Deer tags next year

[KEN W]

Talked to the warden out west.....he said the GNF over-estimated the population.There will be big time cuts in tags next year,even if we have an easy winter.I would guess at the advisory board meetings starting next week,that the GNF will get an earfull.Might be even tough to get a doe tag in some units.

Time to eliminate muzzle loader seasons and add those tags to the general season.Also might be time to allow only 1 buck harvested per person.Minn does this.You shoot a buck during any of the seasons and you are done hunting for bucks.

[harvey lee]

I figured they missed the drop in population big time. I would guess our local deer herd is down all of 50% over last year which was still down from the year before. Many dead deer found in the fields this spring and I am sure the coyotes ate very well all winter long.

I did not archery hunt this season as I did not want to harvest to many deer on our land.

I would like to see the GNF drop the tags in 2G1 another 30% even if I have to go without for a year or two.

I will not be hunting ND next season with the herd in as bad of shape as it is right now. If this winter is hard again, I fear that the deer herd will take years to recover.

I agree with the 1 deer. I would favor keeping the ML season. No reason to stop the ML season, the GNF can simply reduce the deer tags and really reduce the doe tags. They could go buck only for the rifle and ML season but keep the archery season buck or doe. That would help a bunch. There are enough bucks to breed all the does.

[Scoot]

Yeah, I went from having little hope, to being pretty optimistic, to complete disappointment this year regarding deer numbers. Good bucks really seemed to get zapped the past couple Winters, which was too bad. I hope tags get reduced a bunch and I'd sure love to see yote numbers get to a more reasonable level (not a lot GnF can do about that though). Tough, tough sledding for most. I'm pretty sure there was a considerable overestimate by GnF. Hopefully GnF will respond accordingly and we'll get some reasonable Winters for the next few years. We couldn't possibly have another Winter like last year again, could we? Heck, I'm hoping for something much better than we've had the past three years...

They're not perfect, but I really think the ND GnF do a very good job. I have no doubt some will disagree with that, but I think they have a dang tough job and they do very well in spite of that.

[marine_man]

I agree Scoot.. I think the GNF is doing a pretty good job.. and perhaps didn't want to believe it was as bad as it seems.

I'm kind of on the fence as far as deer numbers in the zone I hunt (South of Grandforks, north of Fargo)

While we didn't see nearly as many deer as usual last weekend, we also saw way, way less hunters out hunting... in the area we hunt, no hunters = no deer being moved = not many deer seen. The sign of deer in the woods was just about as good as other years.. but I think in our area, a lot of guys hunted first weekend with the wind (which is pretty much known keeps deer planted) and decided going out the second weekend wasn't worth it.

marine_man

[Scoot]

M_M, it's been interesting- I've also seen as much sign as I typically see. However, the trailcams and my eyes have very clearly showed me there are way fewer deer in the areas I've been hunting. It makes me wonder if you reach a point at which 10 deer or 20 deer make about the same amount of sign on the trails- as long as there's more than some lower limit, it might look pretty similar? I'm not sure. I just know that the amount of sign doesn't look off kilter, but the number of deer there is way low.

[TylerS]

Well, if the GF does another survey, I hope they take a good look at my unit and keep the tag numbers similar to this year. As I've said before, it appears as if the numbers are very similar to last year, and we had little trouble filling tags. It seems like there are areas with good deer numbers, and areas with not so good deer numbers. I'd had to get nailed with a big tag cut just because other areas of the state are not faring as well.

BTW, I hear a lot of talk about coyotes, but I've seen fewer this year than last year. An area we hunted this weekend for roosters that usually is teeming with yotes was virtually devoid of them.

I also saw the first flock of turkeys in a few years in the unit I deer hunt. They had disappeared in years past as the number of coyotes increased. With their return, I imagine that means the predator numbers have dropped somewhat.

[harvey lee]

Talking turkey, we have quite a few compared to last year.

Talking coyotes, Scoot can confirm that in our little piece of heaven, we are overloaded with them.

No doubt in my mind that the deer herd in our area is way down.

Opening weekend, I did not see much and blamed that lack of deer movement on the wind.

Weekend 2, I still did not see that much for deer movement with little to no wind at all.

As far as hunter numbers, we were down some for sure but the area I hunt is mostly private except for the grasslands and it seemed like there were hunters out there from the shots I heard.

Either we have next to no bucks or they simply did not run much this year during the rut as we saw next to none chasing does.

I have hunted this property for the past 25 years and my father hunted it longer so we know what has been there for deer and most of thier hiding places.

Any way one looks at it, the deer herd is in very sad shape for us. Our CO I talk to quite a bit and he figured the wet spring had more to do with the death loss than the hard winter. Simply put, the deer got the double whamy.

In regards to deer numbers on trail cameras, I guide for a handi-capped hunt every year in our area and when I had a bait pile out for 5 weeks, I had plenty of photo's on the trail camera. In fact if I remember correctly, I had 855 photo's in that time period. I thought wow, we have a huge number of deer until I looked at the photo's and saw all the same bucks numerous times of the day. Out of all of those photo's, there was 1 fawn in those pictures.

I believe our CO knew it was going to be tough out there but maybe not this tough.

Back up tomorrow for the remainder of the rifle season in hopes of just seeing a buck in almost 12 days of hunting this season. Most seasons if I get picky, it takes me the first weekend at the most. last season was a poor one also.

A buddy of mine has been hunting this ranch for close to 40 years and has always gotten his buck the 1st weekend. To date, he is deerless and he is not picky on what he shoots.

Don't care to talk doom and gloom but, it's ugly out there.

[Scoot]

Tyler, that's really interesting regarding what you saw in terms of yotes. Like Tom said, I've literally never seen so many stinkin' yotes in my life. I think this is the fourth year I've hunted out at Tom's place and there's definitely more yotes out there than in the past four years. There's more of them than I've seen anywhere! I sat one morning and saw five different yotes in a very small area. I've seen at least one every time I've been out, heard multiple packs of them most times out, and I've got more pics of yotes than deer on the trailcams. Given what you saw, I wonder if there's just little pockets of big numbers or if it's more about the general area you're in?

Like Tom said- I don't like the doom and gloom reports at all, but I totally agree with him: in the area we've been at, it's really tough sledding.

BTW, I don't mean for any of the above to read like I'm disagreeing with you, Tyler. I'm just saying that in the areas I've been in, I'm seeing very different things. Sounds like I need to be in the areas you've been in...

[brittman]

There just was not enough snow cover the past two winters to run accurate aerial surveys.

[vman11]

Tough in central ND as well. I agree with all of the trail cam comments. We run 7 cameras and had pretty dismall results. We also had 4 bucks from last year that we estimated at 130+ that we didn't personally harvest. Never seen them on camera this year.

Either they wandered onto other properties and were shot, or the weather took care of the more mature bucks. Plenty of forks on camera this summer and fall as the young deer seemed to winter better.

Rifle hunting was poor at best - previous winters, wind, and the moon phase didn't help matters. On our way out last Friday night we had multiple encounters with deer on roads and with clear skies the moon was shinning pretty brightly.

[KEN W]

There just was not enough snow cover the past two winters to run accurate aerial surveys.

Not what the GNF said.....last winter had snow cover statewide.They said they were able to survey anywhere they wanted.

[Scoot]

Ken, note the icon after the statement by brittman-- I'm pretty sure he was kidding. Snow, snow, and more snow should have made surveying easier than usual, I'd think.

[TylerS]

Scoot,

That seems to be the general feeling I get from people I talk to. The herds were hit hard in some areas (I'm thinking hard winter combined with lack of or disappearing habitat) while areas I've been in don't seem to have fared as bad.

It's funny, too: I heard awful reports from people after opener who hunted out west. Fast forward to now, and suddenly other hunters are seeing loads of deer in the same areas. It's not always the norm, but I think the weather (as Harvey mentioned) played a bigger role than people expected.

I absolutely do not doubt that your deer herd is hurting, and I really hope the G&F does something to help the situation. I have a feeling they're going to get more than an earful during their upcoming public input meeting.

I do also find it curious (ironic, too), however, about the outcry because of the deer numbers. For years (and this was no secret) the G&F has purposely been issuing more and more doe tags in order to get the deer herd to manageable numbers. Thanks to that practice, and now several tough winters, the herd has done just that.

Now, did they issue more tags this year than they should have in some units? Possibly. But as more tree rows, CRP and other marginal lands are put back into crop production, the ecological carrying capacity will drop, too. Whether we kill the deer or not doesn't really matter; Mother Nature only will support a certain number of deer, regardless. Maybe that means the coyotes get a bounty this winter. Who knows?

Whatever the case, I believe that although the G&F isn't perfect (they are human, after all) the tag numbers issued next year will reflect the deer herd numbers as they correlate with the organization's management plans. I just have a feeling we're going to hear a heck of a lot of complaining when Joe Hunter gets snubbed on his coveted buck tag for another year, and then can't get an antlerless tag because they were all issued in the first lottery.

And I do not believe that we won't see those high numbers from the past few years ever again. They may cycle lower for a year or two, but white-tails are hearty critters. It may take 5-10 years, but all it takes is a few easy winters and maybe some farmers realizing those marginal acres are costing more than they are worth to harvest, to see the deer numbers jump.

Than we'll have the same problem we had from recent years: deer/vehicle collisions increasing, the increases possibility of disease transmission among deer or even spread to cattle, and deer feed lot predation costs going up.

It's never going to be perfect. The ranchers and farmers want to see deer numbers go down, hunters want to see them go up, and the G&F want them within a given number to make both sides happy. In a perfect world, that might happen, but I doubt we'll ever see it.

Until then, all we can do is hope for the best, and enjoy the opportunities we DO have in the outdoors in one of the last state's where a normal guy can go out and hunt seemingly limitless lands teaming with all sorts of wildlife.

[cbrooks]

excellent post tyler. Couldn't agree more on the lost of CRP land habitat being the main cause of the drop in deer population.

[harvey lee]

From what my local CO expalined to me, the herd is down due to the 3 past winters that have been very hard on the herd and also this past spring with the floods and wet weather which the Co said did more harm than the hard winters. We have had a loss in the deer herd big time but in the area we hunt with all the federal land that does not change and the majority of the land is woods, I do not blame the loss in crp at all. I am sure in the woodless area of the state, that did hurt. That of course varies much region by region.

It is true that in more than the past 6-9 years in 2G1 they have given out many doe tags to reduce the herd and we should have been fine until Mother nature changed the game in the past 3 seasons which has really hurt the herd. Good thing they allowed the harvest of the extra does as they would have died in the past few winters.

I have no issues with not getting drawn for a tag in the next 2 seasons but no need to worry as I will not apply with the herd size where it is.

I went back up to hunt the last 4 days and someone was looking down on me as I had a buck walk through the woods an hour after I climbed in the tree and I ended my rifle season. I was sure I was going to go without again this season. Now, next week, hopefully I can find a doe for the ML season and that could be a job yet. We did not fill our doe rifle tags and that is sad when one cannot do that.

Out of the 5 that we have hunting the rifle season, 1 deer was shot. Not picking on the GnF but they missed thier deer count big time. I am going to contact the GnF and ask if they would cut the license numbers again this next season by another 30-40% to give whats left a break. Then I will hope for good weather and maybe in 2-3 years we can have a rifle season that one does not have to throw so many tags away. At $220 a tag, I really like to fill what I have purchased or come close.

I checked one camera and in one photo, there were 7 coyotes. I highly doubt that any bounty will come as last year that was brought up and it was decided to not pay a bounty.

I believe that has been tried before and it did not do much to reduce the population but they did spend quite a bit of money. get the hide woth $40-$50 and that will help that cause.

Noone should whine if they do not pull a tag for a buck or a doe as the herd needs to recover. One cannot keep giving out tags when the numbers are so low. I personally would like to see them shut down our zone for a year and let the herd recover but I am sure they do not want to lose the revenue and many would whine they will not get a tag. Go elsewhere and hunt if one has to have a deer, not that tough.

Not sure on the winetr but I think it was like 96 that ND got so much snow. Our area herd went down from that hard wineter and we just did not hunt to let the deer recover. It was the right thing to do. Did not like that I could not hunt there but it was best for the herd to give tham a rest.

[KEN W]

Can't hurt to contact them.Like I said above.....they will get their ears burned when the Advisory meetings start next week.

Will be interesting to hear what they say about next year.If we have another tough winter with a lot of snow.The thing that will be interesting is.....how do these numbers compare with what they want for a population.

[harvey lee]

I would agree Ken that we do not know what the numbers are that the GnF would like to see. We do not know what they have recieved for complaints from crop damage and the insurance companies for car kills and damage on claims.

All one can do is suggest what they feel is correct for changes and then hope that for the majority, the needed changes will be made.

I do not believe we need to go back to the deer numbers of say 6-10 years ago as there were plenty if not too many deer in the herd then.

[cbrooks]

Article from Sunday's GF Herlad

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/221640/

I don't think the coyotes are to blame as much as some people but I think Brad Dokken said it right in his last paragraph.

[TylerS]

Yup, hard for some people to grasp that predators aren't the main reason behind lower deer numbers.

“It’s human nature to look for single-reason solutions to complex problems and we see that all the time,” North Dakota’s Kreil said. “It’s a lot easier to say the reason we don’t have as many deer is because the coyotes are eating them all than to understand the impact of two severe winters, loss of 2 million acres of CRP and we shot them hard.”

Exactly!

[brittman]

Not what the GNF said.....last winter had snow cover statewide.They said they were able to survey anywhere they wanted.

SARCASM Ken. Everyone knows that ND has been blanketed with snow the past two winters.

[brittman]

My brother was out in SW ND hunting mule deer. Saw very, very few deer in four days of hunting and settled on an average 4x4 deer. He said the number of does observed was low and very alarming.

[brittman]

Shooting extra doe deer ahead of a bad winter is not a bad thing because you are culling deer that may die anyways. Bring the population into alignment with the winter carrying capacity of the land.

That said, NDG&F should have had no excuse for lowering the number of licenses this fall if the population is really that low. On average ND deer hunters should have had an excellent season with the harvest essentially complete. Less CRP certainly hurts deer long term, but should also make them more vulnerable to hunters.

Bad winters ? Go back and read ND Outdoors from the late '70s. Winters in those years were absolutely horrid.

[harvey lee]

I do not know what the average harvest numbers are for 2G1 but I do know this year was the worst from what I have seen in the past 20 years for sure.

I guess we will have to wait too see the harvest numbers. From all the hunters I talked too, the harvest was poor at best.

We have an excellent area to hunt on the Sheyenne river and close to the National grasslands.

Most seasons, after weekend one, we do not see many hunters or hear many shots. This year, there were hunters and some shots even the last weekend.

I know it was poor enough that I will not be looking for a tag for next season at all and I am going to stay at home and hunt Mn locally. Time yo giver our area a rest no matter what the GnF states. I do believe the area ranchers have a better herd number than they do.

My local Co and I talked and he thought along with the GnF that the wet spring last spring along the river did more damage to the deer herd than the hard winter.

[harvey lee]

I closed the ND place up for the remainder of the year as we are done deer hunting.

It was a tough season at that with the fewest deer ever harvested or seen.

We had

4 archery tags--1 doe and 1 small buck shot

3 rifle tags-2 small bucks shot and the doe tag did not get filled.

3-Muzzleloader tags- 1 doe shot and the person and family member with a buck and doe tag decided to not hunt as they did not want to reduce the herd anymore than it already is. I was the dummy that filled the doe tag. Just could not throw away a $220 tag.

So we ended up filling 5 out of the 10 tags we had for this fall. Last year and this was about the first seasons in a long time that we did not fill all of our tags.

We hunted harder this fall than ever before just to get to 50%.

I hope this winter is an easy one and next spring is not so wet again. I also hope the GnF does not give out any doe tags for 2G1 next season to let these deer rebound. The herd numbers have to be below what they would like to see I have to believe.

[cbrooks]

Wish I would have posted this sooner. Here's some dates of the advisory board meetings around the state. It has phone numbers as well, specfic to each county. Its a good your for the NDG&F to get input from hunters from in and out of state.

http://gf.nd.gov/multimedia/news/2011/11/111101.html

Most of them start today