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Coach1310

Thoughts on NO HUNTING during the Rut..

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As I am sure many of you have read, the thread about the Zone 3 season in the Deer forum has been a hot button issue to say the least. The idea of moving the gun season out of the rut has come up there as well.

My thought about it is IF you move the gun season out of the rut, to protect and allow for MORE mature bucks, why should archery hunting be allowed?

I am curious as to what other archers think about this. I am a bowhunter and a gun hunter and take some issue with archery hunters who think the best solution is to eliminate gun hunting during the rut and allow bow hunting.

Seems like a double standard idea to me.... your thoughts???

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I am a bow hunter and a gun hunter as well. It isn't about archery hunting vs gun hunting, it is about the amount of hunters in the woods at one time, a time when bucks are most vulnerable. There is a lot of pressure on the deer during the gun season.

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I am also a rifle and bow hunter, it might be a double standard but I think a lot of it comes down to pressure, the effectiveness of bow vs gun and harvest numbers.

In 3.5 months 99K bowhunters registered about 20K deer, I think cars take out more deer then that during a given year.

388K Rifle hunters harvested 162K deer last year in a much shorter season. I also pretty sure I have heard before that 90% or 95% of the deer shot rifle season are shot opening weekend. Can anyone verify those number? So you can really see that the rifle does all the heavy lifting when is comes to population control.

If rifle hunters want to complain that is fine but they do most of the damage to the herd so they are responsible. Why not pick up a bow and try it for yourself, its not as easy as they can make it look on tv and you might just have a ton of fun doing it.

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I don't think there is a need to not allow bowhunters to hunt the rut. The number of deer they take is very small. I bow, firearm, and muzzleloader hunt if I am able to. I can't tell you the number of times I have been in a tree stand with my bow only to have a nice buck just out of range, but easily within firearm. The bow is a whole new ballgame. The majority of my mature buck sightings while bowhunting occur because of the rut. I think not hunting the rut would cause me to lose interest in bowhunting. Pretty much all October is scouting/hunting and strategizing my plan for the rut. The week before firearm season is as wild as any in the woods, I can't imagine not hunting it. I have been bowhunting for going on 14 years, I have connected once with a very nice buck, but have shot plenty of deer with the bow. However, I usually have at least one encounter/missed opportunity with a nice buck while bowhunting, that encounter usually occurs the first week in November. That one encounter a year is what keeps me buying a license, even though I'm sitting at obout a 5% success rate. Honestly, I think if bowhunting were to moved out of the rut, I would have a hard time justifying spending the time and money to sit in a stand and more than likely never get a chance at a nice buck.

Also, when the zone 3 survey came out, moving the season was the least popular option when given APR's and no crosstagging bucks.

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There were literally tens of thousands of people who were opposed to moving the gun season out of the rut in all of the states that did just that. Now... many of those people are happy as heck when they shoot their (much bigger) buck with their gun or their bow.

Whether or not it should be done will be debated passionately by both gun and bow hunters, but the impact of doing it is unequivocal.

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cancel the rut hunt and Sunday Hunting,

but allow scopes on smoke poles? brilliant! How could you not?

If thy people decided to close the rut to bows also.

I would only hope, beg and plead that more kids will get out

there and harvest a few billion tree rats during that time. laugh

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Take the firearms out of the rut, allow bowhunting, but impose an APR from Oct 25th- Nov 15th. Statewide.

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Take the firearms out of the rut, allow bowhunting, but impose an APR from Oct 25th- Nov 15th. Statewide.

Thats fairly reasonable. I like it!!!

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I think you'll see alot more buck activity after the peak of breeding. in minnesota we hunt lockdown, the worst time to try to kill a buck. other states don't hunt the peak to to allow them to breed. after the peak the activity starts up again of chasing and searching for unbred late esterous does a better time to hunt a buck, proven every year in iowa, wisc. and other states. it's the 400,000 (850,000 in sconnie) deer hunters pushing the deer, that makes the bucks vulnerable any time of year, even if we hunted them on the 4th of july. the best way to save a big buck is by not shooting a little buck.

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I think you'll see alot more buck activity after the peak of breeding. in minnesota we hunt lockdown, the worst time to try to kill a buck. other states don't hunt the peak to to allow them to breed. after the peak the activity starts up again of chasing and searching for unbred late esterous does a better time to hunt a buck, proven every year in iowa, wisc. and other states. it's the 400,000 (850,000 in sconnie) deer hunters pushing the deer, that makes the bucks vulnerable any time of year, even if we hunted them on the 4th of july. the best way to save a big buck is by not shooting a little buck.

I totally agree that the best way to save a big buck is to not shoot a little one. However, I don't agree that the majority of the gun season is during the "lockdown phase". The gun season typically includes this phase, but there's a whole lot of chasing going on after and besides that and it's during the gun season.

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Take the firearms out of the rut, allow bowhunting, but impose an APR from Oct 25th- Nov 15th. Statewide.

I like it!!!!

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Take the firearms out of the rut, allow bowhunting, but impose an APR from Oct 25th- Nov 15th. Statewide.

This plan would be perfect!

But if they did include bowhunting I would be ok with that.

just my .02

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I totally agree that the best way to save a big buck is to not shoot a little one. However, I don't agree that the majority of the gun season is during the "lockdown phase". The gun season typically includes this phase, but there's a whole lot of chasing going on after and besides that and it's during the gun season.

I also think that the rifle season contributes to the severity of the lockdown, all that shooting and pressure turn them nocturnal real fast, lockdown or not.

I can also get on board with a later gun season/apr bow season.

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Take the firearms out of the rut, allow bowhunting, but impose an APR from Oct 25th- Nov 15th. Statewide.

Just make it doe only before firearms opener, and I might be able to support it.

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Good to see some response.... from what I gather here, bowhunters say NO WAY to closing the season during the rut, but its OK if we close it to gun hunters???

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Good to see some response.... from what I gather here, bowhunters say NO WAY to closing the season during the rut, but its OK if we close it to gun hunters???

They do the majority of the shooting, so if you want to protect more bucks you have to alter the majority of the shooters.

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I like that idea as well. Move the firearm season back, do away with APR for firearms, but keep the APR for bowhunters between those dates. Not sure how you would gauge which one of the changes was working if changes were being seen, but I like the idea!

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They do the majority of the shooting, so if you want to protect more bucks you have to alter the majority of the shooters.

Why can't you alter ALL of the shooters?

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Of all these proposed changes, moving the rifle season out of the rut would be one I could agree to. If for no other reasons that for quite a few seasons now it's been almost uncomfortably warm with no snow on the ground.

However, I did read a story in the Pioneer Press that said Northern MN hunters wouldn't like it. Here's the quote:

"But such changes might not be embraced by hunters in other regions, particularly in northern and northeastern Minnesota.

Pushing the deer opener to mid-November wouldn't be popular in northern Minnesota, acknowledged Joe Cannella of the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association, based in Grand Rapids. Northern hunters already face cold conditions in early November. Moreover, many hunters favor hunting during the rut in the forest regions because it increases their odds of seeing a buck."

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why not limit the number of tags in the rut, put an early archery season in place and a late season? AZ game and fish moved our rut hunts 2 years ago, limited the number of tags and offered more tags in dec. I was on my rifle dec hunt and it was 3 degrees in the area where we were hunting. as far as does, the only doe tags in az are on the strip and the kaibab forest for youth. no adults are allowed to take does. granted our deer herds are much smaller than mn, it was complained about by the guys who only wanted to hunt trophy animals and were not in it for the meat. also our deer are a third the size of a midwest deer. heck my big lab is as big as an az whitetail.

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Why can't you alter ALL of the shooters?

Coach, Id guess that the majority of us bow hunters have already been altered. We choose to be there for a reason. For me as well as most bowhunters I know, pass on so many young bucks every year alot think we are stretching the truth. Fortunatly we are a very low percentage of the SHOOTERS.

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I hunt bow, rifle and muzzeloader. I PERSONALLY would not mind if the rifle opener was later in November, if it would help ME see more mature deer in the future. Bow during the rut wouldn't amount to any major impact on buck numbers because of low harvest rates IMO.

Now on the other hand looking at my fellow hunter and not myself, I would be against any more regulations that limit hunter opportunity in the name of ANTLERS!! My god, what is our great sport and tradition coming to when we want to fight each other and take options away from our own. If your or my goal is to increase antler size then we need to do it ourselves through restain and recruting others to do the same. It will take time, effort and frustation. Isn't that how we come to appreciate things we have more, through hard work?

I see these regulation proposals(later season/APR)as hunters whom are looking for the easy way, no work on there part, way of getting what they want. I know I may have insluted some whom shouldn't be, but it how I see it. I have heard the "its better for the herd" argument, underneth it all, it still come down to one main goal, larger antlers. That should not be the main reason to be a HUNTER, the HUNT should be!!

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Coach, Id guess that the majority of us bow hunters have already been altered. We choose to be there for a reason. For me as well as most bowhunters I know, pass on so many young bucks every year alot think we are stretching the truth. Fortunatly we are a very low percentage of the SHOOTERS.

I hear what you are saying and I know that the % is much lower for a bowhunter, BUT it seems foolish to argue we need to move the gun hunt out of the rut to decrease the pressure on mature bucks during their most vulnerable time, YET still argue that we should keep bow hunting open during that time. Seems to me like folks wanna have their cake and eat it too.

I will hunt both regardless of the seasons. I'm not near the avid hunter a lot of folks are, but any increase in opportunities to get out in the great MN outdoors is a good one in my opinion... just my feelings..

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Coach I wish I could understand your resoning for "having your cake and eating it to" but I dont. Surely if you bow hunt you understand the disadvantages we face. As others have said, how many times has that trophy been JUST out of bow range only to see him walk away without an attempt vs making a poor shoot and risk recovery. had we had a gun it was a for sure harvest.

To take away any serious chance we might have at harvesting a trophy deer by saying we cant hunt at this majical time is being prejuduce towards us bowhunters. When we harvest the amount of deer gun hunters do, I will concede to your point but I know as you do if you hunt with a bow that our odds are way lower. As an FYI I hunt all 3 weapons and have not filled a buck tag in quite a while. Could I? Heck yeah usually opening day of bow season, but unless it is THE ONE Ive picked out pre season to try for, there is now way I would end the pursuit and all that comes with it.

Some might say Im selfish for not wanting to give up my time in the woods. But like others have said in all of these simular topics about changes for hunting. We honestly are passionate about this sport and all that comes with it. Even if we do eat a few tags, we cant stop thinking and planning to just get the opportunity to be close to them. I think it was BB that related his experience with a 180 class buck (If not him i apoligize to the poster) but to feel what he went through at just seeing a deer of that caliber and not even drawing on it, but still being fulfilled is what drives us.

MAYBE and I mean "just" maybe i will understand why others dont want the satisfaction and excitment I get out of deer hunting. But because im passionate about it, please dont try and take it way from me because of it.

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