add a decent starter like an Edwin Jackson, Oswalt, or even the contract Buerhle got with Miami, and your payroll stays close to the same.

In theory that sounds good but who takes Cuddy's spot then? If you took his money and went after a pitcher then you'd have a guy like Plouffe and his .140 batting average and one of the AAA call ups as your everyday corner outfielers. Thats also not a real desirable position to be in.

In reality they needed to beef up the lineup and the rotation and they really didn't succeed in doing either of those things. I think the Willingham signing is the only off season move that actually has paid off at. He could reasonably be expected to start on a championship caliber team, not so much with most of the other guys.

[mnviking28]

What I was saying was keeping Cuddyer and putting him in right, still signing Willingham and keeping him in left, and signing one of those three pitchers to take over for whichever of these starters that you knew were not going to perform, as most of them are head cases. Even with a $10 million contract for Cuddyer and $8-$14 million for one of these three starters I mentioned, you are within $5 million on either side of last years payroll. You actually have a major league outfield, rather than 2 guys and a throw away that hits .180. Defensively, Willingham and Delmon are about the same ability. You should throw a tent over that circus every time a ball is hit to them. The differece is that Willingham has hit more in his month plus he has been here than the entire time Delmon was here. Same thing with the infield. Third base is a black hole that ate Valencia alive. You have Alexi Casilla, Plouffe, and Parmalee in the line up at the same time and you may as well just not bat that inning. At least if they would have kept Cuddyer, his bat would have made one more place they don't have to play one of these guys.

[nofishfisherman]

If you could have signed Cuddy, Willingham, and a reasonable starter that would have been great. But I guess I'm not seeing how we could sign all three of those guys for what we are paying now.

Even with those three players on this roster I still don't see us as a playoff team, certainly not a playoff team that could do anything in the postseason. So maybe we are better with a season in the gutter. Maybe the owners will see that a few higher level free agent signings will be needed to actually win at a high level.

Can anyone think of when the last high level free agent signing was for the Twins? I'm not sure if I can think of anyone that wasn't either 38 years old or coming off an injury, or a terrible season the previous year.

[Slabasaurus]

Morris? I think he was like 36 though... so in the spirit of your question, Nope.

With cuddy and willingham and a reasonable starter the word Playoff can enter the discussion, but it'd be a stretch.

Gonna be a frustrating year or two hear in twins territory...

[mnviking28]

What we are currently paying no. What we paid last year, yes. I was responding to Yiggin's post about a $20 million drop from last year and saying if they had spent the same amount this year as last instead of thinking some of these wanna bes are going to have a miracle season. Kubel was never someone that excited me, way too many warning track fly balls. Other than Cuddy, none of the free agents that they lost from last year to this really meant that much to me. Nathan was the closest thing to that, but as we have seen, bullpen has been far from this teams biggest problem.

[Ybone]

The biggest disappointment besides the starting pitching has been the play of Plouffe, Valencia and Parmalee. At least one or two of them were expected to add some pop to the lineup but 2 homers between the 3 of them is not going to do it. On the bright side the bullpen has been pretty good, even Capps is 7 for 7 in saves.

[B. Amish]

if they would've kept cuddyer and signed one pitcher = $20 million. and how many more wins do you honestly think this team would have with 2 additional above average players?

let's be honest. to really compete for the world series this year. they probably would've needed to spend 50-70+ million on free agents and the multi year deals that would've gone with them.

[LABS4ME]

even Capps is 7 for 7 in saves.

The Matt Crapps we've all grown to know and love showed up last night! Granted it wasn't a save, but he blew it none-the-less.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Musky Buck]

JJ Hardy. We've been trying to find us a shortstop for years, why'd we give up so quick on this guy, when I heard he was gone I was like oh no, Mauer's good friend, super solid defensively, he's had 7 errors in like 164 games since he joined baltimore add in I think 37 homeruns and 90+ RBI's. He finally got that wrist healed up and was 100% again and we let him slide. Now it's Dozier's chance.

[mnviking28]

Never quite understood that trade Musky. You get a couple of minor league relievers for a proven major league shortstop? You have a Japanese player coming in to replace him? Of all of these players that have come from Japan, how many have actually made a big splash in the majors? Ichiro, Matsui, maybe Irabu and that is about it. It may be baseball over there, but it seems to be a different brand of baseball entirely. Nishioka will be another bust, he couldn't even make the team out of camp this year. Should have spent that money on a pitcher.

[thatoneguy]

if they would've kept cuddyer and signed one pitcher = $20 million. and how many more wins do you honestly think this team would have with 2 additional above average players?

let's be honest. to really compete for the world series this year. they probably would've needed to spend 50-70+ million on free agents and the multi year deals that would've gone with them.

You are correct. This team needs to be blown up and re-made from scratch. With a different recipe. I'm not even sure who on the current roster is worth keeping! Perkins, Dozier seems like a decent prospect (albeit with a low ceiling), Span (maybe), Willingham...is there anyone else on the roster that you get excited about?

Mauer is still a nice player, but since he forgot how to hit the ball with any authority, his contract is an abomination. Morneau is perpetually injured. Capps is not fit for anything other than mop-up duty. Doumit is a role player, and I can see him sticking in the right situation. Revere is a span clone. Carroll is fine, but he's 38 and not part of any long-term plans. Pavano is used up, Baker's going through major surgery and rehab. Marquis is garbage. Liriano would be worth keeping in the bullpen, I think, if he would agree to a massive pay cut. A couple of the new middle relief guys have looked OK, but aren't going to be enough to win games and turn this ship around.

To make it worse, the Twins have drafted VERY badly over much of the past half-dozen years, and the cupboard is pretty bare in the minors. A few very good prospects like Sano, Hicks, Arcia and Gibson - but that's about it, and Gibson is working his way back from surgery.

The organization needs an entirely new scouting and draft philosophy, IMO. They can't keep looking for low-ceiling/high floor guys who will progress quickly through the minors, but are extremely limited when they get to the big show. They need more power arms and power bats in the system in the worst way. They have, what, 5 of the top 75 picks in this year's draft, and it it CRUCIAL that they knock this draft out of the park. There are some terrific power pitching prospects who will be available at the top of the draft, and I'm PRAYING the Twins don't do their normal thing and pick a guy who tops out at 90mph because he can "pitch to contact" and "challenge hitters." No, they need to pick a guy who can miss bats and power his way out of jams. Period. And they need to pick up some power bats as well.

What a miserable time to be a diehard Twins fan.

/rant

[greebs]

JJ Hardy. We've been trying to find us a shortstop for years, why'd we give up so quick on this guy, when I heard he was gone I was like oh no, Mauer's good friend, super solid defensively, he's had 7 errors in like 164 games since he joined baltimore add in I think 37 homeruns and 90+ RBI's. He finally got that wrist healed up and was 100% again and we let him slide. Now it's Dozier's chance.

One never knows for sure but had heard that JJ wasn't a vanilla type of player that a a particular leader on the coaching staff didn't like. There have been a few talented players that have a little attitude in them that have been moved for supposedly the same reason through the years.

[deerminator]

I remember TK saying after the first World Series win something to the effect of I just fill out the line up card and the guys do thee rest. They deserve the credit. He wasn't giving himself enought credit. He played more of a role than that but he was right to the extent that the best manager in the world can't win a championship unless he has the right players. Right now, things aren't working. The guys they have can't seem to find a way to win like the ones in 87 and 91. They seem to be trying to salvage things to see if they can have Morneau and Mauer live up the their expectations - and so on. But it just doesn't seem to be happening. And it doesn't look like it ever will. At a certain point, it's time to cut bait and fire up the motor and try something new. That often involves a new coach. And trading the hometown prodigy if needed. It's nothing personal, it's just baseball or business. If you want to have a winning team, you can't just keep hoping things will get better. You have to make changes.

[Musky Buck]

I wasn't aware of JJ and his ways, I was aware that we need Joe to just start hitting line drives again. Found it a bit ironic that Josh Hamilton swings at the first pitch, highest rate in baseball and we got the opposite, think Joe should try Josh's philosophy why not at this point when Doumit is a higher rated catcher than Joe. Joe really needs about a week off to clear his head, you don't get time to clear your head in baseball, it keeps coming at you and it keeps beating you down. We get Morneau back and that will help some. Truthfully even if Joe was clubbing it there's almost no way unless you are in the playoffs and or winning it to live up to the deal he signed. Hope he got a good night sleep, he likely isn't lately. Baseball can kill a guy mentally.

[thatoneguy]

At a certain point, it's time to cut bait and fire up the motor and try something new. That often involves a new coach. And trading the hometown prodigy if needed.

What team in its right mind would trade for Mauer right now? His contract was created when he was coming off one of the greatest seasons EVER by a catcher, along with the fact that as the hometown hero, he was a marketing gold mine.

Now, he's a singles hitter who's not even a threat to win a batting title, who can't stay healthy as a full-time catcher, and who isn't doing anything to help his pitchers out (not that there's a lot to be done with this motley bunch of rejects).

At $23,000,000 a year, there is no way on earth a team would take on that contract with Mauer's current level of performance. Now if Mauer gets on a month-long hot streak and starts looking like the Mauer of old, the one who was on a fast track to Cooperstown, THEN by all means trade him if you can get something of value.

This team is SO far from being even middle-of-the-pack, let alone a contender, that they may as well treat it like an expansion franchise and just start completely anew.

[LABS4ME]

I believe Mauer and Morneau both have 'no trade' clauses in their contracts. Not that a trade couldn't happen, but 'they' get the say if it happens or not. Worst signing in Twins history... I was stomping my feet saying keep Ramos, let Mauer go... we'd be a totally different tema right now if we weren't giving 25% of the team payroll to the Golden Child. No way a team with a perrenially low payroll can ever pay a player that kind of money. We never have and though fans get angry when we don't, they for years used the money that would've went to 'one' player and signed multiple players the following year or traded them for multiple players to help keep the roster full of up and comers.

Good Luck!

Ken